Earthshine@Vox wrote: 1. they got rid of fame because it was making ppl hide and evac on sight to avoid losing fame 2. bg had so very little to do with the decline of pvp. look how pvp is dying off now that it isn't raining tokens in wf anymore. bg isn't even a factor. ppl were flooding zones for open pvp and bg's were still up. 3-6 meh the problem with pvp is the players. might as well face it. the wf token nerf just proves it. when it was raining tokens, ppl would be out in cl pvp'ing all the time. now, some ppl show up to knock the towers down and then call home. oh and btw, /duel would just be fun. some of us still try to get some of the F word out of eq.
i distinctly remember pvp increasing in tempo when they got rid of fame loss. first, when they made a loss/gain range. back in the very beginning when you could gain/lose from anyone, it was EvacQuest. when they made the range, it got better. less evaccing etc. ppl got even more bold when fame loss went away completely. fame is bad. really. ppl talk about risk and reward but when you look past all that crap it just makes ppl scared to leave immunity. bg's are a good thing. instead of wandering around hoping i come across a pvp fight i can Q up and get into a fight. a lot of ppl, me included want to pvp when we set out to pvp. we don't like running around for 20 minutes to get in 1 little fight. bg gives us options. it's better fighting than the /80-89 omg need heeeeelp at wfp zerg-leech farm too imo. the problem is the players. no matter how you slice it. yeah ppl showed up for 15 tokens ata time, but they still pvp'd like all day. so yeah, without the constant rain of tokens, the ppl have decided that it isn't fun or worth it to go pvp. no, you can not duel in your guild hall. in reply to your quote: yeah you can go pvp when you want to, but that doesn't mean any of your opponents are gonna pvp when you want to. i keep hearing about how great fame was, but it just wasn't. back in the day, when i got dreadnaught, i could hardly find a fight. ppl just ran from my title for fear of losing fame. eq pvp is already a track meet w/o fame loss. the big cluster funk zerg pits point out the higher titles too. the higher title ppl can typically be seen out the out-skirts of the zerg, hitting the ppl they can get fame from with range attacks, and lurking far enough back that they can get away if things go south and they might actually lose fame. i do not support this kind of chicken spit fame humping. i drafted a rank system that i think would work great and make ppl want to fight. maybe i'll go find it.
how about a rank system ? 10 ranks: rank 1: only say 5 ppl per faction can have it rank 2: like 15 ppl can have it rank 3: more rank 4: more rank 5: more rank 6-10: unlimitted, these ranks are gained after getting so many kill points killing a rank 1 is worth 100 kill points. kill a rank 10 and he's worth 10 points. etc. once you aquire enough points to rise above rank 6, it becomes an ongoing race. ie: only 5 ppl rank 1. the top 5 point holders are rank 1. no point/rank/fame decay. but, if you get passed up in points, you drop a rank. too easy. rough draft complete. also, if 2 ppl kill a rank 1, they split the points. 50 pts per. if 3 ppl kill a rank 1, 33 pts per. round down to the nearest number.
Tenka@Nagafen wrote: Back then there was an atmosphere in which pvp could happen at anytime anywhere, and whatever arguement you can make against it, there is a counter arguement for it. Fact is, there was alot more PvP then as opposed to now, and alot of people left the game once the change, combined with the removal of level locking, was implemented. The real problem is that there is no incetive to PvP when you can queue up a BG and get the same rewards. Warfields are nothing more than an open world BG on a schedule. That is not my idea of fun PvP. There is no sense of danger or anxiety brought about by "the fog of war". It's just a mindless mosh pit of stupidity involving the killing of statues to get free tokens. Once the event is over, regardless of wether you get 5, 15, or 100 tokens, everyone leaves. YES, YOU CAN DUEL IN THE GUILD HALL And I would rather chase down evaccers, run from a full group to save my hunter title, and get ganked while harvesting than be hand fed tokens all day. But I guess thats just me...
