I wasn't even gonna bother replying to you baccus but your cluelessness warrants some clearing up. Firstly your guild is not even a top 5 raid guild on the server, let alone worldwide, notice how the most of us here are in top 5 worldwide raid guilds? You are bragging about doing well over 1kdps in lyceum? Haha I do well over 5k sometimes in there on my warlock and average is over 2k, but guess what? That is still not top. You raid dps must be really low, are your other members doing like 600 dps? Now you mention a few zones where warlocks are a bit less ****, how about I mention some other zones ok? You guys started HoS yet? Warlocks are near the top in labs? Either of the Ascent dragons? Harla Dar? You even have access to DT yet? Hurricanus? MO? Princes? Chel'Drak? Matron? So you feel good about yourself when you say you feel like a god - the fact that you say you drag your guild (since you are the guild leader) into poets sounds like you are a spoilt guy in raids, spoiling yourselves with buffs while the others are not as well off eh? Let me quote you specifically here. You said 'And if you every want to go play and feel like a true god drag you guild back and do Poet's Palace: The return (sp)....'. I bet it's not just me that believes you are simply there for yourself to top the dps with what you plan and set for your guild and just spoiling your own self. Quote: 'Raiding guild that do not see the worth of a warlock have never raided correctly with one.' Usually people who say that are in raid guilds that are actually good. Your achievements please? I wouldn't be talking that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in your position. Quote: 'We... make some encounters almsot trivial.' You got brigand and warlock mixed up all of a sudden? Quote: 'try a pally as tank with a warlock for the named in labs with the huge dmg shield.' A wizard would be much better suited for that role. You don't even have 95% masters? Do the other guys you raid with even have any masters? When we compare, we base it off even buffs and all of us having at least 95% masters. How about I come to one of your raids and see if I can pull aggro? I'll bet you 280pp that I do. If I don't, then you will only have to pay me 100pp, fair? We can both just have a troub. You have aria proc buff, precision of the maestro and the deaggro, I just have the attack speed and deaggro buffs. If you could come to a contested raid with us or 99% of named mobs in this game for that matter, you would see how **** you were - you would not be able to touch my assassin in dps. That's right - my assassin would be your god. Just because your others members either suck, aren't as well geared and mastered, put in an amateur group setting environment, or a combinatino of all that, does not make an even comparison. Not only that, in the end you still only name two t7 raids and one t6 raid where your other members are simply gimped, and mostly likely by your own doing as you are the guild leader. I am not picking on you btw so don't feel all offended, just pointing out your bias and your beliefs without reference to what you actually conceive. Good luck farming your t6 raids though just so you can feel better about yourself. Edit: I just read some of your other posts and realised I just wasted my time replying to you. Time for bed, this is enough owning for one day. Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 08-09-2006 02:13 AM
It's funny, Banshye, looking back at those old posts. Notice how Lockeye contradicts himself in his second post in trying to explain further why he believes it is useful - he basically implied why the spell is useless in his explaination. What's not so funny is how these issues were brought up many many months ago and still stand today. Trust me Lockeye, I have done WAY more testing than you, not only from your last post here until now, but even before then. Lockeye also forgot something when he said how the seal buff wields a better dps increase than a int and str buff, did he forget that that buff increases every single class's dps and hence the whole group whereas the seal buff 'supposedly' only affects casters? His % comparisons were only of a solo player as well. These are the same guys who post parses where rangers and troubadors beat assassins and conjurors. Do you guys have any grip on your own game? I am really believing their so called server parses are flawed. There are a lot of bots which are warlocks, all they do all day is kill groups of down arrow mobs with devastation. Hence those fights would be short and the dps parse high - I mean they only cast one spell. Therefore the server parses would have a relatively higher parse of warlocks due to these kind of discrepancies. I bet this kind of example is where a lot of the flawed parses are coming from. Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 08-09-2006 01:34 AM
Hmmm. Lots of interesting things posted. Im too low level to have the huge issues everyone else does. One thing that did strike me is the comment about Warlocks being "a DOT class". Boggle. I bought the game during release. It wasnt. Have quit and come back three times. Hasnt been a DOT class whenever Ive been around. Not sure about Prima guides. I never buy them because they are always wrong. The devs have put out plenty of times that Warlock and Wizard are the main nuking classes, with Warlocks being poison and disease, and Wizards being Fire and Cold. Warlocks being AE came during the combat revamp I believe, but I wasnt around when it happened so Im not positive. I do know that I DONT want the Warlocks to be a DOT class. Thats Necros job IMO. Mal
The Warlocks AE focus came September 13th, 2005. Prior to that, we were the best nuking class in the game. But DOTs have always been a part of the Warlock game and continue to be... after all, what is apoc but an AE dot?
some of you guys have valid posts but the othere please keep the nonsense and bickering out of this thread. This is here to help the warlock class.
