I am against changing weapons to higher delays. This is a paradigm that doesnt work for all people. Adornments proc on a % base. 100 fast hits with a short delay proc 4 heals at 4%. While 30 slow hits only proc 1.2 heals. The idea to have a huge delay to have time to squeeze combat arts into this timeframe is not true anymore if you have very low delays. Actually its the opposite an you squeeze the auto-attack into the tiny timeframes between the combat arts. Monks and melee warden do have a lot of CA's for example. And i can reach delays <1 with a haste equiped melee warden. Bad english, but i hope you get the point. Best would be to have all wepaons with two different delays and damage spread. So everyone could choose what he wants. Mind you that crafting is one of the main resources for the "customizers". There is enough quested and raid looted stuff for the mainstream players. I do like the faction armors. Manslayer and tranquil are great. On a side note the manslayer chest is almost a reason to invite a warden back to raid A leather chest with hate transfer. Did the raid devs know about this Domino ? If not, dont tell them . Unfortunately the crafted weapons are not on par with those armors. They need a slight buff to be between the fabled T7/legendary T8 and the epic weapon.
I have a troub, brig and weaponsmith - so Im coming at this argument from that angle. If anyone thinks that WS dont make viable scout weapons they are smoking some really good stuff. The 3 in particular that are amazing are Tomohawk, Kukri and Falchion. All 3 of these have insane stats for anyone leveling a scout through t8 (65 int on your bard would be a noticable dps increase). Even assuming a vanilla str of 600 these will be criting ~ 601 - 800. Thats around 66% of anaphraxias. In terms of suggestions for further recipes id suggest something like: LORE equipable lvl 78 - 100 health - 100 power - 20 str 20 int 4.0 delay for the moment calculating attack values escapes me, but iirc the current MC hit for 100 - 600 @ 650 str, id like to see the new ones do 200 - 700 @ 650 str (ie still not as good as anaphraxias, but closer) effect: imbued = +10 attack speed (scouts / temp / inquis) or + 10dps (scouts / temp / inquis) or + 2% hostile spell base damage increase (scout / crusader) or + 5% casting time reduction (scout / crusader) or +2% ranged double attack and +2% ranged crit chance or +5% base hate gain on all taunts (plate only) (maybe 2% would be more balanced - not sure) or +2 double attack and +5% avoidance (brawler only) or overloaded heal 150 (healer only) the imbue should result in different item names so that you could use 2 of the effects (but not one twice), once you hit 80 you would probably swap to anaphraxias and +2% base damae (pred / rogue) or 5% cast time reduction (bard). If you were a jammy bugger you would bin the MC for cardiocutter ofc. And yes - the stats are crap because the imbue is significant.
Tokamak wrote: While I don't specifically disagree with this, making it so that a ranger can put 2% ranged crit or 2% ranged DA on their melee weapons would make them very close to the best weapons in the game for rangers, if not the best. This is not acceptable for mastercrafted. I personally think, for this reason in particular, mastercrafted weapons should stick to only having damage and heal type procs for effects, leaving the other effects for dropped items (or items crafted from dropped materials). This way, should someone want to put in a weapon that is better than anything else in the game for one specific class, they can add it in to the game with an appropriate risk.
Noaani wrote: Nice writeup. You just forgot all the Melee Priest (Warden / Mystic / Inquisitor), which like to wear STR/WIS weapons of their type (sword / spear / hammer) to solo. sliderhouserules wrote: While I also think this is a complete list of roles, I would not reduce each role to two stats. If I tank I also look for as much DPS as possible to hold agro, so STR ist also important. A Scout might also like some more STA to surive better when he draws agro. ... So You should add additional Weapons with 3, 4 or 5 stats like: STR / AGI / STA STR / STA / WIS STR / STA / INT STA / WIS / INT STR / AGI / INT AGI / STA / WIS STR / AGI / STA / INT STR / AGI / STA / WIS STR / AGI / STA / WIS / INT Main Stat normally is STR (DPS builts), STA (Tank builds), WIS (Priest) or INT (Mages). I think no Scout will go with AGI as his main Stat on his waepons and even less likely someone else. But of each of the 4 above mentioned stats should be a possible main stat of the 2 or 3 stat combos. For the 4 or 5 stat combos I would prefer just one balanced set with each stat set to the same value. This would lead to the following 26 Stat combinations: STA / AGI STR / STA STR / STASTR / AGI STR / INT INT / STA INT / STA STR / WIS STR / WIS WIS / INT WIS / INT STR / AGI / STA STR / AGI / STA STR / STA / WIS STR / STA / WIS STR / STA / INT STR / STA / INT STA / WIS / INT STA / WIS / INT STR / AGI / INT STR / AGI / INT AGI / STA / WIS AGI / STA / WIS STR / AGI / STA / INT STR / AGI / STA / WIS STR / AGI / STA / WIS / INT All of these should be on one-handed weapons. As two-handed weapons are more focused by themselves I would vote for only the "double stat" combinations for them. This would lead to 31 weapons just to have each combination of Stats and wield type. If you now add some popular combinations to different damage types and / or delays you can easily double the number of weapons to around 60, which should create enough options for everybody to find the combination fitting for him.
