Retuning in Veeshan's Peak

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

We haven't tried Drusshk since Friday, I think, but the statues and the fear were not simultaneous for us. The fear was a set amount of time after the statue was deactivated.

thank you for the response !

Nexona:
She is NOT ok, because having 2 till 4 players run around and search for shinys is not FAIR. Just make these shinys spawn 50 meters AROUND Nexona so these raiders can do something between searching them (dmg, support, heal, rez ...). Do NOT kick them out of the whole fight by forcing them to search for shinys 500 meters away. Or simply let the adds spawn out of nexona everytime she /says something ! If you think this would nerf nexona alot just give her more HP or a harcore AE !

Druushk:Everyone KNOWS that pathing in EQ2 is "strange". THINK and do NOT let some adds spawn FAR AWAY so that they maybe could move "strange". It is CONFIRMED that these adds sometimes kill the clickers, appear somewhere in the raid and kill randomly players or that "f-clickers" get feared when they have to click. Please do NOT force 3-4 players to klick statues so that they can NOT be a part of the raid for some time ! Just make it like silverwing that you have to click ONE statue every 10% HP or something like that and after that an add spawns out of druushk himself !


Just imagine the following: You are a class wich has to search for shinys in the nexona fight and after that you have to click statues in the druushk fight. Imagine if you are not the ub0r raid, and that you maybe will wipe 2-4 times in both fights. That could result in clicking "things" for HOURS and NOT having fun. You join your raid and go like "today i really feel great and i will make ub0r dps" but then you will be forced to click something for hours ! It is just BORING ! So please before or when you RE-DESIGN these encounters just think of the following: What would be fun/action enough to keep players AWAKE ! Thank you !


or and btw -> Venril:one day i was falling asleep when me had to click the mini-statues and having our OT tanking venril. it was a bad day and it took some wipes to finally get him down. But the whole time i was thinking "What am i doing here ? What is this ? Why do i have to click these statues ? Is there a reason for doing it ? Would this make the fight easier without having me forced to click this something ? Is the Fight more hardcore because i have to click it ? Crafting is more fun than that !" this is CRAP game deisgn, this is unbelievable stupid and a waste of time !


PLEASE FIX IT ! MAKE RAIDING FUNNY IN 08 !

I agree Nexona and Druusk are tough, but hey no one said raiding was easy - what do you want? a "Click me me for mythical" button ?
We spent 3 weeks raiding nearly every night to get Cheldrak down when it first came out. best feeling ever when we beat it.
How many pulls have you had on Nexona and Druusk ?
People just want a win button nowadays :/
Fair enough if the mobs are buggy fix them, but as Nexona and Druusk have been beaten since the fixes, it is possible

everything is possible, but if you have to click just one button or search around for harvestable shinys for HOURS, do you like that ? gz ! Cheldrak was a cool and challenging fight and so it was fun. Go and click the two statues @ venril and tell me if this is fun 4 u ?!? Imagine you have to switch on and off a light in your room every 30 secs to kill a raid encounter in eq2. Just stand in your room and turn a light on, off, on, off, on, off ... maybe ... for hours. this makes me lawl and go insane . Where is the difference between clicking a statue in eq2 ... on, off, on, off, on, off to finally kill an epic named ? Ok, maybe there are some people out there who have really big fun in switching a light on and off, some little children for example, but this will be entertaining only for some minutes and not more. It's not about how hardcore an raid encounter is, it's about how hardcore AND funny (or really challenging) it is ! Clicking switches on and off is NOT hardcore ! When players are forced to do stupid things to kill something they will get bored after some time ! I look forward to the day when we go out and kill venril once again ... on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off,............... on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off,............on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off, ......... *falling asleep sry* ! Think what you are playing and doing while you are playing, please ! thank you !

yes i do click the statues on VS, hey im a SK and meh i dont mind it - i usually call people on power while clicking the staues.
Ok so it's not as fun as fighting, but its still an important part of the raid, and you do what needs to be done right ?

Pitt Hammerfist wrote:

Let me guess.... you haven't done either of those fights?

Nex is a fun fight..... Druusk on the otherhand....... /wrists

Druusk hasn't been beaten by guilds without epics... (the new version)

Pitt Hammerfist wrote:

Nexona is tough. Druusk is not working properly. Asking for a mob that works is not a Easy Button. This 3rd incarnation of Druusk has been beaten, you are correct. However, its been beaten by people who are already equiped with their Mythicals, which obviously most raids aren't going to have.

