Retuning in Veeshan's Peak

Discussion in 'Zones and Population' started by ARCHIVED-Itsumo, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Itsumo Guest

    Recently, there was a change to Veeshan's Peak encounters. These encounters are Nexona and Druushk. These encounters are near the front of the zone, the third and fourth named encounters. I assume that there are more changes to come, and I hope that my words will be heard.

    The current issue is with Druushk. The issue with Druushk is that, in its current state, it is overpowered and bugged. This encounter is blocking every other encounter besides Nexona in the zone that update epic quests, and is completely blocking guilds that are "behind" from getting their epics. This encounter's difficulty is justifiable only for an encounter that would be at the end of Veeshan's Peak, not at the begining.

    Guilds that were already flagged for Veeshan's Peak when Game Update #42 went live are the only guilds that can currently beat Druushk. While these guilds may be the top guilds, and should be ahead based on skill alone, that is not what happened. Druushk was changed after these guilds had already defeated the pre-tuned version of it and have completed their mythical epics. These guilds have their mythicals, and are still having trouble defeating Druushk. The encounter is completely blocking any guild that was not quick enough to beat it before it was changed. The changes included that you will be automatically put into combat during the pull, and that multiple adds from each statue that you have to click can be up at a time. Part of the issue is the extreme, unpreventable randomness of this fight. Making an encounter that relies on luck that the fear will not hit when a statue is active makes the fight rely completely on that not happening. That is completely uncontrollable by the users, and utterly asinine.

    On top of the issues this encounter has by blocking guilds from progressing unless they were fortunate enough to progress before the change and gain the mythicals that they need to defeat the new version, this encounter has a bug that makes it even more difficult than it needs to be. When the statues are clicked, epic x2 adds pop at that location. These adds can pop under the ground and path under the ground to wherever they are going, making it nearly impossible to grab them before they kill someone, who may or may not be required. While there may be ways to work around this bug, it still is a bug that should not have to be worked around.

    I do have some solutions that could be used to make this encounter more feasible for guilds without mythicals from being quick enough to catch it before the change. Firstly, something needs to be done about the pathing bug. If the adds cannot be fixed to not path under the ground, then perhaps they can be changed to a drake instead of a droag, or a devourer; something that flies rather than walks or hovers may prevent them from going under the ground when they spawn. Secondly, the fear area of effect attack would have to be changed to prevent the people clicking the statues from being feared while they have to be clicking to prevent a raid wipe. This can be done in many ways. The auto-engage upon the pull could be removed, so that those four people do not get pulled into combat and thus avoid the area of effect in its entirety. The fear could be changed from a zone wide area effect to a 45-50 meter area of effect, so they are still not getting hit by it. Another way would be to make the fear component itself have a maximum range, like the fear in Protector's Realm, similar to how Mayong Mistmoore's Blanket of Eternal Night works. If you are within 50 meters, you get feared, otherwise you just take damage. Also, that area of effect attack cannot be avoided, even with Area Effect Immunity spells that many classes have. I believe that as well would help prevent the randomness instant-wipe of Fear and Statue at the same time.

    Also, the encounters that involve having to have people constantly clicking widgets to prevent the raid from wiping aren't fun. People should not have to spend their entire time during a raid or an encounter clicking something, rather than actually playing and enjoying themselves. The encounters that use this feature are Druushk and Venril Sathir. On Druushk, you have to have four people out of the fight just clicking on statues as they become active or Druushk will instantly kill your raidforce. On Venril Sathir, you only have to have one person out of the fight clicking on statues to prevent Venril from waking up his statues and wiping the raidforce. These type of encounters are not enjoyable for the people who are forced to click the statues. There are many encounters that require someone to click something, but on those it is only once - completely different than encounters that require people to spend their entire fight clicking. These encounters are Pawbuster's switch to finish him off, Imzok's Revenge's pillars to remove his reflect and stoneskin and Leviathan's Chelsith Stone to kill him. These are one time use clickies and events, and do not make the fights tedious and annoying for those people, they add flavor. I emplore you to remove the forced clickies for the duration of fights, and not use this feature in future fights, as it is asinine.