Tokamak wrote: Agreed, but, the simple fact that all three of those weapons are slashers left the majority of us with more +pierce than +slash out in the cold. That is a prime example of the haphazard itemization, three really nice 4 sec slashers for scouts and not a single pierce at 4 save the stam/int mage dagger. Aerilik should have known better, he plays a scout, and I don't care if he doesn't use MC, he should have itemized properly at least for a class he plays. Half the problem we have is itemization devs who seem to buy into the song and dance of MC is JUNK why bother with it. Perhaps they need to be forced to use it on pvp test long enough to see the holes we all do. (edit, I blamed Aeralik out of habit, he actually doesnt do Itemization and the above comment is incorrect") And I agree with Noaani that more WS and crafters in general need to bone up on classes. It is common knowledge that DPS scouts go heavy on Str and Int, because of poison and proc damage. People unaware of the very basics of playing a class should bow out of suggestions for itemization. I have an 80SK and an 80 Assassin, and limit my input to those classes. 59 brig, 52 Zerk, 47 Dirge, 44 Templar... I honestly cannot input on those classes at t8, although I have a pretty good grasp of thier needs.
Calain@Valor wrote: I thought about adding 6 weapons in with this stat profile, but didn't, due simply to the fact that a solo melee priest is also, by defination, tanking the mobs they are fighting, thus need a decient amount of sta. I thought about what I would pick on my 4 melee healers, and every one of them (level from 22, 35, 55 and 80) would have taken a weapon with str/sta/wis over a weapon with just str/wis if every other aspect of the weapon was the same.
Lasai wrote: Aeralik does not do itemisation, he does combat arts, spells and achievements. Although its fun to blame him for every mistake made in this game, lets try to keep it to only blaming him for the ones he make himself. There are enough of them to go round.
Noaani wrote: Ah boo, I retract it then, got confused when Domino referred to the other A guy, I mix those two up. Fyreflite? Ugh. Healer plate.
The shorter delay weapons will never be used so long as the user has a long delay weapon as an option. The damage increase between a 1.6 delay weapon and a 4.0 delay weapon with the same damage rating is significant. Thus the only thing that the faster weapons do is give the crafters more experience and confuse less knowledgeable players. It is my opinion that the delay differences should go. Pick a good delay for one handers and a good delay for 2 handers and stick with them across the board each tier. The only other option would be to give delay some weight in item creation, such that if given two weapons identical in every way except delay, the one with the longer delay would be a higher level, more valuable item. But that is a job for the mechanics team and, if they plan to do a good job with it, a rather significant one.
Archonix and Fyreflyte do the bulk of the itemization between them, and previously, crafted stuff sort of followed its own little progression rules (I assume originally Beghn's) on its own without much input from either. In general Fyreflyte has focused on the treasured/legendary type items and Archonix on the raid loot, though they overlap a bit and work together in some areas. Aeralik is focused on spell/CA and general class balance and doesn't generally enter into itemization discussions except where class balance is concerned, for example, he recently improved the D'Zok Bow of Flame to be better for rangers, and things like poisons would be reviewed by him. Fyreflyte and I have only been in our roles about a year now, so both of us were still on quite a steep learning curve with Kunark! The four of us together make up the mechanics group within the design team. Moving forward, we're going to be working together much more closely to ensure all the levels of gear (treasured, MC, legendary, fabled) fit together more smoothly than they have in the past, and to ensure that mastercrafted doesn't just wander along doing its own thing as previously, but actually fits in better with the rest. Unfortunately in the past this didn't always happen for a number of reasons, which hopefully we can avoid as much as possible in the future. (Factors like the entire city catching fire during the weeks we should have been comparing itemization may not be entirely avoidable, but let's hope!) Insofar as weaponsmith itemization is less than ideal in T8, feel free to lay the blame at my door; ultimately, I created the final items, after all, and decided when to stop continuing to push for more. I'm going to take some of the stat combination suggestions listed in the previous posts and start putting together a new spreadsheet which I will post when complete. Thank you to everyone who has commented so far. I have probably failed to address a number of questions in the previous pages for which I apologize, but just wanted to post an update and small explanation of who's who while I consume my morning caffeine.
