pvp server going down fast

Discussion in 'PvP TLE Discussion' started by MissGreen, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. MissGreen Member

    So I'm from the OG nagefen. what I have realized is that nothing is balanced, this is the cheap escape to get the server back and a fast money call from the dev's.. I'm sorry but it's true. Over half of the server has already left because there is no real rewards...none zero.

    I just don't fully see how this server can carry on even thought it takes little to keep the lights on (server) but why waste it. we all warned you that it would be a fail and here we are. why not just make it as it was meant to be? I mean what got into your heads to change it??? its not about that..its about learning to adapt. in this server there is not time to even breath a second to realize you are getting wasted by another guy/girl.

    So can we possibly change this into what it was meant to be???? A triumph and a victory on all sides. Because this server is wrong and if something's wrong it ain't right.

    oh and half the guilds left already because of this bulshit.
    Soara2 likes this.
  2. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    The server is in a decent spot balance wise. Some itemization of treasured items is a bit questionable. The biggest blunder was instant disco xp and then turning it off afterwards to prevent those that missed it from a quick way to catch up, hindsight is always 20/20 though. I'd love to see the server given double xp for a week or two. General class balance is solid and changes are happening quickly which is awesome and a great sign. Other than that and maybe the initial Seraph of Stags respawn timer Im pretty happy with the launch, little disappointed at the turnout. Stoked to be playing again honestly

    In my opinion, population is a little light especially compared to Kaldadims numbers. Upon DoF launch(of Nagafen) Kaladim players who made it to max level should be able to claim a token giving them an instant level 50 with MC and experts on Nagafen. It might encourage population growth without harming the current server, 4 months is a lot of time to be in classic. Some might be interested and it shouldnt be hard to implement.
    Soara2 and Breanna like this.
  3. Siren Well-Known Member

    Balance-wise on gear, I agree with you, we're doing pretty well at least in T1, T2 and T3 so far, but awesome stats on some Treasured gear just means lower purchase prices on the broker so I've nabbed some good deals that way at least.

    Not everyone wants to rush to 50 by far. This is an MMORPG, not a BR game. I have made it a point to Inspect practically everyone I can whenever I port back to Qeynos, and practically everyone is still in T2-- hasn't hit L20 yet. I'm one of the higher level ones running around @L25. You do see a few 50s darting to and fro though, too, but no one in the middle yet. We're still only in the first week here.

    As far as the low server pop at launch, this has everything to do with the recipe for disaster that was the Nagafen beta. It was a bunch of unfortunate events, and the gankers were most at fault for it.

    I was shocked to see how many people during beta commented here on the forums and on Discord that they had either never played EQ2 before, or not since early original Nagafen. All of those new and long-gone players were horrified to zone into the game from character creation/the ship and get endlessly ganked by camped 6 mans of oranges....Yeah.

    Besides spawning each player into the game at L10 (after the first day) so they were flagged for PvP right away, players also spawned with 5 plat just to help speed progress along for the beta (which newbies probably wouldn't even realize they had). The gankers would one-shot the newbies, get the plat, and keep getting the same high XP off continually killing the same newbies over and over, too.

    This is what betas are for, and all that stuff got fixed. You don't get XP for killing someone more than once now which is good, of course no one spawns with any plat, and you spawn as a level 1 and don't get flagged for PvP til 10. But it's kinda too late-- everyone fled the beta, and the only reputation live Nagafen has is that a bunch of hyperactive kiddies exploited cash shop XP pots and became instant L50s.

    I'm sticking it out and having a lot of fun, as are a bunch of other people. Hopefully word gets out not only about the beta fixes, but that discovery XP has been nerfed, and maybe next season will be better. It's a good thing at this point that Nagafen is getting wiped in 11 more weeks, to erase all the L50 exploited characters. I just hope the devs don't give up. EQ2 without a PvP server is a major drag. Even with all the growing pains, Deathtoll was going in the right direction with all its mods, and Nagafen has embraced most of those (no fast travel, no guild halls, no BGs or PvP gear, no or few AAs, etc.), thankfully.

    Clearly even the exploting 50s were initially willing to level to cap every month (although I think there should be more time in between expansions barring more XP exploits) or they wouldn't have shown up to begin with.
  4. Eradani Well-Known Member

    i'm in a guild where everyone is t1-t3 and it rocks in FP also. everyone who isn't in a hurry to end game is also having fun.

    have to agree with you about itemization being weird. legendary/fabled mean nothing except people think they should cost more on the broker. i've already ditched all my lvl 12 MC for lvl 10 Treasured - very weird

    biggest wish is that people would pick up advanced ts books and put them on the broker

    /wave kill ya later :D
    Siren likes this.
  5. Siren Well-Known Member

    What we really need is the (missing) t3 Butcherblock crafting questline quest giver moved into FFS with the t2 quest giver NPC. Then we could buy the t3 advanced recipes, too.