    Druushk is currently blocking all progression from any guilds who weren't fast enough to get there before the change went live, after epics had been released. This is an issue. This encounter has bugs, and is far too hard to be placed where it has been placed. Nobody wants to spend their raid clicking on widgets rather than raiding. Encounters that force certain classes to be used in abundance due to an ability only they get, such as immunity to fear or feign death, aren't fun, especially if that means you have to backflag to do so. I understand that many people do not raid, and we who raid Veeshan's Peak aren't the majority of players, but we do play because we enjoy the raiding. Please hear us when we beseech your ears.

    Kurayami Takeshi
    Guild Leader of Azure Skies on Antonia Bayle
  2. ARCHIVED-perkins007 Guest

    nice try you wont get the pathing bug fixed , SoE doesnt acknowlege this bug exists , the reason nexona and druushk , were changed is because these 2 mobs include epic updates and if your guild is good enough to get past these 2 mobs your worthy of epic weapons. im not saying this is the best choice but if you think about you can tell SoE's reasoning , haveing compenent players do clicking to prevent raid wipe is fine but haveing them those players effected by major damage and haveiung unable to be helped by the raid is a big over sight , but SoE will never admitt this. dont expect any fix to happen anytime soon SoE is mad that epic weapon were discovered with in the first week of them comeing out , fight this mob for hours on end and reset your timers every time available, this will be fixed in a few months when SoE feels that the time is right for players to get epics , and it will be fixed with no notice to the player community. im not sure but i think this time will come when players get tired of stuff like this happening and move to Warhammer online.
  3. ARCHIVED-quetzaqotl Guest

    I agree with the op, the guilds who didnt go to vp to kill druushk before wednesday last week (for whatever reason) are screwed in comparison to the guild who are fully mythical equipped and fought druushk v.2.0.
    The guilds who killed the druusk v.2.0 and not the druushk v.2.1 and have their mythical weaps already have an unfair advantage compared to other guilds and this advantage grows bigger the more time it takes for SOE to address this.
    Many(/most) of those guilds didnt even fight the druushk v.2.0 properly but exploited the encounter to get their mythical (bc of these guild exploiting the rest of the raiding community without their mythical epics is kinda [I cannot control my vocabulary] now)
    I know SOE doesnt care much about fair/unfair (seen it happen in dof with people lvling to 60 in a day due to that raidzone exploit) but I wish they would all the people wearing their mythical epics which they got from any mob in vp save for nexona don't really deserve their mythical if the encounter stays like it is now imo.
  4. ARCHIVED-TREiBER666 Guest

    /agree with the op

    ppl leaving the game or don't want to raid anymore, because of that ... and i can understand them. Tuning some nameds in VP was a good idea but to change them completly or turn them from easy into hardcore was a big mistake. Beside that, no changes to the loottable were made so a lot of players/raiders (or raidleaders) won't even try to beat this encounter anymore ! And force ppl to simply click things for hours and hours is not fun and a lack of good game-design. thumb down - fix it !
  5. ARCHIVED-Gaellen Guest

    The way I saw it:
    • Druusk 2.0 (the Druusk that was in VP until last Wednesday/Thursday) was quite easily killable.
    • Quite a few guilds found this out, and killed him.
    • Those guilds proceeded to wings 2 and 3, and in about 4 hours got their whole raid force their mythical update.
    • On Thursday, Druusk 2.1 came into play. He's bugged beyond belief.
    • Anybody who didn't beat Druusk 2.0 is now completely blocked from proceeding in the zone. They do not have a raid full of mythicals to help overcome the random bugginess, and they cannot reach the other mobs in the zone to GET some mythicals to help.
    I can't describe the level of frustration I feel over this. There's a thread over on "that other site" with page upon page of posts describing the issues in detail. You can pull this mob 10 times and see 10 completely different things happen, regardless of what your raid force does to try and combat it.
    If this mob is truly meant to be the hardest fight in the game, by all means leave it that way. But please change the conditions required to open the 2nd and 3rd wing door so that we can proceed, as the other guilds were able to, to get our raid force their mythicals.
    Or at the least, post here and tell us we're sol. By all means, we'll find something else to do with our time.
  6. ARCHIVED-TsarRasputin Guest

