[p]I ran some logs on test with my Swashbuckler first using 1 hand qeynos kilij with me spec'd as wisdom (one handed double attack line) and then did duel wield with the kilij and qeynos cutlass. Both weapons have exact same damage and delay ratings and the same proc. Both 31-92 damage with a 1.6 delay and 76.8 damage rating. I straight autoattacked the mob, no combat arts, no haste proc. and had a 25 haste rating which is 28% increase in attack speed. I killed the same amount of mobs and the same make up mobs each time. (I was able to get both weapons since you can buy them from an NPC in Qeynos Harbor)[/p][p] With 1 handed:[/p][p]Total DPS: 502, pierce 91% damage, Power of Marr 9% (Proc Rate 3.6%)[/p][p]Melee: 458dps, 751 swings, 751 hits, 143 crits, avg delay 0.66[/p][p] [/p][p]Duel Wield:[/p][p]Total DPS: 423, pierce 49%, Slash 45%, Power of Marr 6% (Proc Rate 2.5%)[/p][p]Melee: 397 dps, 731 swings, 731 hits, 158 crits, avg delay 0.73[/p][p] [/p][p] A couple of notes on this, with Freehand Reversal I will riposte 5% of all frontal attacks, which I was swung at 240 times, which should be roughly around 12 extra attacks with 1 hand. But that still only changes the delay to 0.67. (Based on 730 attacks in 494 seconds instead of the 751 in that time) With duel wield I figured the extra pierce damage percentage was due to ripostes since I had the Kijil (piercing) in main hand.[/p][p]The proc rate is what I find strange, since it will not proc on the double attack, you'd think that the duel wield would at least equal the proc rate as 1 handed, but apparently not. Obviously this wasn't a huge sample but should give a fairly decent idea of what happens.[/p][p] Seems to be at least in this limited test that 1 hand is still the way to go. [/p][p](I had posted this on the Duel Wield changes under testing feedback, but seemed to get lost in a discussion on brawler DPS)[/p][p] [/p][p]Callus[/p][p]70 Swashbuckler Guk[/p]
Proc rates are screwed up with the new changes. Brawlers, in particular, have been complaining about it in the In Testing forum. Higher delay when you dual wield, but the proc percentage stays the same. So the Kijil is proccing on the same number of original swings (not counting double attacks) in both setups, but when dual wielding, you're swinging it less often. I think, unless this is changed, more testing, particularly in a raiding environment, is going to see dual wield falling very short, which will only serve to further agrivate those classes who don't have a double-attack AA line.
I also hear attack is messed up and you hit more often on test. =( So dps numbers are probably skewed at this point since the hit % will be messed up... tho... it should be messed up for both, so they shouldn't be too far off... still... the extra STR from the off-hand weapon will bump ATK up slightly.
Antas@Oasis wrote: One of the devs posted the following under the in testing feedback forum: "Once the gu38 test update goes out the proc calculation will change slightly. Since procs are based off you unhasted base delay they will start to use delay * 1.33 to match their true base delay when dual wielding. If you don't dual wield or use a ranged weapon then they will still use the base delay of the weapon for proc calculations." I am sure they will address the major concerns of DW once GU38 hits the test servers, until then I would hold off on any actual DPS comparing with DW and 1h specs.
Odeius@Guk wrote: See there, this is what happens when I don't actually bother to keep up on a thread. Instead of degrading into nonsense as most do, there's actually a useful post from SoE. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.
That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse. Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye. You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.
I would assume he went str/agi for the dual wield parsing because common sense says to instead of staying wis line for that parsing, although he didn't state it. However the gap is a little too large to be accurate and would suggest he not not respec. I highly doubt there is a 15.8% difference in DPS between the two specs based on other posts on this forum as well as my own parsing. However, the proc rate on this parse is screwy so it is entirely possible that did create the gap since that proc rate would effect all procs (poisons, bravado, offensive stance...). EDIT: He mentioned he did not use haste proc or combat arts, but he made no mention of offensive stance which has a small proc, but it can add up.
Cocytus wrote: To make the brigand in the next group feel better about himself? Hehe sorry, I couldn't resist.