Yo, I was just pointing out how wrong in every way that person was and backed it up with good reason. It just ended up longer cos there were so many things said that were either wrong or biased. Don't see anything wrong with that :smileywink: I could have just said what Vic said yea haha. I need to learn how to ignore misinformed people. Regarding what I said would be a good change for our aggro earlier. Now that I think about it more, increasing the deaggro on vulian is not going to do much unless it is made like 10k hate reduction on everything else in the encounter. That is not possible. Hence a straight hate reduction or transfer is the only way to go here. The dot damage on scourge of shadows needs to be increased, simple as that. Right now it is just not possible for a warlock or ranger to top the dps. I totally agree with most when they say it just depends on the player behind the character, but only for all the others dps classes - assassins, brigands, swashies, conjs, necros, wizards - all of them have a chance at getting top depending on the upgrades, buffs, situation and player. Whereas for warlocks and rangers, it is just not mechanically possible to do this. They totally screwed the t1 and t2 status of the dps classes, so the only way they can redeem it imo is to have all of them be a viable choice for a dps position, and hence buffing warlocks and rangers in some way. Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 08-09-2006 02:50 PM
my opion on a summary so far We need: A passive deagro or agro transfer for both Wiz and warlock (what ever is done to 1 class has to have some balance to the other class) A bit more damage to our dots, make them worth casting A bit more deagro on our new AE deagro spells Dont make us to be so relient on other classes to reduce the amount of agro we generate, there are very few troubs now. While we are at it, can you please please give some loving to bards, my warlock has been in maybe 3-5 groups in last 3-4 months with a troub, there are none, and the ones around want to leave cause there not fun to play anymore. Our guild has been trying for over 1 YEAR to get a troub to take on raids, they are that rare and we still dont have one..... Nukette 70 Warlock Najena
I agree that some sort of hate-transfer might actually give us some real innate value in a group or raid. As much hate as we generate, instead of that being our deficiency, let it be our utility. With a hate-transfer, the harder a warlock works the better the tank would hold aggro.
I thought more on it and believe the best would be to have the familiar have a larger hate reduction rather than just 2.5%. Around 35% would be a good value and wizards would benefit as well. This way no spells need to shifted etc to compensate for a better deaggro or passive deaggro/transfer. 99% of sorcs use a 1hander, hence everyone would be getting the hate reduction from the familiar anyway, the rest such as increased crit chance can be removed as I'm sure any right minded sorc would want hate reduction more than anything else. Having it as the first AA point, sorcs can have deaggro even at the lower lvls. No spells need to be changed to a hate transfe/reduction making this the best and easiest option. Also, this way, it would not a be all end all deaggro either, as you would have to protect the pet from dying otherwise all the hate would be attributed to you. Kind of like summoners except our pet does not do anything else.
Well a pally amends master 1 is 41% hate transfer as I recall... so if we could approach that with a reverse-amends, even if it didn't actually stack with amends, I'd be giddy with delight. Your 35% sounds right to me.