    The way druushk is is really frustrating me to say the least. I play this game to have fun. I pay a monthly fee to have fun. Mobs like Druushk are not fun, not enjoyable at all. The mob in it's current form is enough to make me say I'd rather be doing something else. It's random, it's buggy, it's got BAD pathing problems. This entire encounter requires a large amount of luck on top of flawless execution. I remember a developer saying a while ago that they didn't want raid encounters to be based on luck as much as skill. Druushk fails at this statement. He's the first mob that makes me consider quitting the game over bad design coupled with the fact that no developer/GM/SoE Employee has commented on the fact that this mob is blocking content from most guilds. The new Nexona, while hard, and while my guild hasn't killed it yet, it is possible, and we're able to make progress each pull. Druushk isn't about progress it's about getting a randomly lucky pull, then maintaining that luck. I would love to get an official comment, if this is working as intended, raiding in this game is taking a turn in the wrong direction
  7. ARCHIVED-Gaellen Guest

    TsarRasputin wrote:
    QFE. If we could at least have an indication somebody was doing something about this there would be a light at the end of the tunnel; right now we're just throwing ourselves at this thing with no real hope of a positive outcome.
    When your choices are to just stop playing till it's fixed, or wipe all night long... it's not cool.
    And it's especially galling when specific guilds, due to luck with their zone timers, got to outfit their whole guild in mythicals. Where's the fairness here? "Though shalt exploit fast and first, or thou shalt be cockblocked forever!"
  8. ARCHIVED-Kizee Guest

    TsarRasputin wrote:
    Double QFE.

    IMO this expansion has been a total flop...

    - Beginning with having to solo to 80 if you wanted to progress at a reasonable rate
    - Lack of progression on items (treasured solo quested items better than fabled raid zone items)
    - End game T8 VP loot not much better than T7 loot.
    - Changing raids so it rewards the people who can get it done faster then roadblock everybody else.

    Do you realize that the people that rushed thru and got their whole guild equiped with Mythicals will have a HUGE HUGE advantage pulling avatars. Everybody knows that whoever get them mastered first really won't have any competition keeping them on farm status since other guilds won't have any time to learn them.

    It wouldn't be that bad if they let us know if this thing will be fixed soon. If it takes a long time to fix then they should strip everybodies mythicals so everybody will be on even ground again.


    I went from logging in as soon as I get home from work until 12 midnight to just logging in for raids and right not I don't even feel like doing that.
  9. ARCHIVED-Peldaar Guest

    I think its the devs reading all the complaints on how easy VP is from all the uber raiders and putting this in as a response ;)
  10. ARCHIVED-Kizee Guest

    Peldaar@Venekor wrote:
    Hard is 1 thing but needing luck and not skill to defeat an encounter needs to go.
  11. ARCHIVED-Vorlak Guest

    i would rather spend my monthly subscription on lottery tickets then fight drusak. (nexiona also has issues with mobs warping thru the world but not nearly as bad).


    Nobody in a raid should have to spend it hunting shineys or spaming statues.


    Silverwing was actully done nicly... You have to at a certain % go make it vunerable to dmg again by clicking 1 item (not spamming the item)... you also have to click the levers to make those wisps not intrupt you (again just once, when you have to run).


    Notice you dont have to assign somebody to have a robo-macro spam an f key while they afk.


