racial traits are being revamped

Rifts@Unrest wrote:

Unfortunately EQ2flames isn't loading correctly for me right now, but Aeralik is the one that posted it. This is the other major thing he has put out on eq2flames (he's a Dev if the name doesn't mean anything to you). After looking this stuff over I think the races are a lot more balanced than people are thinking.
There are admitedly certain races that will be better suited for certain classes, but I think you were naive if you thought your race would never matter in regards to your class. I have some oddball race/class combos myself....both of my 70s don't get much (dwarf brigand, human inquisitor) but I think they did a good job with the revamp and I'm not complaining.
Originally Posted by Aeralik

Gladiia@The Bazaar wrote:

Um... you do know that in the high-end, its all about min/maxing. And you're right, 2% crit really wouldn't be a logical reason to re-roll, but it is a logical reason to complain about getting screwed over.

From what I've seen of the loot, crits will be huge. Seeing how all the pieces seem to either have FT, Regen, Crits, or Spell/Combat damage, crits are amazing. I'm sure there would have been a much bigger uproar if instead of crits they gave, say, +75 spell damage. Very glad the devs didn't do that. But with the loot, I still have yet to see any gear with a proc on it. That means that people trying to push their numbers have to resort to crits and spell damage to make their numbers better, not proc gear. And if that is the case, then +2% crit is still very nice. And I don't know about you, but I'm fairly sure that all people who picked humans would trade away their +skills for a +crits

The sky is falling. There are choices to be made!
Get rid of race abilities, make everything the same. And get rid of classes, make everything the same.
That way race and class are meaningless.

I mean, if a race has 2% more crit or something, that totally makes every other race pointless right? RIGHT?
Gawd, it's not a big deal. And frankly if you want to re roll a toon because of that. You have some serious self esteem issues.
Enjoy the game and stop trying to be some super duper min/maxed character. Because in the end, it really doesn't matter if you got 20 more DPS on that parse.

TheSpin wrote:

Still waiting for the froglok part, but I'll pass that. And yes, I have seen that post by Aeralik (who ironically plays a DE assassin). But all you can really do is compare those 3 abilities. To a scout or fighter, FoI is a much better choice then AoL or BS. For a mage, would definatly see AoL being more useful then FoI, but that is if the player is an erudite. Don't know about you, but I see more gnomes who are mages then erudites. Probably a server thing, but meh.

Azmoran wrote:

There's no way in hell, that I'd want everything to be the same. I would rather pick and choose, customize etc., that way every one is unique. WHat I pick may not be what you would pick, that doesn't make everything the same.

Honestly, you're right it's pointless and it's not a big deal to about half of us. It is not a big deal for myself but I think it is for others. And I don't think just because some one wants to re-roll, that they have self esteem issues... they just want to be successful and that's what drives them.

Rifts@Unrest wrote:

After leveling up an inquisitor and going from 20 battle cleric AA and then picking up that 21st battle cleric point and getting the + to crushing I can tell you that +skills is highly underrated. This +weaopn damage is also more likely to scale up as you level (no, I don't know about this for sure) but the crit% will not increase.
What if your an assassin and you miss even a single combat art? That's a major loss in dps. I definately don't think the +skills should be underplayed as if they are nothing.

Wilin wrote:

You just do not get it do you?! While all other characters classes may be able to get item A that gives +##% to speed while stealth/invis. Dark elves can get item A as well so their stealth/invis speed will be 15%+. Dark Elves will always be the fastest stealth/invis characters. There is one way to combat that. We need a stealth/invis speed cap of about 25%, like we have an in/out combat speed cap of 100%. Another way would be to change every stealth/invis spell/ability so it reduces a characters speed, instead of taking all speed boosting effects away. That was the original way that stealth/invis worked.

Rifts@Unrest wrote:

My main point in showing that link to Aeraliks post is that the +combat art/spell damage component has been removed from Fury of Innoruk. It's not the overpowering ability people thought.
Sorry about the froglok thing, still hitting reload on EQ2flames and it's not coming up, but Aeralik did state that froggies get +2% double attack.

Personally, I dont mind having a fair bit of variation between races, providing every class gets SOME useful traits.
Whats annoying to me, is that I enjoy playing my wood elf bruiser, and Im losing the only trait that decent for a tank, the wind warrior def/parry innate increase.
Increased drink and snare resistance are fine, but each race should have some with a bit more meat, like the dark elf etc.

TheSpin wrote:

I don't think that anyone stated that the +skills are nothing. As a bard, I can tell you right now that +skills are very important because we are the only scout class that don't get a stance with bonuses for us. However, +skills only matter much when you are raiding. As long as you get you're skills up to the max (350 right now, 400 next), you should be able to hit everything with a huge majority of hits vs misses. Heck, I've seen a mage (probably not the smartest idea, heh) meleeing against the final mob in Unrest and still hitting for a good 90%+ of all his melee hits, and he was only at 350.

But please, don't associate weapon damage with +skills, seeing how they have nothing in common what-so-ever. As for the assassin, you're right there. If he misses a decap without J-cap up, that's huge. However, my guilds assassin has over 400, so that rarely, if ever happens. Though, to be honest, I'm not exactly sure if the skills effect combat arts or just auto-attack. Hopefully, for you're example, its the first. But ya know, I'm sure that most assassins would go for a +2% crit over a +7pierce.