    The server is getting wiped in 11 more weeks, and the Butcherblock zone doesn't go in until EoF, so who knows if we'll ever see it. You'd think moving the Butcherblock crafting quest giver would have been a given. Clearly they want to give us access to advanced recipes, or t1 and t2 advanced recipes wouldn't be available for purchase on those crafting NPCs.
  6. Eradani Well-Known Member

    they just need a better drop rate on ts books AND for adventurers to pick them up for the broker
  7. Siren Well-Known Member

    A lot of them on the broker are already 1 plat each. Screw the broker, lol.
    Breanna likes this.
  8. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    I mean I am one of those kiddies that rushed level 50. Disco XP should not have been even close to what it was but turning it off after was a silly decision. Gave people no way to catch up. That being said I think if they didn't flub the XP on launch server would be looking pretty good!
    MissGreen likes this.
  9. Satyr Well-Known Member

    I'm happy and I'm enjoying the server. The developers have done some excellent work, and this is leaps and bounds better than Deathtoll was. I also appreciate that along the way some QOL improvements have been made (i.e. fixes for wands) and that the developers have been very responsive to feedback (fixing identified broken contesteds, lifting the level of prismatics etc).

    As Kazzo mentioned, there are always going to be some niggles on TLE, the developers are aware of them, but in totality I'm really enjoying the server. I think the token is an excellent suggestion. The only other suggestion I'd make going forward is to leave DoF itemisation as is. The blue stats are fairly balanced (unlike the stat allocations in Shattered Lands which, to be fair, were a bit wacky) and because there are fewer procs, the gear is a little boring in DoF without blue stats.
    Breanna likes this.
  10. Jeremyah New Member

    What the server really needs is class PVP gear again, delete all raid gear, and get rid of this stupid character wipe idea.

    Here's why:

    Character wipes only serve those hardcore PVErs on the very top who have 16 hours a day and an organized RAID force to max gear, spells, and get prismatics within a week. They say it creates an even playing field? That could not be further from the truth. As it stands now, the only even playing field happens when the average player has time to catch up in levels, gear, and spells with the hardcore PVErs. This will never happen under the current plan. Wiping will not prevent them from grinding to the top within a week after each expansion or wipe, only serving to keep the massive gap between an already small population on the server.

    Last i checked this was supposed to be a PVP server. So why is it that hardcore PVEing is being rewarded and encouraged!?

    Everyone at 50 has had to spend this entire first week just doing HQs to try and even begin to compete....with zero incentive to PVP against raid gear and prismatics. This is insane. Am I the only one who realizes this?

    I suggest you bring PVP rewards back in the form of tokens, points, whatever you want. Also make items you earn from PVP scale with you as you level, this way you can start pvping at level 10 and never stop. There is no reason we should be doing much of anything else on this server. Tradeskills can still be good for spells and consumables, but the best gear for PVP should come from actually PVPING!
    MissGreen, Duprey and Gillymann like this.
  11. Gillymann Well-Known Member

    This is the drum I've been beating, but....to no avail.

    This Nagafen concept was (IMHO) not well considered.

    Good PVE and good PVP systems are at odds with each other. Fun PVE requires power progression in addition to skills progression, i.e. you increase the capabilities of your itemization to take on more challenging content.

    Fun PVP (for ~everyone~) requires folks to start off on the same footing power-wise, and puts the emphasis on skills, tactics, cleverness. This is why BR environments work.

    Inevitably, posts like yours bring out the "What made EQ2 pvp special was the pve with pvp environment - drop the seasons and give us old Naggy!"

    .....Forgetting that Venekor, Vox, and Nagafen all died of attrition. And no, BG's didn't kill Nagafen - if people enjoyed pvp on Nagafen, they would pvp'd there and avoided BG's. Had BG's not existed, players may likely have moved to another game for pvp - i.e. see Venekor and Vox).

    Baring permanent defections from the server to other games or BG's, the other argument is BG gear killed the game, which translated means, "I deserve to win because I put the time in to get raid geared."

    To their credit, the Dev's have tried to constrain large character power imbalances with all kinds of little indirect means. However, they also introduced a P2W component with experience potions, which simply reinforces and incentivizes the advantages PVE progression systems offer to gain an advantage in pvp. Dumb for all kinds of reasons. Just dumb.