    Nexiona sucks - killable but sucks, who wants to hunt shinyes over fighting a dragon?
    -- just make the shineys auto pop and charge the raid, or make them spawn around where you are fighting nexiona. (dont change it to much, just enough to make it enjoyable yet satisfying for everybody, there should be no reason to kick people from raid to spawn x2 adds.)

    and well drusak just makes me want to stop playing. (honestly dont know what you need to do to fix it, even reverting it back to any previous would suck).
    an idea...
    -- put the 4 stautes in the room w/ drusak (so you dont have to run to far to disable them)
    -- perma root drusak w/ summon if outside the entrance of the room.
    -- make the statues glow when they need to be clicked. (every 15% or on a varable timer)
    -- make drusak invuln until all statues disabled.
    -- make 1 x2 add spawn every time somebody dies. (dont make them to uber just enough to remind you to not die)
    -- make 4 heroic butterfly spawn every 45sec (linked) and come from statues. (make them spawn above the statues so they dont get stuck under the world.)
    notice nobody has to stay at the statues spaming them, notice nobody has to run around looking for somehting to click, notice you still have a hard fight where you are stuck in the aoe range of a mob and you have to deal with adds... if you mess up you get x2 adds + heal the mob.
  12. ARCHIVED-Lyndro-EQ2 Guest

    There are some changes we can make to Druusk without trivializing the encounter, to give raids a little more leeway.

    I'm not saying that the adds don't go under the ground sometimes (They very well may, it wouldn't be the first time there were issues with pathing), but they do use a stealth-like ability, which could look a lot like what you are describing.

    The statues and fear should never be active at the same time. Is this something that has actually happened to someone? If so it is a bug that we can address (Although looking at it, I'm not sure what would have caused the bug). Essentially the statues being activated and the fear are related events that can never occur simultaneously.
  13. ARCHIVED-Gaellen Guest

    Ty Mr Lyndro. :)
    Yes, frequently if the statue clickers click the statue the fear still occurs. We've seen this multiple times, as have other guilds posting on "that other site". We have people sitting spamming F (we can even hear them in ventrillo DOING IT), and the fear still hits.
    Most of us raid with see stealth or see invis; if the ability you're talking about adheres to the rules for either of these abilities, the adds are under the world.
    If the adds are supposed to be completely 100% undetectable... um... well. Not sure how to answer that. The adds 1-shot healers and mages, you can't see them coming, you can't tell if they're on their way, and they can go after the statue clickers for no apparent reason.
  14. ARCHIVED-Marillion Guest

    Drusk: The statues should give localized protection to person in clicking, so they are not effected by the AoE or possible target of the spawns ... as the back statues are far to far from the general raid force. The statue clicky is certainly tied to the Fear ... however the highlight is generally late (i.e. after the the statue is active for clicking), resulting in people needing to spam the F key for the entire engagement. Otherwise if you click it when it highlights the aoe goes off before the use command finishes (maybe sequence them with a longer callout on the aoe?).

    Nexona: The only thing that needs to be done with this fight, is the Shiny's being sequenced/scripted order so you move around the scale killers as required. Oh and maybe double check the max damage on Crusader class spells (Harm touch line) for orange epic mobs is a little too deadly with there INT value and Mob vs Player resist check.
  15. ARCHIVED-Kizee Guest

    Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:
    Thanks for the reply.

    He could probably afford to be trivialized quite a bit because its only the first floor of VP. Both these mobs shouldn't be where they are in the zone unless you plan on having the floor 2 and 3 mobs harder than the avatars.
  16. ARCHIVED-Case21 Guest

    Kizee@Befallen wrote:
    Making changes to the remaining dragons would be a very large mistake IMO, with an enormous backlash. If you think the uproar is bad now imagine it if they changed the remaining mobs in the zone to the degree Nexona and Druushk have been. It would no longer be the case of some raids getting their Mythicals from slightly weaker/bug free versions of the current Mobs. Instead, they would of essentially gotten their Mythicals from a different zone.
    Nexona and Druushk are inappropriate encounters for where they are located in VP. If they aren't going to be toned down then the West wing should open after the North wing is cleared and not vice versa, or at very least concurrently.
    Having one person not involved in the actual fight to deal with shinies full time is annoying, having four makes them not want to raid.
    Dru's adds are warping and vanishing under the world. It is very easy to tell by watching them.
  17. ARCHIVED-LardLord Guest

