Warlock > Wizard

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Wizard, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Mystere Member

    I really like how you had to upgrade the comparison to 8 and 10 because you realize it's less ludicrous than 4 and 6. I guess 25% more DPS being the same "ballpark" is an easier steaming pile to sell than 50% more DPS and still being the same ballpark. I see what you did there; hat's off to you, sir. :)
  2. SacDaddy420 Active Member

    I'll be the voice of the "casual" this expansion, but anyone who knows of me knows I have just a lil bit of experience here....

    So lets get this back on track:

    FB is great when the stars align, all your clickies are up and you dont get fubared mid-cycle. Why dont you tweak this a bit so its a little more user-friendly (like FC)

    Manaburn is worthless, please give me a reason to waste the time casting this spell if I'm specced right-side (the superior side for dps).

    Livejazz and Le Clown like this.
  3. Treiko Active Member

    I would agree with the change to FB to make it more user friendly. Call me a newb, scrub, idiot, what have you... I stopped playing my wiz because as a non-raider, I don't think I should have to bust my *** that hard to be able to compete with other non-raider DPS.
  4. Wizard Member

    Alright, nice to see the thread appears to be back on track. So instead of us just saying it would be nice for Fiery Blast to be less prone to failure or more user friendly, let's get some realistic suggestions on how to actually improve it.

    I'll give a few changes that would be trivial to make and a few that would be a little more difficult to implement. I'm not suggesting all of these changes should be made but here are a few possible improvements to consider and get some feedback on.

    -Instant cast/recovery
    -Stun/Stifle/Interrupt and/or AoE immunity while Fiery Blast is active
    -Remove some of the damage restrictions from Fiery Blast (DoT ticks, Multi attacks, Procs, etc.)
    -Remove Spell Double Attack restrictions while Fiery Blast is active
    -Significant hate reduction or position drop(s) while Fiery Blast is active

    -If the caster dies before Fiery Blast completes instead of doing 0 damage it will inflict the damage that was stored prior to dieing on the original target

    -If the target Fiery Blast was cast on dies prior to Fiery Blast completing the stored damage instead effects another active target within a certain range of the original target

    -The first time you cast Fiery Blast it charges your damage for the 10-11 second duration (exactly how it functions currently) but instead of releasing the damage immediately after Fiery Blast expires, instead it stores the damage for X amount of time (similar to our Frozen Rain/Detonation increments) and pressing Fiery Blast a second time releases the stored damage instantly.

    Again, only some suggestions. I'm just hoping to see Fiery Blast's effort/risk vs reward more balanced with Focused Casting, I don't want to see it so easy or overpowered that the Warlocks have to come back and make their own new complaint thread. Not only are they better than me at complaining but there's at least ten times as many of them now after ToV.
  5. Mystere Member

    Of these, the removal of SDA, procs, flurry, MA, and tick restrictions, while improving the DPS of FB, does nothing to enhance the ease of use of FB. I doubt devs would consider these if the main goal is to reduce the 'failability' of FB.

    The dehate option seems to be a very nice idea, especially if it's a blue area-wide dehate that has a chance to proc with every damage spell during FB. It would need to be a running proc since adds typically don't hate you much until you dump several AOE's on them.

    This could alternatively be addressed by reducing the recast time of CB to match that of FB.

    The stun/stifle/interrupt/AOE immunity would cause me to soil my pants if wizards got them.

    I like the first idea here, but the latter idea seems to be unnecessary. I think you should have to eat crow if you miss-estimate whether your FB will be able to finish on your target.

    This doesn't seem to decrease the difficulty with FB, instead making it more complicated. And how would recast work? Does the recast timer start as soon as you press FB the first time or the second time? If it's the first time, you could easily abuse this spell and stack this thing using adds just prior to a named pull, then do an immediate double-FB for the massive OPed win on the named parse. If it's the second time, then you've just added a second or more to the casting and recast time of FB with no real improvement in DPS in most cases, to speak nothing of ease of use.

    FB mechanics need tweaking long before warlocks got a big shot of steroids this expac. Being the current underdog just makes it more relevant than last expac. :D
    Livejazz likes this.
  6. slica Active Member

    Nothing wrong with fiery blast imo, make it a instant cast would be cool to work better with clickie charm or extend the duration of the heirophant totem to 11secs so we get full benefit during fiery chain...main issues I have with my wizard is manaburn! Fix this god awful spell, I don't waste my time casting it, make it 12 pts of dmg per like lifeburn or make it a .5 cast anything... Sadly I don't have a finisher neck so not much to comment on that except I kno I wld be doin over 60 mil fiery's single target.... I guess that needs fixing? Or what shld we be doing 100mil fiery's st and 200mil on ae fights? Come on now ... Lets get to the real issue with sorcerers now! WTB more dehate abilities! Concussive blast on a 10sec recast! Improve our hate xfer to 25%?! Something! Anything! Lets get it done! Tired of dying during fiery blast chain! Ty
  7. Wizard Member

    Sadly you're missing the point friend, by your logic since Manaburn is also a big impressive looking hit nothing is wrong with it either.