    Seasons don't matter, because the same problems are resurfacing. People will fork out cash to get to end game faster so they can get a jump on gear and gain an advantage. Meanwhile, the fame fodder will grow weary of logging in only to be wiped by better geared or higher level players. So in the end, you'll have a small number of stacked players and a dead server.

    if you want a pvp server to be fun and successful, you've got to make it fun for everyone, and that includes casuals.

    I know some casuals are just fine with the current design, and that's cool. To each their own.

    Still, I would think a lot of folks might want to log in for a couple of hours, have some fun, and actually win some fights. This design doesn't support this.

    I really wish this company would stop recycling existing assets and come up with something that is actually new, interesting, and fun.

    This server....is a mess.
    Duprey likes this.
  12. Duprey Member

    The last two posts are prolly the best posts i have read about the pvp server. Its how i feel but addressed way more properly than i could lol. I was excited about pvp as i was a naggy day 1 player years ago. But i left after level 15, there wasnt hardly any fights and i didnt wanna get facerolled nonstop by the raiders because of a gear disparity.
  13. Zarnafien Active Member

    I played in beta and it was the first time I have ever PVP'd in a game. I had a blast.

    What lent me to not join the live release is the 3 month wipe. I played beta because I hoped DBG would listen to the vast majority of players who were against the wipe. The server lost a lot of people when they found out about the wipe.

    They kept it in so I'm on Kaladim.
    Siren likes this.
  14. Siren Well-Known Member

    Jeremyah and Gillyman:

    I appreciate your thoughtful posts, however, you are talking about *rewards* for PvP. That is not the same thing as actually *PvPing.* We play on Nagafen for the fun of PvPing.

    EQ2 is not a Battleground. PvP is not the only thing in this game. It is an extra feature of EQ2 on open PvP server Nagafen, which is an MMORPG that also contains leveling, crafting, harvesting, adventuring and dungeoning. This is what makes it so much better than other PvP genres like FPSs, MOBAs and Battle Royale games for a lot of us.

    If you want to go play games in other more streamlined genres that focus more exclusively on PvP, you might like Apex Legends, Fortnite, Overwatch or Call of Duty.

    Daybreak does not have the manpower or resources to keep a 2nd type of gear running (PvP gear), which is why it was eliminated. Besides that, PvP gear messed up open world PvP by having no PvE stats on it, and by being a reward for BGs (and BGs themselves also killed open world PvP).

    It would be cool if they added more titles (if it was possible to track how many times someone runs away, they could make one called "Title Hugger" for the one who does that the most, and maybe a main class title for Priests with X kills (or heals/buffs if that could be tracked, which I doubt), and a unique Warrior title, Mage title and Scout title, etc.

    Clearly, practically everyone is against server wipes; it's the single biggest complaint about Nagafen. Personally, I would activate more accounts if my characters were permanent. I feel they could get a lot of new subs that way. Even a new bronze player converting to a sub to come to Nagafen wouldn't be "behind" the vets account-wise because we don't have our /claims here anyway.

    I understand totally Daybreak's wanting to prevent too much player power from building up, because that's how new players, latecomers and casuals all get run off a PvP server. However, here on current Nagafen, PvP XP is so good that it's not really possible to level lock and twink at low levels, even if people shut off adventure and quest XP. Perfecting and twinking characters naturally happens at end game cap here as it should, letting newcomers and casuals gradually catch up and enjoy the whole game on the way to the top. Sure, there's a difficulty bump at end game until you get geared, but that happens in every PvP MMORPG everywhere, and every other PvP game genre too. At least people are pretty invested in their characters by the time they hit that bump. (They would of course be much moreso if Nagafen were made permanent.)

    With PvP XP unable to be shut off, I don't really understand the need for 3 month seasonal wipes. I mean, TLs get nuked every couple years or so as new ones launch, and old characters get merged into live. I don't see why we can't be doing that.
  15. Satyr Well-Known Member

    The above posts are the reason why I'm glad that the developers don't often take player feedback on board. I do agree with generally with Siren.
    Xiao and Siren like this.
  16. Restrained New Member

    Yup totally agree, pvp server should be about PvPing to get the best gear. They could even just take raid gear set pieces and make them purchasable with PvP tokens. Then they wouldn’t have to make anything from scratch and it would incentivize more PvP
    Jeremyah likes this.
  17. Gillymann Well-Known Member

    Yes, I am talking about rewards. Most notably, that the ***activity**** of pvping should be rewarding...for everyone. If it is for you, great. I'm not telling you what you should like or not like.

    I also have history on my side to support my argument. 3 pvp servers designed exactly the way you and others have called for have died to attrition. Period.