This topic totally relates to me.
Yes i've killed v1 of nexona and druusk.
No i haven't killed v2 of these mobs.
Yes i have fought nexona v2 and yes it seems impossible atm (early days though, compared to cheldrak 3 week slog).
No i haven't fought Druusk v2, but as a SK i am immune to fear and so are our palys - so fear shouldnt be a problem (again early days).
No i dont have my epic.
Yes we are up to these 2 mobs now.
If it's buggy fine, fix that, and yes maybe the mobs are out of line in the terms of progression through the zone. But Buggy encounter != making the encounter easier.
Part of me is saying nerf the mobs so i can get my epic, part of me is saying dont make it a cakewalk
And YES im totally spewing, they made this encounter more difficult just as we got up to them for our mythicals.

read my post again and think ! it's not about nerfing it's about FUN ! if you have to switch a light in your room on and off, you tell me again "it's an important part of the raid and it's need to be done!". arrrrgh

I dont know wether you would ever call the act of raiding fun anyway. I mean to me its gritty, intense, lots of deaths, lots of sighs.
The rewards at the end though is what makes it fun - defeating the mob, getting the rewards, the accomplisment, the cheering
I dont expect fairys to be dropping roses and unicorns to be holding my hand throughout the encounter.
lol but yeah your right - clicking statues isnt fun, but whats the difference between clicking heals, clicking CA's, or clicking statues? its all clicking

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Nexona encounter, at all, except the crab-like DPS restriction. It doesn't need to be changed difficulty-wise one bit, because there aren't really many if any elements of the fight where you fail due to any reason but your own incompetence. The RNG doesn't play a huge role in this fight. It's mostly skill, once you get it down it's something you will be able to first pull eventually every time unless people aren't paying attention at all, and that's without mythicals even, and feel good about it. Again, change the DPS limitation, there should NEVER be a mechanic whereby you are punished for playing too well (and for DPS classes, playing well = doing alot of DPS)

Druushk is a different story, and the RNG can screw you in many ways. Taking 4 people out of the fight, and then making people use arguably broken methods like overloaded heal spamming in order to keep them alive at the other end of the zone nowhere near the dragon as they spam the F key in an attempt not to fall asleep at their keyboard is terrible, I don't really have anything against the shiny-clicking in Nexona at all, it's a semi active role where you aren't just sitting there hitting F as fast as possible, that's ok, and you aren't crippling 4 members of your raidforce by doing it. The fight is technically incredibly punishing, the mob does extreme melee DPS to the tank, and is difficult to heal, and you are essentially 3 grouping him because of the statue nonsense. I would suggest making a simple change to eliminate the statues from the fight altogether make the adds spawn automatically, keep the rest of the script unchanged, maybe even add a bit of HP to Druushk to compensate, but let everyone participate in the fight, and I think this in itself would be enough to make it very difficult but something you could eventually 'master'. I do not see the current Druushk as something even a well disciplined raid force can master, and that's my huge problem with it. No matter how used to it we get there will be wipes every time we go into VP from now on, due to pure randomness, and that's not fun. I want my skill as a player and the skill of my raidforce to be able to overcome obstacles, not a lucky roll of the dice.

I like the Nexona re-vamp, and the idea of a VP revamp (but you need to boost the loot to match - risk vs reward and all that, most of the stuff in there is transmute fodder), but please ensure that fights now and in the future require no more than a little bit, if any, luck to defeat by a disciplined raid force. Make them hard, make them technically challenging, make them require concentration, make them fun, but avoid any more Druushk's. Noone at all that I've seen finds this mob fun.

Shan

What Ashmodai9 said sounds pretty fair to me.

the difference between it, is that you see a live (re-)action of what you are doing when you really take part of a fight. you see yourself casting, you see your dps/hps in the parser, you go insane if a hardcore named is on 10%, you try to time spells/castings, you try to get better in what you are doing and everytime things can turn around ... maybe you have to crossheal or (as shadowknight) FD someone to safe his life. further you have to see everything on your screen: your mana, hp, the raid- , group-, chat-window ... where is your healer standing right now, does he move ... maybe you have to use a potion ... etc. The list is long in what you have to do if you NOT have to e.g. click the statues @ venril or search for shinys @ nexona. This should be enough for you to get a simple overview in the difference of clicking "things" or really FIGHTING NAMEDS !


