pvp server going down fast

Discussion in 'PvP TLE Discussion' started by MissGreen, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    Or you could have the best gear come from open world mobs and contesteds so players have a reason to venture out into the world. Acquire gear, all while PvPing? If you ever thought you could log in and play on an even playing field your notions of this server were extremely misled and this probably isn't the game for you.

    Just so you know, I am one of those hardcore nerds. Disco'd pris on my monk, I still have 500 something kills. You can do both believe it or not. It isn't one or the other.
  2. Jeremyah New Member

    Well said by a hardcore PVEr lol

    I said the same thing back in KoS/RoK days, and I have been fighting the good fight ever since. Hardcore PVE raid guilds ruin PVP in this game. That was the sole downfall to Nagafen.

    I enjoyed years of 95% PVP on old nagafen. We used to call it "washing dishes" when we had to do anything else, because thats what PVE felt like to us.

    So I don't know what history you remember, but it certainly is not the one I and many others remember.

    You could literally run solo every day without a guild, kill people and earn gear enough to be competitive against anyone on the server. This is why the population was so healthy back then. Because it did not matter when you logged on or who you logged on with. You could get in some pvp, earn some tokens, progress towards better gear and be competitive.

    Solo, duo, in a group, in a raid. The point was, people were pvping and progressing at the same time.

    Not spending 95% of their time locked in instances, pulling raid mobs, running HQs, doing horrendously long quest lines and pre-requisite quests.

    Old Naggy died when they tried to get cute with the PVP/Raid gear and added BGs. Before that it was absolutely the golden age of PVP and pristine from level 10 to max level.

    I never said you have to make PVP gear not usable in PVE, or vice versa. The separation did mess things up, but there was a long time when there was no separation, just different paths to the same or well... similar goals.

    Let me ask you this.... What is meant to be the single best way to earn EXP on this new server based on it being a NEW PVP focused server. ITS PVP!!!! This server is NO LONGER a PVE game with pvp unlocked as you claim. That is old and failed thinking.

    So if PVP exp is meant to be the best way to now level your character and progress, why would itemization also not be tied directly to PVP as well? Seems pretty logical to me. Just because you are afraid to lose your hardcore PVE advantage on a PVP server, does not give you the right to come in here and belittle people and claim their ideas idiocy. It really does nothing more than discredit you as a poster on these forums.

    For me and many others, we would prefer that the best way to not only progress in level but in itemization, be PVP (being this is a seasonal PVP server). You all are so stuck on the old idea of this is a PVE game with PVP unlocked......that thinking and those servers have failed every time. So why do you think this will be any different? I am really curious...

    Oh that's right, because the way it is now is the only way that seems to work for hardcore PVE guilds who can just come in and copy/paste their 15 year old strats, rely HEAVILY on superior gear and numbers, and dominate on a server they are going to be solely responsible for ruining.

    Have fun cannibalizing yourselves in another week or so...
    Rustiiee and Gillymann like this.
  3. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    I still am #11 on the leaderboards helllllo? I've done both, why can't you?
  4. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    I could come in and dominate your face even without ever having done a raid lmao.
  5. Dude Well-Known Member

    The single biggest problem with PvP in EQ2 is that people have wildly different ideas about what it "should" be. This thread is a great illustration of that.
    • Some want pure PvP with little or no PvE.
    • Some want mainly PvE with the added danger of PvP.
    • Some want open world PvP.
    • Some want the open world to be PvE with all PvP in something like BGs.
    • Some want PvP gear that is earned only through PvP.
    • Some believe that PvP gear makes the rest of the game meaningless.
    • Some want gear to be meaningless, so that the PvP is only skill vs skill.
    • etc ...
    Is the current server perfect? Nope. There is no such thing.
    Is the current server meeting the desires of most people? That's yet to be seen.
    Soara2, Raff, Breanna and 1 other person like this.
  6. Siren Well-Known Member

    The thing is, all those wanting a game from a different genre ("make it like a Battle Royale game!" "make it like a MOBA!" etc.) are out in left field. This is an MMORPG and it will always be one. No dev team is going to magically change the genre of a 15 year old MMORPG. They aren't even doing engine upgrades anymore, so get real.

    Also, the limited dev team size and resources prevent PvP gear from returning, and it was a disaster for the original PvP server anyway (already mentioned here by multiple people so I'm not detailing why yet again).

    Deathtoll-like limitations (no guild halls, leapers/flyers/fast travel, etc.) combined with gear and class balance sweeps, all added into the new TL customization tools Daybreak is developing, are where we're going and are the best anyone can expect.

    The type of PvP that leaves us with (open world, mixed in with adventuring/dungeoning for gear drops, plus harvesting and crafting for totems, spell and skill upgrades, and misc. secondary gear support) is what we are getting, period.

    Luckily, most playing here understand that already and/or are happily playing that way. A few people making demands for absurd changes isn't going to change anything, thankfully. Those few people should realize that they can A.) play more than one game in more than one genre concurrently, and B.) other genres like BR, FPS and MOBA should interest them more than they currently do.
  7. Gillymann Abusive Relationships Aren't Healthy. J S.