    All things considered temps, recast cool downs, etc. You need to look at the TOTAL damage potential each of the sorcerers has the ability to generate during their respective chains and the difficulty of reaching that damage potential. Not which sorcerer has the potential for the coolest looking hit at the end of their chain.

    The point is the total damage potential during a Fiery Blast chain vs a Focused Casting chain and comparing the relative difficulty of reaching both of those damage potentials. Again, all things considered a perfect Focused Casting chain is not only much easier to execute with much less potential for failure than a Fiery Blast chain but it also has a much greater damage potential. This is the problem.

    That being said, yes Manaburn is barely worth casting anymore on a lot of fights and could certainly use some sort of boost. However I consider improving Manaburn much lower on the priority list, you could take Manaburn off of your hotbar and forget it exists, you can't take Fiery Blast off.
  8. Le Clown Active Member

    per usual, everything daray said +1.

    if someone could delete those Nynaev posts this might be looked at and considered. also, sac postd so someoen sticky this asap.
  9. Darkon Well-Known Member

    Parse from a raid encounter last night. Replaced names with classes. We were a bit shorthanded, so the disparity may be increased further.

    (x:xx) an aerakyn arch-dragoon: - Warlock 11862 | Ranger 7734 | Conjuror 6379 | Conjuror 5648 |

    Warlocks really are that much better. There are some where the lock does 14~m. It's mind boggling how good they are.

    Wizards should have some adjustments made to FB to make it more powerful. Whether it's counting dots ticks occurring during FB that were cast prior, or whatever the good wizards think they need. Given, that's pure aoe and probably the most gross example of the disparity.
  10. Voxom Member

    I was doing 10m+ on that encounter on Wizard. Never got a single set parsed to 14m dps like the warlock but I did have a couple 11m's on it when I got up to 145m+ FBs. Just pointing out that the 4 linked encounter should favor a warlock slightly, because I know the wizard would dominate a 4 mob unlinked encounter.

    Recently making the change from Wizard to warlock myself, I can say that Wizards could use a slight increase in FB whether that be a slight dmg or ease of use upgrade. I'm parsing even to slightly more on warlock without the craft able charm I had on my Wizard and without playing the class optimally (since I have only raided on it once so far).
  11. Konc3pt Active Member

  12. Ishmel Member

    I dunno about far above brigs. Or even above brigs at all. But sadly its growing more difficult to keep up with scorcs and preds now.
  13. Entropy Well-Known Member

    I'm fine with Warlocks coming out ahead on linked encounters as long as Wizards remain top on unlinked ones. That fits well with the way the classes were originally designed. (Now, ensuring that there's a fair balance of those two types of fights in game is another issue...)

    I don't think it would take that much to improve FB to the point where you've mitigated enough of the "fail conditions" that cause it to do substantially less than its full potential. Make it insta cast/recovery, make it count ALL damage that happens during its duration, and maybe give 50% stun/stifle immunity while it's up or something (I feel that 100% might be a bit too powerful.) Viola... you have an ability that is on par with FC as far as reliability and total zonewide damage potential.
  14. Nynaeve Active Member

    this crybaby thread still not locked? OF COURSE Locks parse well in the new Fabled Raids with TONS of trashmobs in them. If your Wiz parses badly on single targets, you probably aren't as good a Wiz as you think.
  15. Mystere Member

    Such anger. Such rage. Such desperation. I think your underlying angst in all of this is that they will nerf/balance locks, your inflated DPS prop will be knocked out from under you, and you will sink back into the deep, dark depths of mediocrity whence you came. Yes? :)
  16. Nynaeve Active Member

    You are right, I don't like threads that go like "Oh my Wiz isn't on top of the parse, but it's not my problem, it's the Warlocks' fault, lets make a thread talking about Warlocks to get them nerfed", also it is against Forum rules.
  17. Plinc Active Member

    how about the 2 of you meet up and have sex to get this settled.
    Livejazz and Le Clown like this.
  18. Wizard Member

    To all the Wizards out there who care about the current imbalance between the two sorcerers and would like to see something change sooner rather than later, start posting here.

    The Warlocks made their presence know by coming together on this forum and in return got the most over powered change to a class since launch, surely if we do the same expecting the Developers to balance the two classes is a more than reasonable request.
    Le Clown likes this.
  19. Nynaeve Active Member

    please tell how to execute a perfect Focused Casting chain, so I can understand what you are talking about.
  20. Mountbatten Well-Known Member

    I don't think you will understand anything no matter how much it's explained to you.