OK, you as a shadowknight in your raidforce is forced to click statues or switches every xy seconds BUT imagine a world without that and ask yourself "has this really to be done or is it useless?" and maybe think further "isn't this a lack of good enjoyable game design?" or "would this really nerf this encounter so far that it would be super easy ?". Now you can go like "you are (maybe) right but there are only some encounters where you have to constantly click "things" !" But this won't be an answer to the questions. NOW there are "only" (for me to many) encounters where some ppl have to do useless things, but whats about the future, will there be more ? YES, i think so because why do they exist ? Because some dev decided that this is "enjoyable". Many ppl complained about how easy VP is and as a result they got tuned nameds where people have to click "things". Now think again, there will be a lot of clickys for a shadowknight in the future, njoy !

Fix click rates and fun in '08 !

Kellindril@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I'll admit when I refer to the named in VP I'm talking about the Six Dragons, not the guardians. There should be a clear progression from one Dragon to the Next. Compare Nexona/Druushk in the first wing to Xygoz/Hoshkar in the second. There is no question whatsoever which encounters are more difficult, and that's just backwards. In my personal opinon other then fixing the bugs on Druushk these mobs shouldn't be changed, the order of the wings should be.
EH is a good example, Wuoshi was tougher then the Gardner, who was in turn tougher then the Tender. Each floors boss was a more difficult fight then the last. Keeping with the comparison what we have right now is Wuoshi on the first floor, Tender on the Second and Gardner on the 3rd.

Has anybody even confirmed the dps cap on nexiona or is it just a rumor started by server lagged shiney pops?

i dont see how leviathain is harder then any vp named... you walk in kill 10 npcs spawn the wurm, do your thing, drop him and collect your loot... before lu42 (20-30min ranged w/ afk's) after lu42 (10-12min tops) back to nex & dru How would deside who gets to raid and who has to be clicky/harvester?? (personally if i got choosen i would quit eq)

Vorlak wrote:

There is most definitely a DPS cap on Nexona.

Fun is pretty subjective. I do have fun raiding; the tension, the stress, the pressure, these things are actually fun. Hearing the read leader scream for healers to nuke their brains out on the shadowy acolyte at Cheldrak was fun. Tank rotations on 3 princes were fun. Avatar of Flame was a blast, and even Mischief was quite exciting (even if it was a curefest). I spent the War fight running around behind his dog, healing whoever it decided to target - and it was fun!
Knowing I have a role to fill, and trying my best to fill it... to me, that's fun. Beating stuff with my friends, also fun. And I'm fine with wiping for days to the same mob, if we're making progress and learning.
But the light-flipping example is perfect. How can I be "good" or "bad" at spamming f? The difference between clicking a statue for 6 hours a night and clicking "other buttons" is that those other buttons require some skill. They are effected by your gear, your spells, and the work you've put in on your character. Any power levelled noob could be brought into the zone to click statues.
Anything in a fight which is random is NOT fun in my book. Pulling the same mob 10 times and seeing 10 different things happen, not a lot of fun. Having absolutely no idea WHY things are happening or how to respond to them, that's practically the anti-fun.
Venril tells you he's watching your power. Leviathan tells you he's invulnerable. Overking tells you he's summoning flames to obliterate you. These are things where can apply skills, gear, spells, and practice.
Druusk.. not fun. Not even close.

....

On topic I rarely post on the forums anymore, But I have to agree with a lot of the sentiments here.
I DO AGREE this fight is not fun. The idea of making statue clickers sitting there spamming FFFFFF key over and over isnt my idea of fun. At least on Nexona your running around actively looking for the shinies as fast as you can. On Druushk you just sit there hitting the FFFFF key.
I DO NOT agree that the mob is unkillable tho - its just that it requires a very good pull - and a lot of luck - and [I cannot control my vocabulary] amounts of dps.
Before the recent change, you could have your clickers out of combat, not getting hit by the AoE and adds only popped if one wasnt already up. That was a much more doable version - and when we first killed DRUUSHk this was the version we got. BUT after the change if we hadnt gotten a handful of important DPS mythicals I really dont think we would have been able to come back and beat the mob again.
As for the getting feared / while clicking statues, out of the 5 days or so of pulling this mob (both versions) we never once had that happen, it was always click statue 10seconds later fear hits - then 30 seconds till next statue. Not sure what kind of weird bug is associated with some guilds getting hit by the fear while clicking, but that deff needs to be fixed.
OBVIOUSLY SoE wants Mythicals to only be had by the very top guilds - and so they put these encounters in to make sure not every Tom [I cannot control my vocabulary] and Harry can walk in and get the updates - I think thats a great plan, and I think Nexona is a great encounter to accomplish that. I do think Druushk should be looked into tho, cuz there have been NUMEROUS ideas posted here and on that other site on how to fix, or slightly change this encounter for the better.