Rifts@Unrest wrote:

I would actually have to say that + to skills is even MORE important for a non-raider than +2% to crits. That + skill gear is the difference in hitting yellows versus not hitting them. And when you aren't raiding the fights don't last long enough for an extra 1 crit in every 50 attacks to make a difference.

Rifts@Unrest wrote:

From playing a melee priest, I know without a doubt that +weapon skills effect combat arts. Until a melee priest gets his +weapon skill end line ability his damage output is completely random because if he misses a single combat art he has to wait between 8 and 20 seconds to try for another swing (and those swings are powerful with 100% to crit).
It's also very possible that mobs in RoK will have better defensive skills and that weapon skill will matter more. People are complaining about how difficult some of the new content is and maybe that will apply to landing attacks as well. Even if the +7 to weapon skill only helped you land 2% more attacks it offsets any benefit you would get from +crit.

TheSpin wrote:

That is very true - I definately remember the big difference on my inqy when I finally got the +crushing. My CAs were missing often enough to be a real pain before then, and afterwards, it was so much easier. + skills is very beneficial....even +5 is very helpful.
In the end if you arent LANDING at minimum 25 blows each and every fight, the +2% crit is going to be worse than + skills. If you are hitting a mob more than 50 times every single fight, then yeah, the + crits is gonna be more benefit I think. Again, this is assuming these skills aren't already capped out.
I also remember something about +CA damage equipment being added with RoK (dont know if this is still true or not). I don't know if +damage is multiplied with crits or not, but if not, then there is another factor in it becoming equally important to ensure all your blows are landing in addition to the crits - try it out. While some of these things may not be what we consider as important now, it may not be true in a month - who knows what exactly we will be depending on for the best damage output in a month.

Dragowulf2 wrote:

Oh, please tell me they didn't remove Super Hop from frogloks, that was about the only thing I was looking forward to with this revamp.

I checked the lists, no idea if they are updated or not.... but then it looked like it was still there under frogloks. Kerra and Sarnak did not have it, though.

TheSpin wrote:

I don't know how someone can look at these and say, with a straight face, these are equivelent. The Bayle's Strike, with it's one minute re-use and damage so low I don't think that using it would actually raise my dps. So if I had it, I actually wouldn't put it on my hotbar. Fury of Innoruk, on the other hand, is still really nice. With it's instant cast I would stack it on top of my other long re-use abilities. In fact, what I might well do is space it out with my other long re-use haste, so then I always have a long re-use haste ready for when inspiration pops.

I know how to balance the mentioned abilities. The biggest discrepancy between the DE/Arasai racial and the other ostensibly equivalent damage abilities is that FoI is a buff that only has to be cast once every 5 minutes. FoI does not interrupt AA or the CA cycle, meaning it is pure damage even if it's not spectacular. Taking Bayle's Strike as an example, however, it does potentially interrupt your existing combat routine, and uses power each time. For such a low damage attack, you might even come off decreasing your damage if you use it even as you use your power.

The solution is to turn the DD abilities into proc buffs. For Bayle's Strike, 500-700 damage that procs on average 1/min is not spectacular, but it's not bad either, and it lacks the damage reducing downsides of a combat art you have to use manually. Arc of Lightning could proc off spells 1/min and do 270-400 ae damage. This simple change could really solve a lot of problems.

EvilIguana966 wrote:

This is a good idea....especially considering Bayle's strike, but every other diect damage ability has an additional effect such as a piercing debuff, mitigation debuff, stun etc. So it might not work well for those races. If the humans and the two classes with the DD+Dot had their ability turned into a proc it wouldn't be a bad idea, but I think they're ok now as well.

The aoes shouldn't be turned into a spell proc, i think they are okey now because their damage was really to low, only bad thing about those is the lore issue, i still don't know why elves get a fire based spell, why not divine or just magic(even the useless melee proc high elves had bevore was divine)? escpecially forest fire sounds like an insult to the race.

EvilIguana966 wrote:

Something along those lines certainly makes sense to me.

Please make it where we can choose from anything! Dont wanna be the one to complain but some people got the shaft.

choose between like
4% melee crit,
4% Ranged Crit
4% Double attack
4% Spell Crit
4% Heal Crit
2% Spell Crit, 2% Melee Crit
2% Ranged Crit, 2% Melee Crit
2% Spell Crit, Heal Crit
2% Melee Crit, Double Attack
and the second stat
+10 Ministration
+10 Slashing
+10 Defence
+10 Crushing
+10 Parry
+10 Defence
+10 Piercing
or
+5 Crushing / Defence

something like that
Some Races Should Only Get Some to Choose, But Having just some left out is [I cannot control my vocabulary], this is one of the biggest FU's Ive ever seen in some cases.
___
Scout Races
4% Double Attack
4% Melee crit Chance (Choose between one, or 2% of half, or 1% of all 3)
4% Ranged Crit Chance
___
Fighter Races:
4% Melee Crit
4% Double attack
4% Chance to Parry
__
Ect.. this is just an idea..
But I believe we should beable to choose from all abilitys what we want, to what our race (could) do, I understand like iksars Scales +5 Defence, Sarnak could get that too!, Or Fury of Innoruk (btw.. Wheres Tunare?)
Some Races got the shaft because of this and everyone knows it, Please fix this before you lose customers SOE!