Should bows be within the list for Woodworkers or is that seperate? Personally I have no gripes, but what I would like to see is Woodworkers gaining control/knowledge on how to apply different proc types to our weapons. Right now we can make several different types of wands with all possible dmg types on them. It would be nice to see that reduced/hidden and replaced by a component. Basically we would buy a scintilating material from the broker combine it with root, metal, mineral, whatever and get a disease, poison, mental, magic, etc... powder we can apply to our weapons. Also it would be nice to see an option for us to make the dmg wands spell based, melee based or activatable giving woodworkers a little more in the option department.
Since bows are made by woodworkers and I'm specifically looking at weaponsmiths right now, I did not include them in the list as there are no weaponsmith equivalents that overlap or compete with them directly. I don't know yet whether I'll end up including any bow changes with these changes or not.
Afterdark wrote: Maybe instead of comparing the crafted weapons against each other we would compare them to what drops in that tier or can be quested in that tier. Not saying this is a total waste of time, but just my thoughts. Afterdark wrote: I miss those times where you could go out and get the parts and if you put in the time make a weapon that was very nice. Now its more like a rusty sword compared to the drops. Oh, now i remember why I left the first time. Also, you left out quested, there are some weapons in quests that are rather nice - for being a quested item and all. Afterdark wrote: I think the idea is to help correct that. Anyways, Just my thoughts... edit : ugh nvm: i'm such a slow typer...
Amana wrote: Bow's are ranged items. True they are weapons, however if you list Bow's, you need to list Bandoliers and Satchels from Tailors as well, since they are a ranged item as well. Which means the list just gets more cluttered and could possilby loose focus.
So, I was looking over Domino's spreadsheet, and at first was a bit confusing to look at. Maybe cause I'm not on my widescreen at home, but...I took and recopied the info into a new spreadsheet based off an idea I had... I reclassified the weapons into categories based off the size of the weapon. I even put the woodworker weapons into the same categories, since they are weapons too Anyways... I put them in categories of Fist, Small, Medium and Large. My main reason for doing it this way is due to the dual wield changes that were made a while ago. I feel that if the reclassification of weapons with this size category, will help to determine what the base damage, damage rating and delay should be. From there each category can be branched out to Melee Weapons and Caster Weapons with delay, damage, and rating being adjusted up or down depending on the sub-category it falls into. However, that means there would need to be a base weapon for each category an anchor. I got this idea after looking at the Dirk, which is a 1 handed piercing weapon. It's stats go across the board and is the only weapon out there that does this (the War Axe has 4 stats, but is the only one that comes close). So I was thinking; what if this could be done for a common weapon in each category? Let me give an example of what I mean: Small ~ 1h ~ Slash Crescent Axe 1H Weapon 1HS - Axe Primary/Secondary 1.2 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 90 50 Short Sword 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 2.5 67.6 35 35 45 0 0 70 70 Falchion 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 65 70 Kukri 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 35 45 35 0 0 65 70 Tomahawk 1H Weapon 1HS - Axe Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 65 0 0 0 35 70 70 With the above example, it show's there are 5 1handed small sized slashing weapons out there. However nothing really to give them a base on how to measure the weapons usefulness, unless it's point blank given. So we change the Short Sword which is a very common weapon and many class's can use it to be the base small slashing weapon anchor. Small ~ 1h ~ SlashShort Sword 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 3.0 72.1 25 25 25 20 20 70 70 The way I figured the stats, was I took the existing information for the short sword and added it up. The short sword had a total of 115 to stats, with 