When I first started my Warlock on day 1, a warlock was just a wizard that was poison based instead of ice. I think the current taunt/ agro system was based on this. When they swtiched us over to AOE based, it threw us into a game not designed for that hence the off mobs killing us every other battle.
LOL warlock master of the AE damage...... :smileyindifferent: (That's never what i had in mind when i started this class.) The facts: -Warlcoks are *NOT* master of AE damage, we are outdps by necro and conjuror (sometime by berserker and swash too or they are pretty close to our DPS, wizzards are also close to us in that departement). -There is *NO* need for an AE specialized class in this game (maybe aside for some trash clearing, gratz us........) and even if there was conjuror/necro will do it more efficiently than us (more DPS and far less aggro issue). So if we let the trash clearing aside whats left? Well we have either solo mob (we all know what our single target DPS is compared to other class) or 1 big mob with plenty of HPs linked with some adds (far less HPs), for example elemental warder, overlord or Venekor in HoS. So let say for example the fight itself lasts 3-4 mins after 30 or so seconds all the adds are dead and we are back into the solo mob situation (so in fact we have a 30 seconds AE fight followed by a 2min30 solo mob fight, this is in my opinion why there is *NO* need for an AE class). -So to summarize warlocks have been given a role that is *NOT* needed (or very little) and are *NOT* even the best in that given role........:smileyindifferent: -Warlocks are *NOT* fun anymore to play. We die way more often than any other class and it's not whatsoever rewarding, i wouldnt mind dying more often that the others if i was toping parses (somehow a risk vs reward thing). -Quite frankly why bring a warlock to a raid when u can replace it with a wizzard, a summoner or an assassin or or or....... The solutions?: It has been said by some people that if the tanks were given more AE taunts it would help us. I dont think its the solution sure we will die less often, but quite frankly right now provided a zerker is tanking i can pretty much go all out on AE fights and still will always get outdps by summoners. I know what im going to ask is quite unrealistic but one can dream. I would like a complete revamp of our class, the AE role you gave us is not needed (the purpose of the class has already been comlpetely changed once when DoF went live so there is no logical reason for not doing it again). Peolple may reply "betray to wizzard then!!!!", well if a dev ever states that our class is fine and that nothing will get changed i sure will or swap my main to a conjuror but until then i find it very risky to betray my fully mastered warlock to a wizzard and realize that in a few months warlocks will get fixed.
I agree 100%, an AE specialist is not a viable class in this game. SOE created this mess with LU13, why can't they fix it?
Aoe fights do come handy for us. I dont like our dps. But we pretty close to being the best aoe burning class there is. Ever fought Chel'Drak. Aoe god Ever try Matron AOE Good. Mutagenic is becoming AOE good. I love your spells as they are I mean Apoc CRIT 4,000 on 5 mobs x6 ticks.....oo baby (more with raid debufs) 120,000 in 6 seconds. Yes agro is wacked, but its wacked for wizards as well. What i truhfully think needs helped is possibly taking a few seconds off all major spells. Void abs. Void Dist etc etc and no one say AA's agi is kinda the suck..... Str and Wis FTW Plus whenver Faydark comes out...theres complete seperate AA lines for your class specific....ya never know there could be the god mode for warlocks...
a basic issue i see with the warlock class is power consumption, single spells consume way to much power, , a reduction in power costs, a signifigant reduction , would be a good idea. another problem i see is casting times....most are too long , an effective cast time cut of 50 percent would be a good idea.
I have been playing my warlock since 3/05 .. ahh the good ole days...I still have my "I survived LU13" shirt. I m still rebuilding after the update when they messed around with the stun effects... and now.. after reading this thread and on how long it has been that any dev has updated on this .. I know you are all busy with other issues i really understand .. So in the meanttime i have been tradeskilling and playing my now MANY alts.. Oh and for the record.. I agree with all the above suggestions with exception to the ones that suggest that warlocks are not needing some loving.. I dont like playing a class that is always chosen last in a raid .. I mean it brings up too many old feelings of gym class when no one would pick me in red rover..(really, the game would just end.. I'd be the last one on the other side..)/sniff
hello ijust wanted to say i agree with most of the poster here. My main is a 70 wizzie but i do have a 53 warlock. I do think nil crystals need to be taken out, agro control needs to be still looked at even after update 27. Also your single target dps i think falls short. It may be b/c i am used to ice comet but i think a minor boost your single target is needed. Curse line, yup useless...maybe make that into a new single target nuke?? hopeing the Devs do see this b/c whats the point of having something like ubah raid dps when u can never use it?? at the very last realize that yes warlock may have the spells to have great aoe damage but ummm there isn't and spell Ca or feature that will let them do that dps.... deaggro or better aoe tuants maybe?? warlock do need a looking at hope i helped.