just tried to duel in guild call. didn't work. most of the ppl that talk about how good pvp used to be, refer to the kos days. back then you KNEW where the pvp was. you could camp spires, because you KNEW they enemy was going to kos, and the spires were the only way to get there. or you could go to kos and island hop. which was turrible imo. now, the world is a lot bigger, and you have any number of ways to travel around and completely bypass pvp. ppl don't have to use guild rally banners, vet calls, ports, coh, etc, but they choose to. the world is just too big. we need a focal point for pvp. ie wf's. you don't have to go to the wf's. you can keep on doing what you're doing and maybe run into someone to fight in the 10 seconds a day you actually spend on the groud in open world. i mean not flying on those disks. you can flag anywhere, and port just about anywhere. so yeah open world pvp is gone. may as well accept it. bg's are perfect for those of us that don't thave the time or ambition to spend 10x the amount of time looking for a fight than you spend fighting. besides, one of the biggest gripes back in kos was the lack of fair fights. no 6v6's. etc. you can at least get an even number of ppl per team in bgs. most of the time i mean. you can get shafted on group makeup but that's open world pvp too. or you can make your own groups and bypass that shaft, just like open world pvp. i salute the devs for this latest attempt to make nagafen happy. if you think about it from a business perspective, everything they do is to try to appease the crowd and maintain the most subs. l'm tired of ppl running away so much to hug their titles-BAM FAME LOSS NERFED AND LATER REMOVED i'm new to the server/game, and i wanted to try pvp, but i keep getting killed by these lvl locked over-clocked over geared ppl while i try to harvest so i can get better gear. this guy killed me 17 times and he makes stupid pet named involving the word 'noob' and corpse humps me-BAM LVL LOCKING NERFED i wanna be able to lvl lock a toon and grief some undergeared new player 17 times while he tries to harvest so i can corpse hump him and /petname Manipwnyounoobfacewhosyourdaddynoobiamnoob-BAM LVL LOCKING IS BACK ETC
right click on player select duel from dropdown, works in my ghall- but anyway I understand your point of view regarding the way things have played out- my point is that in spite of all of its flaws PvP was 100 x better then than it is now- and I can't understand how anyone who played then doesn't see that. If open world PvP is dead then what's the point of being on a PvP server? Warfields are an attempt at reviving open world PvP but its lack-luster. It's just another BG scenario. And yeah, there were hot spots all over Norrath, mainly at the travel hubs and zonelines- but you never knew if you were going to find one or two people questing/harvesting or a full group ready to face hump your /ragequit corpse. There was more unpredictabilty and PvP was the natural result of playing on a PvP server. Warfields only try to force the situation and do not in any way provide a predator/prey environment. People used to get mad and call out greifers and there was usuallly a quick response especially if it was within someones fame range. Remember minding your own business trying to do a quest, then getting rolled? It was usually followed by a /1 so and so lfg PVP! The reason things changed is because of all the QQ, and there is no room for that in PVP. And from a business perspective, they lost a significant percentage of the player base when they nerfed fame and level-locking. What you see now is an attempt at repairing what they destroyed. BTW, im not saying that BG/WF isn't fun. I have fun playing the game from all aspects. The bottom line is that the new pseudo-pvp we have now in no way compares to the adrenaline rush that used to be EQ2 PvP.
I just wish the only time you had pvp immunity was in your own city, 30sec after a death/evac, and 15sec after zoning... thats it! need to afk and do something, then log out, tired of getting greifed, go to another zone, wanta take a break, call home.....
Paill@Nagafen wrote: YES PLEASE!!!!!! Implement this by the next update please !!!!!!!! Once out of your Guildhall / house = open season. Make RED servers RED !!!!!!!!!! Not Blue/Red Just try it out PLEASE
my opinon on the current state of warfields: warfields were ok at first. it got all the ppl into an area for a cause and then caused mass pvp for the time it lasted. it was a good idea. warfields now though suck. the last update to them pretty much killed it for alot of the ppl that showed up for them. rewarding everyone equally was the worst thing they could do for warfields. whether you win or lose you still get 5 tokens. so now there is no reason to try to win or even go all the way out to the opposing factions field. just run out to your faction field, get buff, wait 30min...win 5 tokens. thats pretty much how it is on nagafen now. no one really tries to win since the last update.
Morogoth Drakul wrote: You forgot to mention that you can only get the Tokens if you are lucky enough to be in the instance with Towers, so if you are locked out you need to cheat the lockout limit if you want access to the pvp and freebie Tokens... this often means that honest players are left with nothing while the exploiters prosper. WTB a pvp game with integrity.
