Avirodar@Oasis wrote: Thank you for pointing out that Inquisitors are overpowered not just because they trivialize cures. I agree that the reason they are overpowered goes way beyond that. Raids using 4 Inquisitors to heal through even HM Drunder just shows this to be true, even though the cure requirements have been significantly reduced and the damage increased. Changing the content did not take away the Inquisitor's position of being overpowered and keeping other healer classes out of raids. I think you have done a great job pointing out, yet again, that it is not the Templars that are broken.
Avirodar@Oasis wrote: Great, we can add this to your lexicon. Here's some more goodies on how you feel towards Templars. Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
Be careful, Rick, you are making Avirodar look bad. You know he is just going to say his quotes were taken out of context and that he likes being pwned. He is, after all, trying to help out the templars who clearly do not need any fixing. He is the only inquisitor that I know of who admits to inquisitors being overpowered and suggests that the Devs look into why this is the case.
Avirodar@Oasis wrote: I just love how Avirodurp is getting pwned by multiple people and he still has the gall to come post the same defeated drivel here again and again. And again. Listen, sport. According to what I can see from Guildprogress, there are a total of TWELVE guilds out of 200+ raiding guilds that have even stepped foot in HM Drunder. You want to legitimize an entire expansion's worth of content that is shut out to templars because, and this is according to you only, HM Drunder, the 3 hardest raid zones in the game that most raiders will NEVER see, is somehow templar friendly, and that therefore everything is all right and good with the world. And your pathetically fail defense tactic in response to that is, well the rest of you guys are scrub so it's your fault you're not in those zones. And I like how you dishonestly hyperbolize your fail statements yet again like "I understand some Templars try to downplay the changes in Drunder, because it did not instantly result in every guild world wide trying to recruit 3 templars." How many guilds have recruited even one? Oh yours has? So he gets to sub in for a few fights and then gets benched for everything else. How nice. All templars worldwide should now feel a sigh of relief. How utterly ludicrous. And maybe you have been spacing out the last few months, but the devs have been progressively nerfing these zones ever since the expansion came out and I have no doubt this trend will continue. Anything that makes content easier is yet another reason templars will be less desirable. Just because your raid's MT inquisitor (you?) is unable to heal HM Drunder doesn't mean the MT inquisitors of the other guilds in there can't either. Looks to me like they're doing just fine. Like I said, Drunder hasn't changed a single thing for templars, no matter how much spindoctoring you do.
As time goes on, it makes more and more sense. EasyMode Templars are claiming Templars have no use and viability, but by their own admission, the lie is revealed. The Templars still complaining, come from guilds that have made no progress in HM Drunder. If they even zoned into HM Sullons, and if they even manage to make it to the first named in the zone, the mobs beat their tanks face in, despite the absence of AE detriment spam. But these same Templars turn around and QQ that healing capacity is not needed.... How amusing. I hope the Devs see how foolish you Templars are.
Avirodar@Oasis wrote: Meh not worth it to pwn you again, I edited my nasty post. You've refuted nothing, proven nothing, but it's still not worth my continued effort.
Rick777 wrote: You continue believe you are "winning" when the reality is far from it. The absence of a red name speaks volumes. I love it how the Drunder zones take the wind out of the sails of those who claim healing prowess is not desirable.
Avirodar@Oasis wrote: I love it how deluded people can still be. I'm still wondering why I haven't heard of any other raids that have subbed in a templar because of HM Drunder. I'm still wondering how someone can be deluded enough to think that a set of zones that only a few guilds can raid is somehow enough to make up for an entire expansion that templars aren't wanted for. And I'm still wondering how deluded people can be to think that the successful killing of a mob by a raid depends only on the healers in the MT group. What a ludicrous joke. So you think that if a raid gets r*ped going into a new tough zone it's because there isn't a templar in the group? LOL how many more ways can you get pwned? Seriously?
Avirodar@Oasis wrote: Lol, you see the difference is that I am not trying to "win" or "lose", I'm just relaying my experiences and feedback for the devs to consider. The devs are the ones who will put together your and my experiences and feedback and make a decision. The devs are the ones who decided that all raid content including drunder HM is healable by an inquisitor (I'm assuming not yours though), so in that sense yes they've spoken loud and clear for today. Tommorrow is a different day and they may decide to change things, but so far it's still the same. I've never said that some issues couldn't be solved through content, I was merely offering my own suggestions for the devs to decide if they are right or wrong. Seriously dude, it's a video game.
Is Avir still trying to derail the thread with nonsense? I mean geez he must be really concerned that if any of these underpowered suggestions come to fruition he will be requested to /reroll or betray ohh the lulz.
SpineDoc wrote: Hi I am that defiler. And I only have one group cure. Not only can I solo heal a scout group, but I can solo heal an OT group. I probably could solo heal an MT group through just about all original EM content with the exception of statue. And I still only have one group cure. And I'm still wearing plenty of PQ and T2 SF pieces. What I believe a lot of folks, and templars included, are fussing about a second group cure is....its easier. Yup. Its easy sauce with 2 group cures. Solo healing a group with these kinds of AEs and only one group cure? You have to be smarter. You have to have some skill with your class. You have to learn your mobs. You have to know what you can heal through and what absolutely without question needs to be cured. That's how I do it on statue, honestly. Trauma can be healed through on the statue- albeit I really have to put my big girl panties on and be smart about how I do it- and when the nox hits and both trauma and nox are active, I cure it all with my one group cure. /shrug Easy sauce. I'm not even specced for fast ST cures on the WIS line for shamans because its crap. However, I've taken the time to learn the mobs and to figure out the best way to work my one cure around them. So, in my opinion, you can show how easy it is or you can show how skilled you are. I prefer the latter, to be honest.
