As I noted in a reply in the similar thread in this forum, there is some minor hope for ranger pulling. I have respeced to the AA Hook Arrow and it does work to single out mobs. However, there is good news and bad news about it. Bad news is the range is 25 m, which makes the raid usefullness questionable in some cases I think, but it may work in many. Other bad news is its not a de-aggro pull, which means you better have someone grabbing your aggro asap or you gonna die if you pull named epics this way. In fact, the ability states your next melee attack will be a crit attack, which wont help your aggro either, lol. Also has a 2 min reuse timer, which may not hurt too much on raid mobs, but might make it a pain for solo pulling. Not sure if the other AA line which increase arrow range applies to this ability or not, but it should. I had to despec that to spec Hook Arrow so I wont know personally for a while. Before, the 25 m range attacks were increased to 29 m range with the alternate AA. Anyway, I also hate this change, Surveilance was one of the things that made me fell truely usefull on some raids. Corwin D'Amber - 70 Ranger on Antonia Bayle
Was reading somewhere that PvP rangers were useing it in cities to argo pets into combat. Was that True? If so they did put that in the patch notes. Ruldayen
This is ridiculous because this is the one way we had an utility in a group. It is even more ridiculous that it is not even mentioned in the patch notes.
Barramundi, It is so simple: It is (was?) one of the few group utility type things that Rangers still have (had?). If this is a PvP related nerf, imnsho, SoE can go pound gritty silica up its orfice of egress... -Smoothie 70 Ranger Mistmoore Message Edited by FluffyDestroyerofWorlds on 12-22-2006 02:31 AM
Yeah, and again we are at the usual suspect, PvP. Where exactly does it say in the patch notes? I see nothing related to Surveillance or PvP.
I'd love more information on Hook Arrow First of all the range. Are you SURE the range is 25 meters? Do you use a shortbow? Because with a long bow all my attack CAs seem to be the range of the bow 35 meters. Have you tried using Hook Arrow with a long bow? You said they arrive angry, are they appearing and immediately engaging? Do you have time to elude or surveillance while a tank taunts? Even if its only a second? Have you tried having intercession, or other aggro switching cas placed upon you before the pull so it switches to them? Do they bring any social with them? Do they bring their linked critters with them or ONLY that mob, thereby breaking the encounter from multiple to one? If I'm going to waste 20 AAs for a substitute pulling CA I'd love the answers.
I say fine... let the summoners die on the pull instead of the preds. /Washes hands from pulling mobs Seriously though, if this was overpowering to the predators (being able to skip content), then they should also do the same for summoners. How many people you know use pet pulls to grab targets? Me too... a ton.
Not a good idea. Now that I can't surv pull, I'm going to depend on the pet pulls. Edit: Just wanted to add. This isn't just a nerf to predators, it's a nerf to your entire raid party. Message Edited by Gareorn on 12-22-2006 10:59 AM
If this was an intended nerf (which I think it probably was, but just my speculation) so that we wouldn't skip content, it should be done for all classes, not just a select few. Mind you, I am not advocating for that. I am just saying if that was the reasoning behind the change, then it should be for all classes. Unfortunately we are all speculating about why, so this is just one possibility. I would prefer to be able to pull one target out. It was one of the things I got to do on a regular basis not only in raids but also in regular groups. As a matter of fact, I wish it were still 50m instead of 35m. But it doesn't look like either of those things are going to happen, so I guess I will just deal with it. (FWIW, I was joking... trying not to take rangering too seriously.. it's bad for the blood pressure. )
Patch notes *** Gameplay *** - Gorenaire and Talendor have had their resistances lowered except for their affinity elements (cold and fire respectively). - Talendor's AE has been changed from being unresistable to now able to be resisted by high heat resistances. Gorenaire's AE's did not have this problem and remain unchanged. - The issue causing various item reversions such as items becoming unattuned has been resolved. - In city zones, Stalk and Surveillance can no longer be used to force pets into attacking when they are set to protect/guard. Ruldayen
huh...city zones? Since when does city zones encompass the whole of norrath plus some Btw has anyone seen or heard anything from a GM/Red name on these boards recently?This really blows as it makes it even more difficult to solo let alone offer some sort of utility. merry christmas everyone...compliments of SoE