    Incorrect. See Venekor. See Vox. Choices reveal preferences. Take a moment and actually think about that.

    Wrong again. Do you you know how to do a search on these forums?

    You just made one of my key points. Thanks!

    I could care less about character wipes.

    P2w = spending real money to gain an advantage. Exp pots are not that big of a deal on a pve server. On a pvp server, it is, and you know it. That's exactly you did it.

    Being arrogant and insulting does not make you right or credible (quite the opposite).

    Again, this server idea was never pitched as Nagafen TLE. Not once. It was pitched as an experiment with something different. My suggestions have been within that spirit. My suggestions were just that, my suggestions.

    If people want a pvp TLE even though the old pvp design failed, /shrug.

    To each their own.
  8. Dude Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah, the other thing wrong is that all of those people with wildly different ideas believe they are 100% right and everyone else is 100% wrong.
    Soara2 and Breanna like this.
  9. Gillymann Abusive Relationships Aren't Healthy. J S.

    One of the problems with these forum debates is that posts and responses are splashed all over the place.

    In many ways, you and I actually aren't that far apart on this matter, but we do have one fundamental difference of opininion, so I'll summarize why I've taken the position I have:

    As I mentioned, this offer was NEVER represented as PVP TLE. It was represented as a ****PVP**** seasonal event. So all the suggestions I have made have been within that context.

    Yet, from day one, we've had folks coming here asking for basically what amounts to a Nagafen TLE.

    Regarding the old game design, I appreciate what folks are saying about pve with pvp. EQ2 was was my first MMO, and Vox was my first mmo server. And for awhile I had a pretty good time...until I burned out.

    Here's how it went: New expac -> race to end game -> raid.

    After a while, i had neither the time nor the energy to raid 3-4 times a week.

    If you want a healthy pvp server, it's gotta be fun for everyone, not just the raiders. Think about it this way, lets say it's boss #1 of raid progression. But everytime you show up, and no matter what improvements you've made, he stays more powerful than you, and so you can never beat him.

    Would you find that rewarding? If that was the case, would you eventually stop logging in and find something else to do? What would be the point?

    That is what I am saying is the fundamental problem that led to death of all three servers. The first couple if years, it was great. Tons of peeps at all levels. But by EoF, the raiders enjoyed such an imbalance of power that the every day Joe stopped bothering. By the end RoK, Vox was mostly dead.

    BG's and PVP gear offered people a way to gear up and be competitive outside of raiding. This should have been good for the server. And yet, more and mire people were prefering BG's to open world pvp. Logically, they did so because they preferred that environment for pvp. Had BG's been shut-off to Nagafen, there is no assurance they would have returned to open world pvp. It's more likely they would have went in search of something else. I'm not saying the gear issues didn't help thing along, however, I am saying that was more symptomatic than causal.

    You and I seem to have a fundamental difference of opinion about what pvp should be. You appear to be ok with accumulating substantive imbalances in character power through levels and itemization. My point is, that might be fun for you, but it's not likely fun for the other guy. And when the other guy is not having fun, he stops logging in. So, over time, we end up with a small number of stacked players on a dead server.

    I reference BR environments, not because I want one, but because they illustrate a design that eliminates gross imbalances in character power as an advantage, and by doing so, shifts the focus more toward winning with skill and cleverness. It's accessible to everyone.

    My suggestions for this pvp seasonal event have been focused on features that I hoped might make it fun for a wider audience and provide greater staying power.

    If I want pve with pvp, I'll hop over to another game and zone into cyrodill where I can run quest lines, contested dungeons, slink around the zone, or, jump into seiges. The point is, better substitutes exist today, and so I find the calls to return to a broken design baffling. However, I do understand the nostalgia, so perhaps a TLE might work. I'm skeptical, but I concede I might be wrong.

    Regarding the exp pots, yeah, in this server environment, they are a p2w mechanic. I'm not so much upset with players using them than I am with DBG dropping them in. I was so hoping that this server was going to be a fun little pvp event with no p2w incentive to hit the cash shop.
  10. Siren Well-Known Member

    No, it's that the people making all these impossible suggestions are refusing to acknowledge that the dev team is way too small and the game is too old and impossible to change that drastically, from an MMORPG to a completely different genre. Never mind that the players who play it love it as it is: an MMORPG.
  11. Dude Well-Known Member

    A while back you were told exactly the same thing about PvP ever coming back. *shrug*
  12. Gillymann Abusive Relationships Aren't Healthy. J S.

    If the Dev team had wanted Nagafen TLE, they would have offered it. It would have been a lot less work.

    Have you considered that this seasonal event is >intended< to experiment with different design ideas? Perhaps for something new down the road?

    Have you considered that your resistance to anything that is not what existed in the past is not actually helping them?

    Perhaps the server wipes are happening for good reason?

