DominoDev wrote: Yeah but i bet he comes by your office frequently just in case there are more cookies cookie bribes available.
DominoDev wrote: Dirges will get manaburn right after coercers get to charm epics. (and no, Hypnosis does not allow epics to be charmed).
Haha! Thanks Az, I thought he meant the epic proc! Now if I can just get a dirge in group; they are usually feeding hate to MT and OT groups. Seriously, extending bard songs was done just for rangers? LOL. I just don't know what to say, but, I don't think a thank-you is it. I do know that we've heard "it's on our radar" several times since RoK has been released. Devs need to come up with a more original way of shelving our problems. I do cry a little inside that bards and illy's have so much utility and do the same, if not more, dps as myself. Enough so that they can pick and choose their groups and, since all buffs and procs DO stack on them, the mage group and OT group (which becomes a semi-mage group sometimes) is their priority. Scouts are just sorta thrown in the 'placeholder' group and not expected to do thier best, because they lack the buffs to perform their best. Even when we do happen to have enough illy's on that the scout group gets one (usually angry) illy, we cannot get fully buffed. In our groups there are so many scouts I have to forgo IA sometimes and make do with rapidity because there are just not enough concussion spots to give IA to anyone. I'm not ranting here; I am showing reality. SoE has made it so ALL classes are T1. Fighters; healers; utility, they are ALL T1 DPS. On top of that they bring many, many extras. Rangers are given last priority when it comes to any buffs/ buffers because they do sooo much more on other classes. Especially given that nearly no procs work off ranged. I don't think our raid leaders mean to, but, all other classes are grouped to enhance each other first; rangers are last priority. But, yeah, Aeralik, you're right.. extending bard buffs is a great relief to rangers. I am sure I can tell my raid leader after GU 43, hey, they extended dirge buffs so I won't loose them on dragon fights now, can I please have one in my group now? I can tell you the answer right now: Dirge + assassin = HT. Sorry bout your luck. Please don't pretend this was done on rangers' behalves.
Please fix the Ranger class. I'm tired of seeing Epic and VP bows bagged for a tier 7 bow. Our class is probably the least sought out class in raids or groups. (No joke).
lilmohi wrote: I am also glad that ranger utility is being considered. I have given up on ever having our dps as a class balanced to the point that we aren't ever easily replaceable by "DPS class X that also provides the raid with Y". I think EoF did the best job of getting the top damage classes in line but even then it was far from ideal when you looked at the whole package. Honestly, maybe not having rangers as the defacto top parser is a good thing; I like competing for the top spots on the parse. I like it when I have to really try. If the hit %s on orange con mobs are balanced out a little then as far as damage I think we won't be too far behind but remember damage is all we do. We are in dire need of some changes in the positive direction after wave after wave of nerfs. The sole ranger in NPU, and moderator of the EQ2Flames ranger forums, betrayed to an assassin. The officer and ranger of Strike recently said that if not for the trouble of making guild roster changes she would replace herself with another dps class. Oh and she is also open to betraying to assassin if the glimmer of hope that something will be done with our class fades. This thread and others like it are full of non ranger raiders chiming in echoing the sentiments we have been trying to give. Arrow mechanics are BROKEN. Aside from that the raiding ranger is still BROKEN. I have finally joined the camp calling for a little more utility. Enough to warrant our placement on raids if our dps is equal (not less) then other DPS classes. These are just some thoughts of some useful directions I could see that going. 1) GIVE US LVL APPROPRIATE ARROWS *As for our bows and the messed up situation we are in now.... Change crafted arrows. Make it so there is only one type of arrow per tier and they perform at the top lvl of that tier. Remove the bonuses to the hit% and +damage to help balance the additional damage. Leave room for arrow summoning objects in the game with a small +damage. The arrows from fabled summoning objects should do a little more damage and come with the convenience of less consumables. 2) Add 20% to hit to Vulnerable Arrow. The mechanics for a increased % to hit already exist on our arrows. Make it something that debuffs the target so it can help the entire raids auto attacks. *Note the change I suggest to arrows above that will not make this overpowered for the ranger but will instead help the raid dps. 3) Change Attack Hawk. Make it so that the hawk does not attack and break our stealth. Just let it sit there and decrease the group hate by 15% while up. 4) Add a debuff to Vulnerability that decreases the mobs AoE damage by 15%. 5) Give rangers and instant/quick cast heal for 25-30% of max health usable raidwide once an hour/ 2 hours. Now the %s are not important and can be tinkered with as long as the end result is some unique raid viability.