Problems: 1) Aggro. We need something more or different than boon, concussive and vulian. I would say tanks might need something better, but this is only a sorceror problem, especially warlocks. 2) Single Target DPS: We need Dark Infestation DoT effect to stay in place even after broodlings spawn, boost the pyre and shadow lines dps and make soul blister line more power efficient. 3) Nil Crystal component requirements are simply not fair. Either make the curse line useful enough to cast, have our maelstrom debuff drop them or scrap the whole idea. I left about a month after DoF -- 11months gone because of the nerfing of solo abilities, changing our entire class into something different -- AoE specialists and then not giving us the tools to survive because of these changes. Fix it or change it back. I'm only back to visit with friends online because I moved and I'm too lazy to switch to a different class -- I want my class fixed! 'Warlock' sounds better than 'wizard' to me, noxious is better than elemental and Necro or Conj's aren't optional to switch to -- and I don't want to have to depend on a pet just to have consistently good dps w/out dying on raids and solo well. That all being said, if we are the AoE gods ... why don't we top out on AoE encounters? For being 'T1 dps' we sure have serious issues keeping us from fulfilling that role. I can understand this if we were in beta, but consistently ignoring and neglecting a class severely sucks for paying customers. Seriously it doesn't seem like it'd be too hard to fix and people are not asking for much.
^ That is good to hear. Am I alone in thinking that what would REALLY help Warlocks keep aggro down is if they changed the mechanics for AoE damage to represent less hate? As in maybe 1 point of AoE damage to represent 0.5 point of hate. I have no problem staying alive if I use single-target spells. But that's not what Warlocks are for. Amethystt of Befallen
Not sure if this has been stated or not, there's soooooooo much text to read though, I kinda read through the first page, and glanced through the 2nd two.. It seems the general concensus is over dmg output and role.. Which I'm not knocking, but everyone's overlooking one MAJOR issue (or at least a -MAJOR- issue imho).. Take a look at our agi line in our talents... more importantly the 2nd one down.. It's focus is daggers.. I mean what the hell? Our prismatic is a staff yet they give us something for daggers? So I'm supposed to give up my prismatic all for the sake of not wasting 4 AAs? At first I thoguht our familiar spell was problemized the same way, but acctally I'd prefer the gargoyle guy for the hate reduction since raids is the end game focus... but that still leaves me my original thought on the talent.. Now I know there's gonna be some people who will construe up some kind of totally whacked out reasoning about how terrible the prismatic is and why they don't even wield it and I'm sure it'll cause some people to say "wow that's so uber" but seriously, alot of us -are- wielding our prismatic and a talent based on daggers that is forced on us (If were to get the resuse reduction and casting speed increase) is rediculous. -- Xyanthar 61 Warlock Permafrost Last Bastion (Graphical sig coming soon)
Hello, since i was included in the beta of EoF, i thought it might be useful to send to the Devs our plead for some changes, here are the ideas i thought of sending, Please give me your input in order i can forward it to the Devs... (Let's hope they will listen to us better than in this forum): - Nil Crystals: Please remove them as components for our spells, they are useless and no other class need such things for their activity. If you wish to keep them as they are a roleplay component, you can transform them as a mana/life battery with a long reuse timer. - Damage: After a difficult birth (we were overweak before LU7) and an overpowered teenage (we got overtweaked up to LU13) we got transformed to AEnukers with DoF. Since this revamp our role has been redefined but we haven't recovered a part of our dps that would allow to match our wizard cousin, even on group mobs where Conjurors still get past us. At least a good increase of our nukes and a slight one of our AEs would be most welcomed. - Aggro: I dunno if 1 dmg = 1 hate point but some aggro rework would be most welcomed to get less aggro. If you have any idea, correction to make, please say so i will try to make our voice heard.