    I'm no fan of this particular design, but, I do give the team credit for at least trying (even if does smell a bit of cash grab).

    Seems to me, it's you and some others who are making unrealistic and unhelpful demands.

    Dude likes this.
  13. MissGreen Member

    wow, I didn't expect all these replies. 31 in a few days, I'm gonna have to read through them all.
  14. Rustiiee New Member

    I'm sorry but no. That is just like when they let all of the PVE server participate in battlegrounds. Half the people would do their zones uncontested on their safe pve server and do battlegrounds when they felt like it collecting gear etc while the rest of us are like R Kelly and fighting for our lives in contested zones. Then these pve kids change servers decked out in a full set of pvp gear and think they are good. I am totally against your idea of giving people that havent struggled to get to 50 on Naggy a easy pass because they grinded it out on a pve server.
    Siren likes this.
  15. Duprey Member

    Xp pots and disco xp. The struggle is real
  16. Siren Well-Known Member

    A lot of us haven't done that, though. Most of the server is still in t2 or just entering t3, and you see a lot of t1 players running around town, too.

    But yeah, those L50 cash shop pot exploiters have given Nagafen a bad name coming out of the gate, and any chance the rest of us had of asking Daybreak for more time in between expansions (only a month?! Really?!) will be clouded by their whines that they're bored. I hope Daybreak ignores them when they consider the timing for each expansion.
  17. Satyr Well-Known Member

    Insulting half the server isn't going to get you anywhere. I'm the leader of the largest guild of 50s on the server. I can assure you that I and a majority of my members would have preferred a 2/2/2 or 1/2/3 unlock. You're wrong.
    Gillymann likes this.
  18. Gillymann Abusive Relationships Aren't Healthy. J S.

    And this is the problem with this server concept. You have the hard core pvp crowd saying "Just get me to end game and lets start fighting!"

    And you have the PVE crowd going "We need more time. Better yet, no character wipes!"

    I actually thought the disco exp was a good thing. One of my early suggestions was to simply have everyone log in at max level. Well, we now know that DBG wants to sell experience potions. In my ideal world, some of the ***ideas*** I have thought of and mentioned are:

    1. Zone in at max level.
    2. Turn off raid and heroic instances.
    3. Have contested bosses drop the really good loots.
    4. Everyone starts off with an adequate set of gear than can be upgraded with mob drops.
    5. Have daily or weekly pvp missions/tournaments/contests that award tokens for gear or account wide fluff....whatever.
    6. Make fame mean something. Provide some kind of tactical advantage to each title that can be gained or lost as fame is gained or lost. It doesn't have to be game breaking. It could be a slight increase to run speed, health, defense or, an effect similar to what sigils or totems provide. Also, introduce some kind of decay function or penalty to fame to dis-incentivize title hugging. etc.
    7. Crafting? Irrelevant.
    8. Let people use exp to build out their aa's.

    Really, imo, DBG should just pick one or the other. Either just make a Nagafen TLE, or, eliminate the leveling altogether and follow your 1-2-3 progression. I'm sure people will still spend money on pots if it means ramping up AA's (I'd rather no cash shop incentives, but, well, the reality is DBG).

    Of course, my ideas thoroughly violate the whole "What makes eq2 special is pve with pvp" argument. But well, this server was offered up as a pvp seasonal event.
  19. Duprey Member

    Thats because there isnt anyone to fight and you are slowly pve grinding, I think your idea of a lot and mine are very different. Now i know you will say, well, thats what we want...pve with pvp enabled. You should change the we to I because the numbers and activity show otherwise. Look, im not trying to be negative, but trying to re-live the old days just isnt going to happen, naggy is dead and gone, and although a valiant attempt by dbg, the majority are not interested. Just look at the forums also, 100 msgs here(and half prolly you lol), and like 9000 on tle kaladim. My suggestion is that naggy becomes a free to play server and members get a lvl50 bauble, like the beta buff, but you get handcrafted gear and adept1's. So you still have to harvest,craft,group for upgrades ect, but atleast there will be people playing, i mean free 50 with some gear and spells, it might help get some curious people out to try it. Of course have the market active, keep the money coming. Im sorry but at this rate i doubt itll make it to another season, and I dont want that, i was a hardcore pvper back in the day but on day 2 of the new naggy, it was dead as could be and ive checked back a couple times and its still not any better. There is like DLW 6,CL 3, FP 2,FG4, ect.. on kaladim, which is nice, actually feels alive. Some of you need to let go of the old game and give some new ideas a chance if you ever want this to succeed. Im not a battle royal fan either, so dont say go play fortnite. But those models seem to work pretty good, free game with in game purchases..i dunno, just trying to throw some ideas around.
    Gillymann likes this.
  20. Gillymann Abusive Relationships Aren't Healthy. J S.

    On second thought to my post above......not sure how I feel about aa's. That would give the grinders a huge advantage and make the sale of exp pots even more p2w.

    I like Duprey's idea. Make it a f2p thing and let people buy other stuff (not p2w stuff) from the shop.