please don't make those of us with wings need flying mounts!

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 · Jun 21, 2011

Aelfan wrote:

“Lethe5683 wrote:

“It's been explicitly stated that fae can't fly. Why is that so hard to understand?”

Good Lord, have you read any of the posts or just come in at the end? LORE says they can't fly; NO-ONE could fly in this game NOW THEY CAN. Lore changes with new information, new knowledge or new situations, on Norrath as well as on Earth. Lore is merely an artifice of the devs to tell you why things can't happen, when they CAN happen, the lore can be changed. Fairies fly, live with it.”

There has not been any new information for there to be any reason for fae to fly and fae cannot fly, "live with it".

Aelfan wrote:

“Cusashorn wrote:

“The Fae are the same as the Dodo, the Ostrich, the Emu, the Chicken, the Penguin, and the Turkey. THEY CANT FLY WITH THIER WINGS.”

You think that is relevant? These are flightless birds on Earth with puny wings or domesticated birds which have their wings clipped to stop them engaging in the little bit of flying that domestication would otherwise have allowed them. Fairies of Earth can fly. The Norrathian fairies are based on Earth fairies, with the same large wing-span as one would expect based on that derivation. Norrathian fairies could not fly previously because NO-ONE COULD FLY and so the devs made up this nonsensical lore to explain why our fairies can't fly. NOW EVERYONE CAN FLY. Are you following me so far? No matter how implausible it may be that a gryphon or pegasus can fly (which it is, exceedingly so) they can now fly in Norrath, and even more absurdly, carry our toons while they do it.
All that us fairy-flyers are asking is that along with the other flying appearrances that the devs are undoubredly working on, there is one which allows our winged toons to fly with the appearrance of no gryphon. This would require no new animation, hardly any work at all, in fact, apart from creating an item that can be popped into the mount appearrance slot to say no visible gryphon; and, of course, to correct this obvious error in Norrathian lore.”

Last I checked there were no "earth fairies" and the birds with puny wings applies well to fae. As it is there is no explaination other than "it's magic" for them even being able to hover. Making fae able to fly, and at speeds the same as everyone else would make very little sense and would be quite unfair.

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 · Jun 21, 2011

Aelfan wrote:

“Lethe5683 wrote:

“I don't know what you mean by "each race has their own appearance already" unless you simply mean that each race looks different, but that seems like a stupid thing to say. Most races do not have any unique animations or armor appearance.
Most? Maybe, but as Gungo said, the fae/arasai dance differently and our classes fight with different animations (you're a brawler? Does any fighting animation beat Crane Sweep?). But the real point is, fae/arasai don't need further animation to appear to fly, they already appear to fly, just not very high.
Ok, so you are asking for more uniqueness for a race that already has it's own unique animation while most races are still stuck with nothing but genericness. Making fae fly might not require any new animation but it would still be a unique ability that most races do not have and would not be fair to the rest, sans vampires but at least they have to pay for that.

Once again, they are unique flying appearances.
Like I said, they already appear to be flying. For any other race it would indeed need some work on creating animations for flying unaided, but not for the fairies.
Seeing a fae moving through the air at speeds even half that of the flying mount would look completly ridiculous and not much better than seeing the other races simply walking through the air.

In case you have noticed, flying only came out in DoV which was not "a VERY long time" ago.
I'd say that here Gungo was talking about the appearrance of flying, perhaps by the gryphon, sokokar, cloud and disc transport network, or by gliding mounts like carpets and clouds, and, of course the fae and arasai. It would really not be a problem for the devs to let us fly our carpets etc as appearrances over the gryphons.
Gliding is not the same as flying in any way other than perhaps appearance.”

”

ARCHIVED-Aelfan · Jun 22, 2011

Lethe5683 wrote:

“There has not been any new information for there to be any reason for fae to fly and fae cannot fly, "live with it".
Last I checked there were no "earth fairies" and the birds with puny wings applies well to fae. As it is there is no explaination other than "it's magic" for them even being able to hover. Making fae able to fly, and at speeds the same as everyone else would make very little sense and would be quite unfair.”