    My very first MMORPG game was EQ2 on Vox. I played there for years, and I had a great time....for a while.

    I never said the solution was an easy one. I already outlined why (several times, actually).

    Nonsense. They've been running a button punch script to update every single piece of gear in the game since at least last fall. If they deleted the old pvp gear templates, well, grab some existing art, stick a new name on it, and punch the button.

    I agree with you on this. This pve/br hybrid idea does not work. Players on both sides of the spectrum are turned off by it. If they had listened to the feedback prior to and during beta, they could have avoided this fail.

    Thus my comments about experience pots.

    To be clear, I'm not arguing that you folks shouldn't get a tle version of old Nagafen if that's what you want. What I am saying is those servers died for a reason, and I'm not personally interested. If you and others want to continue to hang your hat on the idea that server wipes killed this server before it even started, well, go ahead.

    What I am saying is this current design satisfies no one. I would have been perfectly happy if they had level capped at 30 or 40. Let people build out AA's, and designed the entire reward system around fun little pvp events, tournaments etc.

    Instead, all they've done is introduce a p2w mechanic that incentivizes the major problems inherent within pve with pvp environments that drive people away.
    Jeremyah likes this.
  18. Gillymann Well-Known Member

    Feedback is useful.

    Feedback from more than the smallest segment of your customer base is even more useful, if you're revenue is generated from players other than the smallest segment of your customer base.

    See current game population.


    By the way, this server wasn't pitched as Nagafen TLE. It was pitched as a something that was to be different. My suggestions have been with that spirit in mind.
  19. Jeremyah New Member

    Im not saying get rid of PVE elements, im saying have the best PVP gear come from actually PVPing. Seems pretty logical to me. There is 0 incentive to go out and pvp against prismatics and hardcore PVE raid guilds. Its hitting a brick wall for 0 reward, absolutely pointless. Only option is to PVE to try and catch up, which again, works directly against the whole point of this server and why there is very little PVP actually happening on Nagafen right now.

    I don't know about other people who like PVP, but I didnt sign up for a PVP server to have to raid and run PVE content all day everyday to be competitive. Especially when the season is so damn short. Its really stupid.

    So we spend 3 weeks leveling, gearing, getting spells maxed, then pvp for a week before next expansion? Then rinse repeat for 2 months, then delete, then rinse repeat? WTF, seriously WTF?!

    If there were scaling pvp rewards from level 10, people would start pvping at 10 and there would be non stop pvp at all tiers into end game. Just saying...
    Soara2 likes this.
  20. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    Oh I'm so excited to respond to this idiocy.

    1) You have no history on your side. PvP servers began to die with the separation of PvP and PvE gear. Raiders could no longer participate in PvP. PvP'ers were no longer doing PvE content. This is a PvE game with PvP turned on.

    2) You have yet to offer a valid solution to any of the problems you've listed. This is not nor will it ever be a genre that rewards players for playing casually. That isn't how an MMO works. You invest time and you progress. If you don't like it, just go play League of Legends.

    3) PvP gear should have never existed. The idea that implementing a set of gear that is directly gained from pvp is a terrible idea because then you begin down the path of the old servers. OG Nagafen was bleeding out well before BG's were ever introduced. If you want to only kill people, play a different game.

    4) Character wipes. Realistically this shouldn't matter, 90% of players wont log on after the server closes. That being said I understand why you and other players would be interested in keeping your characters. I imagine this to be difficult because Nagafen and Kaladim are coded differently. This means a direct character transfer is probably impossible or very unlikely. I believe the smart thing to do would be run the 3 month season. Go ahead and wipe, then for the next season/tle(My vote is a TLE) find a way to allow players to keep their characters. Even if that means shipping them to a dead separate server(think drunder but for TLE/Seasonal characters)

    5) Not sure if you know what P2W means but buying a potion to increase XP is not P2W. It is pay to quicken/catch up but by no means does an XP potion make you win so not even sure why you're spewing that ish

    TL;DR: You have literally zero idea what you're talking about. Your facts about PvP servers history is wrong. Your ideas to fix the game are wrong because they do not address the actual issues.

    Are you trolling or just don't understand what I've explained to you multiple times both here and on discord. Everquest 2 is not a PvP game nor will it ever be. PvP is never going to be balanced. This game is a PvE game in which you advance to progress your character while battling against other players for that progression. Having players rewarded through PvP eliminates the PvE portion of the game entirely. This game has too much depth for such an injustice to be done. You want a populated game? There actually has to be a game to play. PvP is not the game, Everquest 2 is.
    Errrorr and Siren like this.

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