140 to health/power. With that, I spread the stats out across all 5 to give the base. I also raised the damage rating to be in-line with common legendary from tier 7. With the increase in damage rating I increased the delay to 3 as the base. This will now be the anchor to all weapons that are classified as a small slashing type. (If any are ever added down the road). I then seperated the 4 remaining weapons in this category into 2 sub-categories. One titled Melee, one titled Caster. Item Name Item Type Item Skill Equip Slot Delay Dmg STR AGI STA WIS INT Health Power Small ~ 1h ~ Slash (Melee) Crescent Axe 1H Weapon 1HS - Axe Primary/Secondary 3.5 70.9 55 30 30 0 0 90 50 Kukri 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 3.5 70.9 30 55 30 0 0 90 50 Small ~ 1h ~ Slash (Caster)Falchion 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 2.5 74.5 30 30 0 55 0 50 90 Tomahawk 1H Weapon 1HS - Axe Primary/Secondary 2.5 74.5 30 0 0 30 55 50 90 I took the two weapons that looked to be geared more towards Melee and adjusted the delay up, while lowering the damage rating, and then spreading the 115 points into STR, AGI, STA. With the higher delay it'll allow for more crit damage, even though the damage rating is lower. The stats plainly show these two weapons are more towards Melee types rather than Caster types. The power was also adjusted to give more towards health rather than power. For the Caster slash weapons, I thought more along the lines of the Melee Druids and Bards. Lowering the delay but giving it a higher damage rating, should off-set the lower delay. And the stats were geared to be more inline with that of a spell caster. By creating an anchor weapon for each type, I feel it will help generate a better focus on which way to gear the weapons without taking anything away. Also adjusting the damage rating and damage up or down depending on the delay should keep DPS even across the board without making one particular weapon better than another. This should create a variety that will allow the wielder to decide what stats are more important for their class. The below post is the spreadsheet reformatted with the concept of Small, Medium, Large type weapons...
Item Name Item Type Item Skill Equip Slot Delay Dmg STR AGI STA WIS INT Health Power Fist Weapons Battle Claws 1H Weapon 1HS - Fists Primary/Secondary 2 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 90 50 Katar 1H Weapon 1HP - Fists Primary/Secondary 2 67.6 65 0 45 0 0 90 45 Leather Fistwraps 1H Weapon 1HB - Fists Primary/Secondary 2.5 67.6 45 35 35 0 0 65 70 Leather Knuckles 1H Weapon 1HB - Fists Primary/Secondary 2.5 67.6 65 0 45 0 0 45 90 Pitchatka 1H Weapon 1HP - Fists Primary/Secondary 4 66.9 45 35 35 0 0 70 65 Small ~ 1h ~ Crushing Scepter 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 0 0 0 65 45 70 65 Battle Hammer 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 0 0 35 45 35 90 40 Knotted Club 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 40 0 35 40 0 70 65 Fighting Baton 1H Weapon 1HB - Staff Primary/Secondary 2 67.6 0 45 65 0 0 40 80 Wand 1H Weapon 1HB - Staff Primary/Secondary 2 67.6 0 0 0 45 45 85 90 Fighting Cudgel 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 2.5 67.6 0 35 45 35 0 70 65 Battle Mace 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 0 35 35 45 0 70 65 Medium ~ 1h ~ CrushingKoro Mis 1H Weapon 1HB - Staff Primary/Secondary 1.2 67.6 35 45 35 0 0 70 70 Battle Flail 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 35 0 35 45 0 70 65 Morning Star 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 0 45 0 65 0 50 90 War Club 1H Weapon 1HB - Hammer Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 0 0 0 30 20 70 65 Quarter Staff 1H Weapon 1HB - Staff Primary/Secondary 2.5 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 90 50 Large ~ 2h ~ Crushing Bo Staff 2H Weapon 2HB - Great Staff Two-Handed 2.5 84.5 45 0 35 0 35 150 100 Spellbinder's Staff 2H Weapon 2HB - Great Staff Two-Handed 2.5 84.5 0 0 0 40 70 125 125 War Pike 2H Weapon 2HP - Great Spear Two-Handed 4 85.3 65 45 0 0 0 180 70 War Hammer 2H Weapon 2HB - Great Hammer Two-Handed 5 84.5 65 0 0 45 0 125 125 War Maul 2H Weapon 2HB - Great Hammer Two-Handed 5 84.5 0 0 35 45 35 125 125 Greatstaff 2H Weapon 2HB - Great Staff Two-Handed 6 84.5 35 35 45 0 0 150 100 edited to clean up formatting.... oh...and if your still trying to figure this out...keep scrolling up!