It's absurd that sorcerors are reliant upon paladins/troubadors in order to even begin to approach the dps many other supposedly T2 dps classes are producing--summoners/brigands/swashies--without dying. As a sorceror without a troub or a pally's Amends, expect to die often, and, without a troub, to be outdamaged by classes with far better mitigation/utility/hate transfer than you. And no raiding guild worth their salt is going to place a pally in the dps group for the sake of a single caster, nor should they be forced to. As a matter of fact, I issue a challenge: Can anyone give me a logical and sincere answer as to why anyone would choose to play a class with no armor, no pet, no evac/tracking/feign death/safefall/rez, etc (i.e. sorceror), in order to be outdamaged by classes that enjoy these luxuries? We need: 1) Passive Deaggro--for warlocks, a percentage of our hate "disappears into the void/nether region" or whatever. i don't care what lore you use to explain it, but it's time we had a passive deaggro like scouts enjoy. The deaggros which have been provided are wholly inadequate and casting them eats away at your dps. 2) Decrease range in spell damage. The min-max dmg on some spells nears 40%. When your Master 1 Void Distortion hits for 2300 (less than Dark Distortion Master 1 pre-LU13), you feel like hanging up your robes. 3) Scrap Dark Infestation. You guys tried, you really did. But this spell has never worked properly. Ever. Broodlings break mezzes on raids and account for such a portion of our damage that being forced not to use them kills our dps. My suggestion is to make it a long duration, single-target dot that hits for 500-800/tick for 45 sec's with a 1 minute recast. Our only real dots (war pyre and scourge of shadows) are weak sauce compared to the auto-attack damage scouts are producing with haste/dps buffs. 4) Scrap Nil crystals. At 70/70/50 and a full-time raider, I don't have six hours a week to dedicate to farming gray mobs. No other T1 dps class has to farm anything in order to be there. The excuse about power is no longer valid, as an equivalently equipped wizard runs out of power no sooner than a warlock. 5) Make Curse Lines worth casting. 800 hp/pow reduction to a raid mob? Are you serious? I could go on, but this is a good start. I just seriously resent having to bend over backwards in order to try keeping up with classes in terms of damage who knowingly enjoy far, far, far more utility than warlocks. Before you judge, I have a 50 brigand and would love any of his utilities on my warlock that scouts seem to have come to take for granted (like tracking/safefall,etc). At some point, devs said they wanted a member of every class to be essential to a raid. I'm not certain of our essentiality in light of damage comparisons with other classes who bring far more to raids than us. -Kai
If your talking about me i meant to say i out parse everyone on most the trash fights with 1600 dps etc.. and the 800-1kdps on names was just general im not top parse for names
Did I say I never topped a parse? I said with so many buffs on me and the rare occurence of a huge AE encounter, warlocks do not top the parse often enough, if at all if say a conjuror is not slacking and equally buffed, for a t1 dps class focused on AE (the idea should be scrapped altogether). And overall, it is a mediocre class in comparison to the other dps classes except ranger. I am not gonna go into more detail just for you, go and read my other posts in this thread. One liners do not look good for your argument, cos you know you will just get owned if you post something like that? Btw my worst parse would be higher than your best parse so I wouldn't be talking too much [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Topping the parse when everyone else is asleep or simply amateur does not count mate. Can you tell me how many raids you have done and what you are basing your info on? I am basing my proof on every single t7 raid in the game. The only argument so far from people like you is 'ooo I top Lyceum trash mobs, hence you don't know how to play!' Lastly, my post and Vic's post weren't even directed at you, but now you equally look like a fool. P.S Well said Kairos and good addition to this thread. See how posts with backed up info are ftw? Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 08-09-2006 08:06 PM
Then your conjurors and necros suck, because they should be doing 2-3k on the trash, and 1.6k is nowhere near enough to beat them.
No joke, I think I beat our necro 1x in Lyceum last week - he must have fallen asleep at the keyboard.
So... I'm gonna give my ideas on what needs to be done briefly. Now I know I am at a dangerous crossroads by suggesting these specifically as the devs might have a sort of egotistical belief where they would think 'as if we would be listening to what needs to be done from a player' as they would rarely change what players suggest specifically and usually go the opposite way. So I hope I won't be regretting this later on but it really needs to be done. My reasons are pointed out in my first post in this thread if you want to know them. I would also love to have the 'AE specialist' idea removed completely as it is flawed in many ways and basically a wizard like class but dealing with poison and disease. Some main differences would be ice nova and apocalypse of course. War Pyre's damage needs to be increased slightly. A 450 initial hit and 250 dmg dot at lvl 70 and master lvl is pitiful. Simple as that. Void Distortion's recast time needs to be reduced to 9s. Soul Blister's recast needs to be reduced to 3s, down from 4s. Dark Infestation's dot needs to continue once the broodlings have procced. Nebula's cast time needs to be reduced to 2.5s and made a blue AE. Void Absolution needs to have a 3s cast time. Netherous Realm's cast time needs to be reduced to 1s and duration increased to 45s. 30s is too short for a proactive spell which requires other spells to land and the fact warlock spells have long cast times, you do not get many spells off in 30s. Scourge of Shadows' dot dmg needs to be increased moderately. The Seal and Curse of Isolation lines need to be totally revamped and changed into something else. I still haven't thought of any really striking ideas and any ideas from people would be welcome. A lot of you might be thinking these changes would be overpowering - they will be not, believe me. A lot of them are minor changes and warlocks really need these benefits at this point in time. These changes prescribed above would really help and might give the class some credibility for once. These changes are coming from a warlock whos experience has involved every single raid mob in the game with the exception of Chel'Drak and Matron as I retired my warlock during the AP and playing it casually of course. I know my assassin would still be topping dps on average with these changes but the gap would be thinner. Regarding hate, as I mentioned above, I believe the familiar sorcs get from their first AA should reduce 35% of the sorc's hate if it is up. It would be a good value and wizards would benefit as well. This way no spells need to shifted etc to compensate for a better deaggro or passive deaggro/transfer. 99% of sorcs use a 1hander, hence everyone would be getting the hate reduction from the familiar anyway, the rest such as increased crit chance can be removed as I'm sure any right minded sorc would want hate reduction more than anything else. Having it as the first AA point, sorcs can have deaggro even at the lower lvls. No spells need to be changed to a hate transfe/reduction making this the best and easiest option. Also, this way, it would not ba a be all end all deaggro either, as you would have to protect the pet from dying otherwise all the hate would be attributed to you. Kind of like summoners except our pet does not do anything else.