There most certainly is new information, a whole new paradigm in fact, with the introduction of flying. I'm suggesting that this "new information" is a hypothetical reason to ditch the absurd lore that fairies can't fly.
Norrathian fairies are derived from Earth fairies, and in Earth "lore" fairies can fly. The same Earth lore which says that gryphons and a pegasus can fly. Have you noticed one of them flying around lately?
I still can't grasp why people feel any of this is unfair. No-one has suggesting fairies should be able to fly from level one except the fairy-haters. All we want is an appearrance of no mount over the gryphon for the races which have wings.

ARCHIVED-Aelfan · Jun 22, 2011

Lethe5683 wrote:

“Aelfan wrote:

“Lethe5683 wrote:

“Ok, so you are asking for more uniqueness for a race that already has it's own unique animation while most races are still stuck with nothing but genericness. Making fae fly might not require any new animation but it would still be a unique ability that most races do not have and would not be fair to the rest, sans vampires but at least they have to pay for that.
They are already unique: they have wings, wings based on Earth fairies which can fly.

Seeing a fae moving through the air at speeds even half that of the flying mount would look completly ridiculous and not much better than seeing the other races simply walking through the air.
Have you looked at the gryphons and the pegasus? I love flying my gryphons around Norrath, after a while adventuring with a non-flying lowbie I l ike to just fly them around. But, actually, they do look absurd, although not as absurd as the cloud and disc transporters. Flying fairies is no more absurd than these, in fact, considerably less absurd than a flying disc!

Gliding is not the same as flying in any way other than perhaps appearance.
Appearance is entirely what this string is about. ”

”

”

ARCHIVED-Cusashorn · Jun 22, 2011

Aelfan wrote:

“Norrathian fairies are derived from Earth fairies, and in Earth "lore" fairies can fly. The same Earth lore which says that gryphons and a pegasus can fly. Have you noticed one of them flying around lately?
I still can't grasp why people feel any of this is unfair. No-one has suggesting fairies should be able to fly from level one except the fairy-haters. All we want is an appearrance of no mount over the gryphon for the races which have wings.”

I didn't know that all the mythology of the hundreds of ancient civilizations on Earth that talks about fairies all came from one incredibly well preserved SINGLE STORY that defines exactly what a fairy can and cannot be.
I'll use the recent discussions about the Freeblood vampires on these boards as an example. Many people complained how SoE was jumping on the "Vampire bandwagon" because of the whole Twilight craze. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but I looked up some research and found that there has never been a single, universally defined concept for a vampire. Vampire mythos existed for centuries before Dracula came around, and it wasn't until Dracula that the concepts of the Sun being able to kill a vampire, being able to turn into a bat, or driving a stake through the heart, and a few of the other things were written into the mythos. Now, you can have a creature who sparkles in the sunlight and CALL them a vampire, and boom, they're a vampire and you can't question it because you're not the author of the series.

The same goes for fairies. Fairy lore first originated in the areas around England, Ireland, and especially Scotland, where fairies were called "Seelie" or "Unseelie" (sound familiar?) Unseelie were always Chaotic Evil creatures. Malicious spirits who would kidnap your children, r*** your daughters, and kill you in the most unspeakable ways, or worse. Seelie were... indifferent at best, but still all around unpleasant.

It wasn't until the Elizabethan era where fairies started to be these cute, WINGED creatures who danced around the forests spreading pixie dust and magic and granting wishes and all that bullcrap that Disney helped bowdlerize and enforce today.
You can read all about it for yourself here. Keep in mind that TVtropes is a Wiki site that far more accurate in it's subject matter than wikipedia ever will be.

The fact that the Fae even have wings is just because the developers decided to create a GOOD aligned race and based them off of modern Victorian concepts. If they wanted to be as accurate as possible and followed the original Earth fairy mythos when they created the Arasai, then they wouldn't have wings. You're lucky they have that much to them.