    I think Nexona is fine as is pretty much.
    For Druushk, I think the best solution would be to just do away with the statues and that whole script. Have him spawn the adds automatically or something. Though that'd make the fight quite a bit easier, I think it would still be pretty tough (and maybe fit a little better into the progression), and it would be far less annoying...maybe even a little fun.
    Not sure why you guys at SoE are in love with the idea of making people click statues on raids, but I don't really see how anyone could think it's fun or good game design.
  18. ARCHIVED-Case21 Guest

    Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    Encounters should become more difficult as your progress through a zone. Do you think Nexona is easier then the majority of the remaining zone? It's no different then raids become more difficult as you progress through the tiers.
    She is out of place.
  19. ARCHIVED-SmCaudata Guest

    Elamshinae@Crushbone wrote:
    Well, Leviathan is much harder than the first two VP named. If you look back at old tiers, the mobs weren't exactly in order of difficulty. The tactician's armor was easy. The rumbler and even tender were pretty tough for first floor mobs in EH. Mobs that block off the next wing or floor should probably be as tough or maybe tougher than the mobs on the next floor UNTIL the gatekeeper again. That's fine with me.

    So, what's not fine?

    The fact that these mobs were tuned and released and the guilds that had 7 day per week raid force ready from day 1 launch got to advance through the entire zone, gear up with all that gear, and prepare for these new tough mobs. New guilds, or casual raid guilds are facing these beefed up mobs with largely T7 raid stuff and t8 solo / group loot. Lets face it, with a few exceptions the Tier 1-3 loot does absolutely nothing in the way of gearing you up for VP.

    Poor design from day one and poor changes for 99% of the player base.

    Solutions:
    1. Pay attention to the guilds that will be progressing through content, not the ones that already plowed through it and have the uber gear and mythicals.
    2. Pay attention to itemization. Tiers 1-3 have largely joke for loot and as a guild less than half of the stuff we have seen has actually gotten used, and that is not counting duplicates. I'm talking first time drops for our force being absolutely inferior to old tier or non-raid gear.
    3. Play test the mobs with gear from the appropriate lower tiers.

    I am going to repeat what someone else had posted. I no longer play much at all outside of raids, and raiding isn't even really fun right now as we are stuck on Druushk. This is the first time I have seriously wanted to quit because of CONTENT. Way to go SoE.
  20. ARCHIVED-docpaulpur Guest

    I don't even know where to start. It's getting worse week after week after week.

    Guilds that didn't get their epics right before nexona 2.0 and Druushk 2.1 are blocked from progressing. Spending entire days on Nexona, only to be blocked by an even larger obstacle that is bigger than the chinese wall is long. That leads to people quitting raiding entirely, and as most raiders do not return to happysololand, they just cancel their sub. This happened to 4 of my guildies in the last 3 weeks.

    It will just get worse for each day that passes with content being pushed to live without testing it.

    How far is AoC away? Warhammer online? I can bet that EQ2 subs will drop like a bomb the day that games are out. LU after LU after LU that introduces new bugs, fixed bugs but broken again, bugs that bug bugs and so on. Not to mention nerfs after nerfs after ninjanerfs. All nerfs of course unannounced and untested.

    Who is there to blame? The QA team? the test server players ?

    To fix stuff like this, SoE needs to do the following:

    1.Test stuff before it goes live.
    2.Test stuff before it goes live.
    3.Test stuff before it goes live.
    4.Test stuff before it goes live.
    5.Test stuff before it goes live.
    6.Test stuff before it goes live.
    7.Test stuff before it goes live.
    8.Test stuff before it goes live.
    9.Test stuff before it goes live.
    10.Test stuff before it goes live.

    Each day that points 1 to 10 will not be applied, people will cancel their subs. And it's not only about raiders here. It's about the whole game.