Sirens Grotto: Tavalan Abyss (HM) - Overlord Talan

It's as much of a test of skill as anything else in the game. It's a video game, you sit there like a monkey in front of a vending machine mashing buttons until a banana falls out.

I don't want the banana anymore =\
It's old and brown and mushy...

Yes its happening, and makes it equally hard if you wish to run any pet classes in the group.

One thing that's always confused me with this zone though, why do the dopplegangers pop so much faster in EM than on HM? I'd say the DPS check in EM is more difficult overall than HM, and then the only real major difference is the AE blocker once every 2 minutes.

Missed this, sorry. Yes, it's hitting pets. My group doesn't usually get past the second curse without it landing on a pet and screwing us (3 pet classes).

So we are required to have a Druid in the group? since bards aoe blocker has a longer recast? Seems to me that skill is more about adapting with different group set ups... not have a cookie cutter group set up that if you do not follow means instant failure

Scorching Faith hits ~2-3 seconds after the first doppleganger spawn and 120 seconds later (pretty much soon after the 3rd doppleganger). Checked thru some pulls last night and it happened the same every time. Swarm pets can be the direct target of it, so if pets are on the named and everyone else jousts away with aoe immunity no one gets hit. If no pets are up then the closest person gets the effect and will probably die unless you get a death save (equilibrium/cyclone/last man standing) on them. Not saying it couldn't be bugged and not always be that way, but that's what we've seen. We've cleared it 5 times with Guard/Inquis/Coe/Dirge (mix of brig/swash/assassin/warlock) for dps

No...you can use Equilibrium from an inquis then bard immunity then equilibrium again, tanks on their own in that case, but guards at least have 2 self aoe immunes if need be.

Could use swashy immune, bard, swash

Could use brigand prestige immune, bard, brig...i'm sure there are a few other options out there too, that's also assuming you have terrible dps, cause we've never seen it fire a 3rd time. So you really only have to live thru two of them 120 seconds apart.

Ok thanks for the confirmation. I will definitely look into the curse hitting pets. It should not be doing that. As far as the EM clone spawning faster than HM it was mathed out based on required DPS versus hit points of the clone and how long the boss roots himself. I can double check it though and make sure its the correct numbers if you think it may be off a bit.

Update: Found the issue with the curse hitting pets and will try to get it pushed up to live asap.

This right here is why this mob is stupid. When a mob is rooted it cycles targets unless there is something in melee range. ie direct target of the AoE is essentially random and if the tank stays in then the add is too close to the named. 1 person dead and 1 person jousting = huge loss in dps on the add.

Is anyone even killing this that isn't over geared for the zone?

Not yet here. However, I might try to convince people to attempt the HM version tonight, even if I can't expect a win because of DPS on the outside chance that we may see some better progress than we saw in the EM version, based on a few comments I see here...

We didn't even look at the HM version and quit looking at either at all when the EM version refused to cooperate with any of the usual and less usual tricks and brutality...

In the longest EM attempt/pull, we had a 3 minute 41 second fight, with 650k group dps, 118 million total inflicted on named + 25 million on the dopplegangers. This was some kiting variant without a ranged centric DPS (Mnk, Brg, Drg, Coe, Inq, Mys)..
The next longest was a 2 minute 42 second fight, with 811k group dps, 103 million on the named + 28 on dopplegangers. This was a more traditional in-place tanking style with the same group setup.

I can't say we were ever 'close' to a win in any attempt, or else it would have happened...

In my experience, no. I've tried it with my raid main and with several alts. Only the raid main has been successful.

It's an entire zone dedicated to getting scouts a reuse wrist.

Ya seems kinda silly that you have to HM raid geared in order to run this zone... which will net you gear that they end up selling or putting on alts. Other then the curse going on pets change... I think that the dopplegangers need to have even less hps or have the time between adds increased.

also think that the aoe blocking for the big AOE is not skill... just requires 2 AOE blocking classes.... skill would be making the script so players had to actually do something to avoid the aoe... like run behind a box... or click something. I just do not think that this mob has a good script.

I would like to know how a group of individuals with stewart gear is suppose to do this in nm or even hm? Those who do not raid that want to do heroics need to have raid gear? I am all for raising the bar here to make things more challenging, but raid geared toons to do heroics for heroic loot? The HM is suppose to be hard, but not to the point were you need raid gear to do it. So, if you need raid gear to do a HM why is it even a heroic instance? I am just saying gone into this zone with people in full stewart gear, and they could barely even kill the trash let alone a name in here.

Again seems like utter confusion over targeted audience....kinda like the new raid zone...and I also beg to differ with Gninja the em version of this script has adds with way too many hp versus spawn times in this fight and the fight in general for both versions needs a casting trigger on the focus hit overall this seems like an illogical design but whatever....

EM doppleganger definitely needs less HP, it's kinda ridiculous in its present state. The sheer amount of dps needed (considering someone may be jousted away on top of that) has no business in an easy mode encounter.

We tried using Equilibrium, but it applied a DoT curse that lasted longer than Equil. Overall though, I really enjoyed the fight.

With that said, my feedback would just be that the end bosses in heroic zones should not be much/any harder than the earlier bosses. The zone would have been much better if either all the bosses were the same difficulty as Overlord Talan (with his appropriately awesome loot) or if Talan matched the difficulty/loot of the other named in the zone.

EDIT: Heroic progression is good, but it should be between zones, not within zones.

Sorry, this fight is terrible even in EM.
Sorry, these new zones are terrible. And by that, I mean the loot. The ideas behind the fights are okay for the most part. But the difficulty versus the rewards is FAR out of whack... I dare SoE to take a group of previous heroics geared toons and do these zones. I mean nothing but 164 stat gear (since even a fully steward geared toon won't get upgrades from SG).

So judging by the loot, both new zones are meant for 164 geared toons to be able to do.
Yet they require far more than that to be doable.

Everything in both instances needs to be adjusted to its target audience. Since the other solution (beefing up the loot) isn't going to happen....

From what I understand everyone killing the name is only doing it by using an excessive amount of AoEs blockers, no one knows the real strat/ it's broken, either way the boss needs to be fixed