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 · Jun 22, 2011

Aelfan wrote:

“Lethe5683 wrote:

“Ok, so you are asking for more uniqueness for a race that already has it's own unique animation while most races are still stuck with nothing but genericness. Making fae fly might not require any new animation but it would still be a unique ability that most races do not have and would not be fair to the rest, sans vampires but at least they have to pay for that.
They are already unique: they have wings, wings based on Earth fairies which can fly.
If you want to get technical about it then the so called "earth fairies" are also very small and weak so fae should not be able to wear metal armor or use most weapons either.

Seeing a fae moving through the air at speeds even half that of the flying mount would look completly ridiculous and not much better than seeing the other races simply walking through the air.
Have you looked at the gryphons and the pegasus? I love flying my gryphons around Norrath, after a while adventuring with a non-flying lowbie I l ike to just fly them around. But, actually, they do look absurd, although not as absurd as the cloud and disc transporters. Flying fairies is no more absurd than these, in fact, considerably less absurd than a flying disc!
Not really, there is no logic in either flying other than "it's magic". Magic disk, magic wings... no difference.

Gliding is not the same as flying in any way other than perhaps appearance.
Appearance is entirely what this string is about.
No it's not, allowing fae to fly without mounts affect gameplay just as much as it affects appearance.”

”

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 · Jun 22, 2011

Aelfan wrote:

“Lethe5683 wrote:

“There has not been any new information for there to be any reason for fae to fly and fae cannot fly, "live with it".
Last I checked there were no "earth fairies" and the birds with puny wings applies well to fae. As it is there is no explaination other than "it's magic" for them even being able to hover. Making fae able to fly, and at speeds the same as everyone else would make very little sense and would be quite unfair.”

There most certainly is new information, a whole new paradigm in fact, with the introduction of flying. I'm suggesting that this "new information" is a hypothetical reason to ditch the absurd lore that fairies can't fly.
And what makes you think the lore stating that they can't fly is purly due to flying not being possible at launch? There's a good chance that had flying always been possible fae would still not be able to fly.
Norrathian fairies are derived from Earth fairies, and in Earth "lore" fairies can fly. The same Earth lore which says that gryphons and a pegasus can fly. Have you noticed one of them flying around lately?
No I haven't. Have you ever seen any "earth fairies" flying around wearing heavy plate armor and a two handed sword?
I still can't grasp why people feel any of this is unfair. No-one has suggesting fairies should be able to fly from level one except the fairy-haters. All we want is an appearrance of no mount over the gryphon for the races which have wings.
It would be obvious if you were not so biased towards fae. Giving a single race (technically two races but close enough) a unique ability without any plans to give all other races some unique ability as well is simply not fair by any stretch of the word.”

ARCHIVED-Trinral · Jun 22, 2011

Lethe5683 wrote:

“Aelfan wrote:

“Lethe5683 wrote:

“There has not been any new information for there to be any reason for fae to fly and fae cannot fly, "live with it".
Last I checked there were no "earth fairies" and the birds with puny wings applies well to fae. As it is there is no explaination other than "it's magic" for them even being able to hover. Making fae able to fly, and at speeds the same as everyone else would make very little sense and would be quite unfair.”

There most certainly is new information, a whole new paradigm in fact, with the introduction of flying. I'm suggesting that this "new information" is a hypothetical reason to ditch the absurd lore that fairies can't fly.
And what makes you think the lore stating that they can't fly is purly due to flying not being possible at launch? There's a good chance that had flying always been possible fae would still not be able to fly.
Norrathian fairies are derived from Earth fairies, and in Earth "lore" fairies can fly. The same Earth lore which says that gryphons and a pegasus can fly. Have you noticed one of them flying around lately?
No I haven't. Have you ever seen any "earth fairies" flying around wearing heavy plate armor and a two handed sword?
I still can't grasp why people feel any of this is unfair. No-one has suggesting fairies should be able to fly from level one except the fairy-haters. All we want is an appearrance of no mount over the gryphon for the races which have wings.
It would be obvious if you were not so biased towards fae. Giving a single race (technically two races but close enough) a unique ability without any plans to give all other races some unique ability as well is simply not fair by any stretch of the word.”