Karimonster wrote: Thanks for coming here and displaying your plummage for us to admire how skilled you are. Unfortunately for you, you have missed the point entirely. It's not just that it's "easier". For sure it is easier for the templar. The problem is that RL's prefer it for being easier, and for giving the MT group the extra cushion of a third cure if needed, and for the inquisitor's mythical long range casting-on-the-move cure, and for freeing the shaman up to concentrate more on healing. And that's only half the problem. Let's not forget the DPS and DPS buffs. If one of these two obstacles were removed, there would be more reason to have a templar in the raid, or rather less reason to not have a templar in the raid. And it would only be in the MT group, so the other THREE inquisitor spots in the raid are safe (and have always been). This is what the inquisitors are so afraid of. It was unknown to me before now, but many of them apparently have had such large complexes over the years for not being MT healer that they are now insanely and desperately trying to protect all 4 of their raid spots for fear of being 'relegated' to being non-MT group healers again, a spot (or 3) which they have actually monopolized over templars essentially since launch.
Karimonster wrote: Ok, I wasn't planing on replying to this thread anymore, but this post is something I feel I am going to have to put in proper perspective. To start off with, I myself currently also play a defiler, and have played a templar in the past in raids. In DoV I have solo healed every original EM raid except statue on my defiler as well in the MT group. To compare templar curing ability to defiler curing ability is a bit of a slap in the face to templars. First off, defilers get two additional tools to help with cures that templars don't. Defilers gets voice of the ancestors, and shaman dog aoe avoid. Voice of the ancestors, is a limited second group cure on a longer than normal cool down, but it can be cast under control effects, and also in the air. The shaman dog aoe avoid can be used to avoid about 1 out of 3 aoes or even more if your lucky, if you are skilled at controlling it. Shaman's also get the dog cure AA, which is about as useful as manacure that templars get, which basically isn't at all useful. While I will say it is possible to get stuff done with a limited number of cures, it makes just about everything significantly, and I do mean significantly harder than it is when you have plenty to go around. Now while many templars think the only solution to the situation is to just straight up give them a second cure, or cut their main cure timer in half or something, I think simply giving templars a useable limited second group cure, like voice of the ancestors is for defilers, would go a very long way on helping the class be more reasonable to play.
The point is: Every healer class has tools to deal with whatever situation. If you can't figure out the ones on your class, maybe you should consider playing something else instead of coveting what another class does or calling for them to be nerfed. People only want to take one templar? Hello! I play a defiler! How many guilds are running around with 2-3 of those instead of 1 defiler and 2-3 mystics? I keep my spot as a second defiler in the raid because I'm good at what I do. When has a raid EVER made running around with more than one defiler important? Never!
Karimonster wrote: I believe the point in question is the fact that overall gamewide since release RL's have (with some rare exceptions) Templars were benched or forced to reroll or betray so that their raid force can consist of Inquisitors (which bring dps and clicky cure). As to shamans some guilds will only bring one defiler and 2-3 mystics others will bring 2 defilers and maybe 2 mystics which means your class is not gamewide being force to sit on the bench or told to reroll or betray to have a raid slot not sure how much clearer you need it laid out.
You can arguing and becoming angry as much as you can, but inq can't keep MT alive on hard mobs or it's very hard for him. Templar is extremly powerfull when learning content. It always making me smile, when ppl trying to copy top guilds. You don't have their dps,skills,gear, teamwork. And even they starting to use templars in drunder. You making you decission on tier one raids, easiest raids in curent content. Most of you never pulled hm drunder mobs. Templars as class are fine(but i would like to see more defensive stuff ofc), and i don't see a problem if you need only one templar in raid, you also don't need more then one fury or defiler. Just play toon you like and be happy. Skilled templar is always needed. Actualy i like that templar becoming a rare class-less noobs, more general good impression about us
Karimonster wrote: No Kari, you AGAIN miss the point. It is not that people only want to take one templar. It is that they want to take ZERO templars. Welcome to the thread. Feel free to read the first 15 pages of replies.
SpineDoc wrote: Great points indeed. It is true that Templars experienced a wane in desirability, in what is now old content. It is true that a significant factor of the desirability drop related to encounter design being very cure intensive. We are so fortunate that SOE has since released new content, Drunder. In these zones, there has been encounter design changes, which have resolved Templar concerns. Templars are great for Drunder zones, because AE's hit less often, mobs hit harder, and the healing/defensive capacity of a Templar has experienced a boost in desirability. SOE has answered the concerns of Templars. Kudos to SOE! I am pleased to see Templars are thanking SOE, for steering away from AE detrimental intensive encounter designs in Drunder. Who would have EVER imagined that SOE would do such?!?! While it seems that 'some' Templars will keep complaining, unless Templars are made so powerful that no guild in the world would DARE attempt the almighty (old) Kraytoc's EasyMode without a Templar to save the day (lol...), the points made that SOE has resolved Templar concerns, is touching. But, if talking about what happened in old content is relevant, I could talk about what SOE done to Inqs back in RoK!