Item Name Item Type Item Skill Equip Slot Delay Dmg STR AGI STA WIS INT Health Power Small ~ 1h ~ PierceKris 1H Weapon 1HP - Dagger Primary/Secondary 1.2 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 45 90 Dirk 1H Weapon 1HP - Dagger Primary/Secondary 1.3 67.6 30 20 20 20 20 90 50 Stiletto 1H Weapon 1HP - Dagger Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 65 0 0 0 45 70 70 Ritual Dagger 1H Weapon 1HP - Dagger Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 0 0 45 0 65 90 45 Medium ~ 1h ~ Pierce Leafblade 1H Weapon 1HP - Spear Primary/Secondary 1.2 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 90 50 Spear 1H Weapon 1HP - Spear Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 70 70 Rapier 1H Weapon 1HP - Rapier Primary/Secondary 1.6 67.6 35 65 0 0 0 70 70 Large ~ 2h ~ Pierce Halberd 2H Weapon 2HP - Great Spear Two-Handed 4 84.5 0 0 45 35 35 70 180 Voulge 2H Weapon 2HP - Great Spear Two-Handed 2.5 84.5 0 0 45 35 35 70 65 Trident 2H Weapon 2HP - Great Spear Two-Handed 5 84.5 65 0 0 45 0 100 150 Small ~ 1h ~ Slash Crescent Axe 1H Weapon 1HS - Axe Primary/Secondary 1.2 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 90 50 Short Sword 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 2.5 67.6 35 35 45 0 0 70 70 Falchion 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 65 45 0 0 0 65 70 Kukri 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 35 45 35 0 0 65 70 Tomahawk 1H Weapon 1HS - Axe Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 65 0 0 0 35 70 70 Medium ~ 1h ~ Slash Long Sword 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 2 67.6 45 35 35 0 0 90 50 War Axe 1H Weapon 1HS - Axe Primary/Secondary 2 67.6 0 20 30 20 20 70 65 Scimitar 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 2.5 66.9 0 0 0 65 45 70 65 Karabela 1H Weapon 1HS - Sword Primary/Secondary 4 67.6 0 45 0 0 65 90 45 Large ~ 1h ~ Slash Bast*rd Sword 2H Weapon 2HS - Great Sword Two-Handed 3 84.5 45 0 35 0 35 150 100 Double Headed Axe 2H Weapon 2HS - Great Axe Two-Handed 3 84.5 35 35 45 0 0 150 100 Executioner's Axe 2H Weapon 2HS - Great Axe Two-Handed 4 84.5 65 45 0 0 0 180 70 Scythe 2H Weapon 2HS - Great Sword Two-Handed 4 85.3 65 0 0 0 45 125 125 Please see my above post for an explanation edited to clean up formatting
This may be unrelated, but I just noticed the shortage of great swords in Domino's table of weapons. There's the scythe and the bastard sword (both STR/INT) but no true zweihander/great sword, as there is in earlier tiers. A tulwar would be nice too. My paladin would love a good STR/STA/WIS great sword. Powers &8^]
EvilIguana966 wrote: Actually, yes, some classes would like a shorter delay melee weapon. One specific class that jumps to mind immediatly is rangers. They have a lot of ranged combat arts, and a few melee combat arts. When their ranged are all down, they normally all go in to melee for a few seconds, and let off all their melee combat arts. When this happens, it turns on melee auto attack. When they are about to pull out of melee, and get back in to ranged fighting, if a long delay melee weapon has just attacked, they have a long wait until they are able to auto attack with their bow, thus loosing out on DPS. Should they have a short delay weapon, they will "maybe" miss out on 1 auto attack swing each time they joust in for melee, but will, in return, guarentee themselves a short/no wait on ranged auto attack when they leave melee range. While not all rangers do this, most 'good' rangers will do it on lengthy fights, and as such, a lot of good rangers that are not in raiding guilds (or that are alts of raiders, or whatever, rangers that know how to play a ranger well) will go for a short delay if that is the only difference in 2 given weapons.