”

I agree with Lethe. Players of Fae and Arasai need to QQ less. Earth fairies? lol lol lol lol lol lol... lol!! Tinkerbell is real, she really is! She is what my Fae is modelled after! I think I will replace the term "grasping for straws" with "grasping for earth fairies".

If the Fae were permanently the size of a human fingertip, they might have a case. But they arent. Poor earth fairies just got crushed!

ARCHIVED-InsaneChaosMarine · Jun 23, 2011

Let them Fly, who cares, vampires can fly, why can't faeries?
Is it because faeries forgot to pay the 20 bucks?

Who cares if faeries can fly at level 1, let them.

Who cares if they can fly at level 85 before everyone else, let them.

Who cares? They have wings they should fly, its kind of the thing.

ARCHIVED-Katz · Jun 23, 2011

I see no reason why we can't let them "appearance" fly as long as they have a flying mount. It would amount to them using themselves in the appearance slot.

ARCHIVED-Gungo · Jun 23, 2011

Katz wrote:

“I see no reason why we can't let them "appearance" fly as long as they have a flying mount. It would amount to them using themselves in the appearance slot.”

I think that is what most people are asking for and there is 1-2 people crying about this race being allowed a special appearance that requires no new art assets.

ARCHIVED-Rainy · Jun 23, 2011

The arguement seems to go like this:
Pro: I'm a Fae/Arasai! I have wings! I should be allowed to fly without having to ride a griffon/carpet/disk! give me a race specific quest, that gives me the only no appearance flying mount or just make it so I can fly once I do it!
Con: You are a Fae, yes. You have wings. but those wings, as dictated by the Lore, aren't strong enough for flight! it makes no sense to let you fly without riding anything! also, it's not fair to others that only your race should get a no appearance mount/Be able to fly without one!
Pro: Screw the lore! I have wings, therefore I can fly! Tinkerbell flies, and we're modeled after her! Vampires get to fly without a griffon!
Con: Tinkerbell is small enough that a lantern a 10x12 prison cell. Fae are much bigger then that! accept that they can't fly, only glide! and vampires only get to fly with in an illusion as a cloud of bats! adn they had to PAY for that!
and it goes back and forth mostly like that.
hell I even proposed a compromise. attach a quest that allows Fae/Arasai to fly in thier Silvani/Unseeli 'bug' form. They want to fly like tinkerbell, then they can be the same size as tinkerbell...and it makes thier illusion the same as Cloud of Bats, an illusion that works like a mount. so the mechanics are well in place already to do it. they don't have to try and either add new animations to adjust the present ones to take into account 'flight capability'.
But they don't want that, and refuse to accept the idea that the Devs have stuck by thier lore on this one that that a Fae can't fly under thier own power, thier butterfly wings aren't strong enough.
And of course bringing up the idea that not everything with wings can fly, for example turkeys, chickens, penquins, adn the exinct Dodo bird, they ignore that, usually with the idea that thier based on tinkerbell fairies, not birds.
nevermind that according to history, Gnomes are fairies (Faefolk). so are Leprecauns. neither of them fly. I think even trolls and dwarves in some legends are considered more the 'Unseeli' type of Faefolk.
or how about the famous shakespear play, A midsummer nights dream? Puck/Titania/Obereon are all fairies, and none of them can fly. hell they don't even HAVE wings to fly with. so just saying 'Fae are based on Fairies thus they can fly' is a flawwed arguement in and of itself.