Agree with all of them. Seal Line Idea.. Replace with.. Curse of the Carrier. A group Augmentation that infects the group with a <Insert Disease name here> Disease, all group members wil become carriers of the disease and will spread a harmful form of the disease to surrounding encounters. Target : Group AE. Concentration: 1. Casting Time: 3s Recovery Time: 0.5s Recast Time: 10s Duration:Until Cancelled Effect Radius: 50m Effect: Enemey encouters within a 2m Radius of any of the casters Group members will be infected with <Insert Disease name here>, lasts until the enemy encounter is out of the 2m range. Reduces Health of Target by 30 -40 instantly and every 4 seconds. Just an Idea but it would fit in well with our class, be unique, be easy to code (just add an AOE surrounding every group member of very small range that is always on) and get rid of a redundant spell for one that is beneficial. Not had many thoughts on the Curse line yet though :smileysad:, only thing I can come up with is some form of fatigue spell that increases a mobs casting times (because the have been infected :smileyvery-happy: ) *Edit* one of the Smilies was screwed :smileytongue: Message Edited by Soul_Dreamer on 08-09-2006 10:11 AM
Parses are relative guideposts, nothing more, nothing less. Depending on your raid composition and group setup, they really don't prove a whole lot, can vary widely, and posting them here as evidence of much of anything is useless. To keep on topic, Xede has a pretty solid grip on the issues. Nil Crystals are an obstacle to performance that I have never understood. The implication is that we have so much power that we have to cash in these little "rewards" to use it. I go on crystal farming expeditions every now and again to stock up a few hundred of them, just so I don't have to deal with that annoying little "Missing Component" message when you try to set off Gift or Pillaging. They need to be done away with, period. The Pillaging line is a good idea that has been poorly implemented. You must have a Master quality version of it for it to be worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and even though I do, I always find myself wondering if I am not wasting the 2.6 seconds it takes to cast it. If you are going to insist on us having this spell, make it at least as good as an Adept 3 Ruinous Heart from a necro... (Pillaging feeds you 27 power a tick at M1 versus 63 per tick for a heart at Adept 3) As far as raid DPS goes, the steps my guild has to take to insulate me from ripping off an extremely good main tank are absurd, especially when compared to the relative ease that our Brigs, Swashbuckler, Necros and Cojurors have managing theirs. I usually raid in a group with a Troubadour de-aggro, a Paladin amending me, and a cross raid de-aggro from a Coercer, and in Labs, I will still get killed if I try to stretch my dps out. It's dumb. And if I didnt have a year + of learning how to raid a Warlock, and trying to squeeze the most out of the class under my belt, they would probably not waste the effort trying to make it work. We see the posts from new warlocks and warlocks that have just begun to raid almost daily, and I feel badly for anyone trying to learn how to play one on raids from scratch. Especially when some of these other classes can produce a quarter or a third more DPS on raids, while accruing a fraction of the hate, while not nearly as "protected" in the raid as I am. Null Caress and Vulian Nullification do not work nearly well enough and are arguably a joke. While I have saved myself a time or two by using these spells as ditches, it was probably as much luck as anything. I see posts from some of the top warlocks in the game here on a regular basis. People that have been playing Warlocks for a very long time, and have a ton of experience in raid situations. These players play the class as well, or better than anyone, and yet their experiences are the same. For Warlocks with less experience, it must seem really difficult, and this needs to be addressed.