Neskonlith wrote: Good luck with that. Joking aside, I really don't think it's an integrity issue right now. I think it's poor design. I understand the instanced versions attempt to reduce lag but to only have a WF start in one of the instances is a bad idea. Those should all be synchronized. The instance lock should also be firm and capped by alignment to keep roughly equal numbers in the full instances. Yes, Q's would end up having some instances nearly to themselves as there aren't enough Freeps to keep up but at least the full ones would be fair based upon numbers. They also need to fix the Antonica announcement.
PvP issues are as follow: The Issues! 1. Fame 2. WF's 3. Big World, small amount of Subs that are not RaFs. 4. Breaking combat/avoiding pvp. 5. BG's 6. QQQQ from all that pvp. Ideas for Fixes (i know lots of people have ideas, these are ones i have heard and liked and some are my own). 1. Fame decay should be online once per day or decay from lack of getting fame and if you are getting it you dont decay. You kill someone in pvp you get fame, you die to someone in pvp you lose fame. A hunter should get more fame from killing a master title than a master title gets from killing a hunter (yes i know this is not currently in place but should be). 2. WF's are great but two major problems. lag and token reward vs risk. WF should be win WF get 15 tokens and lose get 5 like it orginally was. If you say Qeynos outnumbers FPs too that is just QQQQ (note i only play fp side naggy). For the lag issues make CL 1, CL 2, CL 3 and ANT 1, ANT 2, ANT 3 and have them always up. CL 1 and ANT 1 is lvl 1-29, CL 2 and ANT 2 is lvl 30-59, CL 3 and ANT 3 is lvl 60-90 and each will spawn the WF in each cl 1, 2, and 3 then 2 hours later ant 1,2, and 3. if your not that lvl you cant ever go to the other zone period. this would get people to participate for the 15 tokens chance, also helps with greys leeching, and spread over 3 zones would help with lag. How is this bad? 3. EQ2 has grown over the years and is vastly bigger than when it came out. There has been some great content but.... this spreads out pvp really far and with all the travel things you miss a lot of pvp. That is all fine and dandy. Subs are low compared to any other time in eq2 (RaF does not count because people just use it for xp bonus). Not really much of a fix that i know of for this besides market better and get more players soe. 4. Breaking combat is so stupid on a pvp server. I play and inq mostly and even when on my ranger i cant keep people locked down and from breaking combat even if they come in and attack first. they just run. I really think that IN COMBAt run speed needs to be bard only and max at 10%. If you are the attacker or the ond being attacked (and not even attacking back) you should be put into in combat run speed and the amount of time you are in it is longer. Promote pvp and make us fight or go to pve server or just get rid of eq2 pvp. Evacs wont work or zoning if you are attacked in pvp untill someone dies or you break the longer combat timer that would be implemented. if you get evac off before ever being attacaked you can zone or evac. if you want pve go to pve server. 5. BG's are great and fun. Just wish you could trade klak tokens for ganak tokens, and ganak tokens for smugglers tokens at 1 to 5 ratio or something like that. so 5 klak tokens for 1 ganak token and 5 ganka token for 1 smuggler token. I only want to play my inq and he is not lvl 90 and i have been trying for weeks to get in smugglers den and que up for 24 hours and never get in. I can not get access to that gear because of this. Please adjust this. 6. WE (me included) need to stop complaining so much. we are qqqq a lot.
Please consider making the WF objective a small outpost / Tower + wall near the city gates that can be held until the next Warfield. A semi-persistent objective would help make this less trivial, and provide a team goal besides the personal gain of 5 tokens. Think a little more DAOC.
What's really dead isn't just PVP.... it is the game itself. There is no challenge to anything anymore. Instances in SF haven't ever been challenging and the gear not worth the time it takes to do them, the raid content, even on hard mode has been pretty much cleared for a while and the PVP isssues are so well documented I won't bother commenting. It is time for Sony to go scorched Earth on this game. I'm talking real Biblical wrath of God type sh*t: Abraham killing Isaac, flood the entire planet, nail a guy to a hunk of wood and kill him because it's gotten that out of hand kind of stuff. Sony: Give us EQ3 and start over from scratch because this game has outlived itself.