ARCHIVED-Morghus · Jun 23, 2011

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

“The arguement seems to go like this:
Pro: I'm a Fae/Arasai! I have wings! I should be allowed to fly without having to ride a griffon/carpet/disk! give me a race specific quest, that gives me the only no appearance flying mount or just make it so I can fly once I do it!
Con: You are a Fae, yes. You have wings. but those wings, as dictated by the Lore, aren't strong enough for flight! it makes no sense to let you fly without riding anything! also, it's not fair to others that only your race should get a no appearance mount/Be able to fly without one!
Pro: Screw the lore! I have wings, therefore I can fly! Tinkerbell flies, and we're modeled after her! Vampires get to fly without a griffon!
Con: Tinkerbell is small enough that a lantern a 10x12 prison cell. Fae are much bigger then that! accept that they can't fly, only glide! and vampires only get to fly with in an illusion as a cloud of bats! adn they had to PAY for that!
and it goes back and forth mostly like that.
hell I even proposed a compromise. attach a quest that allows Fae/Arasai to fly in thier Silvani/Unseeli 'bug' form. They want to fly like tinkerbell, then they can be the same size as tinkerbell...and it makes thier illusion the same as Cloud of Bats, an illusion that works like a mount. so the mechanics are well in place already to do it. they don't have to try and either add new animations to adjust the present ones to take into account 'flight capability'.
But they don't want that, and refuse to accept the idea that the Devs have stuck by thier lore on this one that that a Fae can't fly under thier own power, thier butterfly wings aren't strong enough.
And of course bringing up the idea that not everything with wings can fly, for example turkeys, chickens, penquins, adn the exinct Dodo bird, they ignore that, usually with the idea that thier based on tinkerbell fairies, not birds.
nevermind that according to history, Gnomes are fairies (Faefolk). so are Leprecauns. neither of them fly. I think even trolls and dwarves in some legends are considered more the 'Unseeli' type of Faefolk.
or how about the famous shakespear play, A midsummer nights dream? Puck/Titania/Obereon are all fairies, and none of them can fly. hell they don't even HAVE wings to fly with. so just saying 'Fae are based on Fairies thus they can fly' is a flawwed arguement in and of itself.”

Pretty much. They want their cake, and they want to eat it too.

ARCHIVED-Iskandar · Jun 23, 2011

Lethe5683 wrote:

“Aelfan wrote:

“Lethe5683 wrote:

“There has not been any new information for there to be any reason for fae to fly and fae cannot fly, "live with it".
Last I checked there were no "earth fairies" and the birds with puny wings applies well to fae. As it is there is no explaination other than "it's magic" for them even being able to hover. Making fae able to fly, and at speeds the same as everyone else would make very little sense and would be quite unfair.”

There most certainly is new information, a whole new paradigm in fact, with the introduction of flying. I'm suggesting that this "new information" is a hypothetical reason to ditch the absurd lore that fairies can't fly.
And what makes you think the lore stating that they can't fly is purly due to flying not being possible at launch? There's a good chance that had flying always been possible fae would still not be able to fly.”

”

Technically speaking, flight WAS possible at launch -- there were griffon towers in Antonica and the Commonlands. And later on we built new griffon towers in other zones as part of a World Event. When Echoes of Faydwer was released, adding the Fae as a new race, it even had griffon towers in Butcherblock.
Those griffons gave any and all players the power of flight -- they just weren't OUR mounts, they belonged to someone else and flew a pre-planned flight path. The only thing that has changed since release is that we can now have our own mount and control where it goes.
Speaking as someone with five level 90 Fae/Arasai (plus even more at lower levels), I have no problem whatsoever with needing to ride a mount to fly. Because Fae don't fly, they just glide.
And so does a High Elf, for that matter -- but ya don't see High Elves asking for innate flight capabilities.
And btw, Vampires don't fly -- their quest unlocks flight for the Cloud of Bats mount they purchased on the Marketplace, just as our adventure and tradeskill quests unlock flight for the Gryphon mounts we receive ingame. To fly, a Vampire must be riding the Cloud of Bats mount -- just as our toons must be riding a Gryphon mount.

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 · Jun 23, 2011

Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:

“Let them Fly, who cares, vampires can fly, why can't faeries?
Is it because faeries forgot to pay the 20 bucks?

The lack of cost is part of the issue but vampires flying as bats makes more sense than fae flying for no apparent reason.

Who cares if faeries can fly at level 1, let them.
I care and so do a lot of other people.

Who cares if they can fly at level 85 before everyone else, let them.
See above ^^^

Who cares? They have wings they should fly, its kind of the thing.
See above ^^^”

Quiet you.

ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder · Jun 23, 2011

Lol at making sense.

I just flew to Moors of Ykesha on a steam powered gnomish airship made of wood and iron with sails and no wings. Totally makes sense.

I just teleported from one side of Norrath to the other in order to finish some dumb tradeskilling quest that involved supposedly shooting troll snot at a target dummy, at no point were any trolls involved, not sure where the snot came from.

I could go on and on but you people will never get it. You are too blinded by the idea that someone might get the ability to have an invisible appearance mount and you cant.

That's what it's all about. So fine. Let anyone have the invisible appearance mount. Or no one, it doesn't matter.

I'm tired of reading people's unbelievably short-sighted, blinders-firmly-in-place arguments as they desperately attempt to grasp at 'logical reasons' a fantasy pixie race can't fly. It's sad.

Like Crabbok said somewhere else, if there's magic involved any argument can be invalidated.

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 · Jun 23, 2011

Kiki@Guk wrote:

“Like Crabbok said somewhere else, if there's magic involved any argument can be invalidated.”

Any realism arguement you mean. Magic does nothing to explain why it is obviously not fair to give one certain races an advantage over others.

ARCHIVED-Trinral · Jun 23, 2011

Lethe5683 wrote:

“Kiki@Guk wrote:

“Like Crabbok said somewhere else, if there's magic involved any argument can be invalidated.”

Any realism arguement you mean. Magic does nothing to explain why it is obviously not fair to give one certain races an advantage over others.”

Ease up there, Lethe.

Kiki clearly has an unbelievably short sighted, blinders-firmly-in-place, pro-Fae advantage mindset. "Logic" is only permitted if it is for their benefit, which means they do not want logic to be used in this thread. Responses like yours might result in an agry fairy rage-dust being scattered all over the forums. If that happened, we would all be flying, and I am scared of heights...

But Kiki did get one thing right : Any argument supporting fairies being able to fly, can be invalidated. While Kiki was questing with a Troll Snot sling, some of the magical snot flung back and stuck to their wings. This magical troll snot is like enchanted glue, and is impossible to remove, preventing fairy flight from happening! The tragedy of magic!

ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder · Jun 24, 2011

Oh right, like the Traverse Shadow and Interdimensional Portal abilities aren't an advantage over other races?

Safe fall? Disarming Traps? Tracking?

How does a purely visual "advantage" stack up against these very real and game affecting abilities?

And how is an invisible mount appearance an "advantage" anyway? Explain that please. Logically.

ARCHIVED-Trinral · Jun 24, 2011

Kiki@Guk wrote:

“Oh right, like the Traverse Shadow and Interdimensional Portal abilities aren't an advantage over other races?

Safe fall? Disarming Traps? Tracking?

How does a purely visual "advantage" stack up against these very real and game affecting abilities?

And how is an invisible mount appearance an advantage anyway? Explain that please. Logically.”

Oh yeah, because Fae dont get anything like Featherfall, Wind Walker, and Glide... These abilities must have absolutely no effect in the game?!?!

You are grasping for "Earth Fairies" again?

Log in or Sign up

please don't make those of us with wings need flying mounts!

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Aelfan Guest

ARCHIVED-Aelfan Guest

ARCHIVED-Cusashorn Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

ARCHIVED-InsaneChaosMarine Guest

ARCHIVED-Katz Guest

ARCHIVED-Gungo Guest

ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

ARCHIVED-Morghus Guest

ARCHIVED-Iskandar Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder Guest

ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

Log in or Sign up

please don't make those of us with wings need flying mounts!

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Aelfan Guest

ARCHIVED-Aelfan Guest

ARCHIVED-Cusashorn Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

ARCHIVED-InsaneChaosMarine Guest

ARCHIVED-Katz Guest

ARCHIVED-Gungo Guest

ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

ARCHIVED-Morghus Guest

ARCHIVED-Iskandar Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder Guest

ARCHIVED-Lethe5683 Guest

ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder Guest

ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

Useful Searches