Cocytus wrote: Not to mention that he wants you to fight face to face with 1 hander, but have someone taunting so you can fight from behind Dual Wielding. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.
Cocytus wrote: I think what he was saying is that specing Wis and testing dw while spec'd wis is not fair. To test 1h you have to spec wis/(agi/str), to really test dw you need to spec str/agi. Edit: they really need a way for players on test to change specs as often as necessary to properly test different lineups.
Test server had unlimited respecs last I checked, actually. I specced str/agi for my dual wield tests and attacked the perma-stunned mob...1h was superior. edit - Dual wielding was better for burst DPS, but 1h left it in the dust for sustained dps.
Cocytus wrote: Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.
I did some more testing today. I ran 5 fights with each style, against lvl 66 baselisks in the Bonemore, No combat-arts. Strictly auto-attack. Fencing: Vilucidae's Sword of shielding. Average dps: 649. Dual-wield: Dirk of Negativity and Talonsreach. Average dps: 479. And just for fun, I tried out str/sta, "tank" spec. I parsed a whopping 288.
Geakor wrote: And what is the purpose of that? I really don't see what it matters how dual-wield parses vs 1-hand without being widsom spec'd. Not for swashbucklers, or any other scout. The vast majority of us probably do not care at all how 1-handed would parse, without being wisdom spec'd. I certainly don't.
Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote: Obviously we you don't or you just don't know what 'raw' data is about. That means nothing extra just you and the weapon, that will give you bare minimum DPS with 1hander vs. duel wield. I am lvl 60 now and with Avest Ye on 8 it will proc 16% of the time and proc for 600 something. I go down STR/AGI line and with me vs. a swash (I was 60 and he was 59) we were both equally equiped Master crafted and he had the Bixie sword from TT and I had master crafted weapons on both Adept 3 out I was parsing 100 - 300 higher than him, even more at times. That is just how I roll and I like to be behind the mob more often than not, I hit harder and more often from back there. But as I stated before - with the changes it is the question how will the weapon changes from duel wield to all weapons being 1handed and have more damage but higher dely change the dps of it, NOT how well will your wis line still work with the changes. Scouts are not the only classes in the game mind you, the changes to weapons will affect every class that wields a weapon - which happens to be all of them not just the greedy swashbucklers.
I can understand where this is confusing. Basically did the OP spec Str/Agi when he tested the dual wielding or did he stay Wis specced? He does not say. If not then it isn't fair to say that the one handed Wis spec is better if you just equiped dual wield weapons but stayed Wis specced. That would be like speccing Str/Agi and testing 1 handed weapons vs dual wielding and saying dual wielding is better. If the OP did spec Str/Agi when he tested out dual wielding then it becomes more clear.
Geakor wrote: Why are you even posting in the swashbuckler forum? Let us test the changes and see how they apply to swashbucklers, and you go do your thing. 'Raw' data, as you put it, is useless. Why? Because that isn't how you're going to fight. You aren't (unless you're an idiot) going to go out and wield one weapon as a swashbuckler without being wisdom spec'd. Therefore, it . does . not . matter . how one-handed parses unless you're wisdom spec'd. Yes, there are other classes that wield weapons, but thank you for your wisdom there. However, last time I looked, Atelos was a swashbuckler. Leithe was a swashbuckler. How the game affects guardians and assassin and mages is really a bit less relevant to us than how it affects swashbucklers. We are, after all, in the Swashbuckler forum. /shakes head
Geakor wrote: Well, no, because that information is useless in practical terms. Who cares which parses better under those conditions? More to the point, it's =obvious= which one parses better under those conditions. You can just do the math: 100 damage every 3 seconds versus 200 damage every 4 seconds, assuming hit % doesn't change due to dual-wielding. So, in order to get a useful comparison, what you need to do is parse maxed out 1H DPS versus maxed out DW DPS. The first is only achieved by speccing the WIS AA line along with either STR or AGI. The second is probably achieved by speccing STR and AGI. So, for the sake of completeness, it would be nice to see 1H WIS/STR, 1H WIS/AGI, and DW STR/AGI.... At least Swashies don't need to deal with the complication of a buckler being tossed into the mix like Warriors do :^P