Really think that DPS and Deagro need bumped. Since they cant give a tank more Agro Taunts.. They need to add a moe passive deagro to our aoes ... our make our hate transfer more worthwhile... Take AA's to help hate is Bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] No way should we be foreced to do that to stay alive...but ya ... Something needs to be done
I figure I should probably throw my two bits in here. DPS While I enjoy the volume of DPS the warlock kicks out, I do think there should be a marginal increase on a few fronts. Alone, I feel we do more than enough DPS. However the problem would seem it's far too easy for a Conj or Necro to out parse us in an AE situation. For me to come out top on the dps parse (Which does happen very frequently), I need to chain cast literally everything I have with 100% accuracy. Currently I have at least 9 masters, and everything else at Adept 3. I suppose what's giving me this impression, would be the up-and-coming Conj and Necro's that do not have the calibre of gear my character is currently sporting. I'm having problems keeping ahead of Summoners that not only have lower stats, but less upgraded spells. Again it goes back to the problem that's been mentioned in this thread several times concerning the difficulty we have maintaining T1 damage against T2 classes. Hate, So much Hate To maintain the DPS level I'm able to acheive currently, I need to have an absolutely perfect raid setup. This is likely easier for me then most as I'm a guild leader. It has become absolutely needed to have "Amends on Zahne", along with the Coercer and even Troub hate reduction stacked on me. At this point it almost feels like Warlocks walking into a raid could be compared to challenged children jumping on a shortbus. Everyone has to cater to us so we achieve the numbers they expect, and we end up becoming more of a hinderance then what you might call desireable. To illustrate a point, I will still pull hate while using: - Mastered Amends - Hate reduction robe - Hate reduction pet - Two hate reduction spells - Coercer hate reduction I don't even get to make USE of Boon's hate reduction, as it's become very apparent it cancels the effects of Amends. I was pulling hate on the first or second cast each time. Without all of these nice hate reduction perks I receive from my position within my guild, I would be unable to place within the top 5 of most any raid I would attend. This fact is reinforced each time I join raids with other guilds, where the raid leaders tend to be less experienced how to configure the raid around a Warlock. Again, I'm not sure raid leaders *should* have to configure the raid around us. We should be helpful to the general raid atmosphere, not create more work. Utility, Nil Crystals and the sort Call me crazy but I think each class should have some form of utility. Historically in EQ, Wizard type casters have always had some form of teleportation spell. Currently Wizards are able to Evac groups, however we are not. I would be perfectly fine with this if you could guarentee we would bury them in DPS consistantly. To have balance between the classes, we should at the very least be on par with the Wizard. Nil Cyrstals are absolutely annoying, and serve no real purpose other than a timesink. Moving our debuff to an AE format with the ability to farm several crystals at once was a step in the right direction. Honestly though, they end up being an annoyance more than anything. Summoners have oodles of Utility, however are still somehow matching us in parses or in some cases beating us all together. I have a feeling this is one of the main reasons you see quite a few angry Warlocks posting in the forums. Summary While I do think we're doing as much damage as we should be, there are a few classes that are doing a little more then you would expect them to. I'm not a fan of having anyone nerfed, but the only alternative is to adjust us by giving the Warlock a little more juice in the damage department. We are noticably weak, and could not be considered T1 dps on single targets .. however do very well on AE encounters. I think the bottom line here is either a few people need to get nerfed, or we need to get boosted. We will likely see no visible changes to our class until after the EoF expansion as there are a number of changes coming for everyone. It's really useless to bicker over information provided by each player in this thread. Each person has a completely different setup they're using, and it's impossible for us to really determine what problems this class has by looking at our own characters. The information I've provided above details my experiences with my character as I have it setup. AA, Gear being used, Order spells are casted, and general Quality level of spell will greatly effect the bottom line each character will experience. Hopefully this information will be of some use when looking at this class and making changes that will create a more enjoyable experience overall.
Updated first post....edit is in yellow. Seems they did most of what was asked in this thread in one way or another. I am a very happy warlock right now.
Yes, they made some nice improvements, especially those last minute changes to the warlock AAs. It's good to see things moving in a positive direction for a change.
Anything on our damage output with mezzed encounters? I'd like to see our AE-damage diverted to the non-mezzed mob. It seems unfair that our big AE spells are only working for 1/3rd while they still consume the same amount of mana...
A nice thought, but this will never change. This is more of a tactical issue on how to work with mezzers in your group. On a seperate note, is it a bug that the Boon line breaks any other hate transfer or % decrease/increase hate gain ability? The power feed feature for the target and caster is great, but it is a shame that we can only use it when we are the only toon in the group with a hate transfer or other % hate modifier.
The day that raids ask for both a wizard and a warlock il be a first. both classes need love Message Edited by Larossa on 11-21-2006 01:00 AM