Okay.. The theory to put more emphasis on a ranger pulling with Hook Arrow now, is hogwash. Hook Arrow generates as much aggro to everything around the target as a normal arrow shot does.. Add to that the apparently high rate of failing to hook your target ( I get a failed hook seems every 2-3 tries both PvE and PvP). Surveillance was the best skill Rangers had for PvE, the Best. It gave us a reason to be in a group. Yeah it made a few zones a little easier / quicker, made raids a little less stressful but both Rangers and Assassins could do it. So it's not like it was a 1-class-only sort of deal. I've /bugged it, my guildmates have /bugged, a lot of Rangers I know have /bugged it. IMO it should be set back. What's the point of having an in-combat DeAgro / Stealth as a lv.70 skill when it's now only slightly better than it's predacessor? Besides, good Rangers on Raids take enough care of their DPS not to draw Agro in the first place and we got Elude to ditch it when we get it anyway. First we're gypped by our highest damage spell being an Ancient Teaching, then we're gypped on EoF AAs (just go look at an Assassin's new tree sometime). Our Skills are below par compared to most of the other classes in the game.. Our only real advantage is we can do consistant damage instead of burst damage in a Raid.. wooped de doo. That "consistant" damage requires either A) you're a woodworker / friends with a woodworker or B) Rich enough to afford 2p / Raid in Arrows Alone.. that's bare minimum costs, not counting poisons and potions. Really thinking the Dev's need to reevaluate the Ranger class again and bring it inline with the others. Furies, Wardens, Templars have all outdamaged me with ease.. HEALING classes, you know the classes that were designed to be non-offensive curative classes? they're out damaging a class that was designed as pure DPS... no-one else see a problem with that picture? Everyday I come closer and closer to wanting to betray my geared up 70 Ranger to become an Assassin, starting almost fresh with Gear since I have mostly Relic pieces now.
Assassins have the advantage without the EoF aa's, with the EoF aa's its ment to ballance the two classes.. Please step back and think about this. Arrow woe's go away once you get the ichorstrand/bazkul.. But untill then your stuck in the mudd for arrows, you will also notice that things change rather drematiccly once you get t8 ammo. Could you please post some parsings on this subject? I havent seen any fury/templar/warden/defiler etc do more than 400 consistantly.. I realize a fury can AE for quite abit, so thats why I am asking for zone parsings.. If you yourself are doing 1k average, your on the lower/middle end of being a ranger, if your hitting 1.5k+ every fight and healers are holding that dps then that seriously needs to be looked into.. But as things are, I dont see that in my parsings, the healers that I know etc.. I dont know anything abou tyou or your character, so please educate me.
/snip You know, being a NON-UBERGUILDED-RAIDING RANGER, this really gets my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I don't post on the ranger forums much at all, but, I am sick of hearing how much better thigs will be if we get a certain kind of bow. One of 2 of them. I do raid, however, I have to raid with an alliance, and we will probably not see these for a VERY long time. Why the hell is it, I will be sub-par to everyone else on a raid until I am lucky enough, and we are equipped well enough, to get one of these arrows. What about the 90% of the ranger population that will NEVER see these bows? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SOE throw the rest of us a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing bone here. I am sick of this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. /stepoffsoapbox
I was just doing a quest in Loping Plains for the Sonborn camp or whatever. I have no trouble pulling only the gremlin tricksters out of the gremlin muses with the surveil line. Matter of fact and embarassment, I'm using M1 Improved Surveil, instead of Surveillance. Thanks to this thread, I realized I hadn't upgraded it since I was 70 in the summer. Rah
Obviously you're still stuck in the KoS mindset. Every expansion it seems like the "top" dps gets shuffled a bit. For EoF it looks like it's going to be necro's (still), wizzie's, and swashies. Once everyone has their 100 AA's I'd expect rangers to outparse assassins. In DoF no one could touch rangers. Everyone has their time in the limelight, and I'm ok with that. I do have a slight problem with classes with much more utility (necro's especially, but also swashies) being able to consistently out dps the supposed T1 classes. What's the point in rolling a sorceror or predator if I could bring more dps and more utility (rez, heal, feign death, mana regen, group buffs) to the raid by rolling a necro instead? Even without the T8 ammo, a ranger can easily break 1k dps zonewide, which is nothing to sneer at. Our ranger does anyway, and we're a non-uber raiding alliance as well. Alright, I'm done stirring the pot. I just hopped over to see what you all were saying about the surveilance change.