Aeralik wrote: I have to say, like others here, you know that you were aware of this problem since before epics. You yourself have posted responses to this problem both here and on eq2flames relating to this prior to epics. The reason there is MORE of an uproar since epics is that people were holding out hope that the epic would summon level 80 ammo, which it does not. I don't generally like to blame the dev team. I think you guys do a great job in general. I remember being very impressed after the update that fixed proc rates and how quickly you readjusted our damage (it was like a week or something. Was very quick). And I generally defend you guys when I get a chance but this issue has been ignored and danced around in such a way that it is hard to defend. When you created the bows for Rise of Kunark one of two things happened. Either A.) You designed them to do the damage they say they do. In which case they don't because there is not ammo in the game available to do that. Or B.) You designed them to do the damage they are doing now. In which case I would like a good reason why you decided that T8 raided bows which are harder to get for a level 80 than a Rigid Scale Bow would do less damage than a rigid scale bow. This is what really bothers me. You created these weapons. That means that they are not working as YOU intended them to. This is an issue that needs to be addressed. It's not just us begging for more damage because we feel we're too low. We're asking for bows that make sense because they are not working as the game tells us they should. Several suggestions have been given, good ones I might add, but I'll give you another one that may appeal to you more. If you don't want to give us level 80 arrows (I don't know why this is but if that's the case than fine) adjust the way bows scale to the lower level arrows. make all bows above the level of the arrow scale down some and have the amount they scale down increase at a LOGICAL rate as you get a bow higher than the arrow. Meaning, for example, a level 70 bow would lose maybe 1%, a level 72 bow would lose 3%, a level 80 bow would lose maybe 10%. I'm not sure what numbers would be good because I'd have to check them myself but the important thing is that we want a weapon progression that makes sense. As it stands now people are buying bows and then realizing AFTER they buy them that the bow is worse than what they have, because the damage that the game says the bow does is NOT the damage that it actually does. If you insist on giving us level 67 arrows than please make the way that they affect bows have a logical progression so that this is no longer the case. We want new weapons this expansion. I don't think that is too much to ask, do you?
DominoDev wrote: I have 3 lvl 80 crafters, provvy/alchy/jeweler and 1 (almost 2) that are capable of making mirrors. While I think the last major change to crafting made it too easy to do the hardest crafting writs, I am generally happy the jobs that all devs past and present dealing with crafting have done. That said, I had to sleep a night before I responded to this message, because my immediate intellectual reaction was "lame joke" and my immediate emotional reaction was to fly out of my seat using all caps for emphasis with a lot of words that would never make it past the filters to explain just how lame I thought it was. Domino, if you have been watching the forums, having a dev unrelated to our issue (unless you wanna go make a way to craft lvl 80 arrows, but you already punted on that) come in here and even hint or joke that rangers have had any priority in this game unrelated to "how can we nerf rangers today" or "priority: ignore" is rubbing salt in a very sore wound. I am sure you intended it to be an injection of levity, but after two years of constant reduction in dps- our primary and practically sole source of utility-, your comment strikes me as being further disrespectful of our situation and our emotional attachments to our toon's class. I am not quitting the game (perhaps temporarily) because of you. You have, however, along with other recent dev responses, made that decision a lot easier to come to grips with. Thanks for that.
As usual, a lot of very good, well reasoned points made by all the Rangers here. Let's keep hoping your patience/faith is rewarded. One thing that I've not seen explained is exactly why adding level 80 arrows, or simply changing arrows to be the next tier (e.g. 67 becomes 77) is such a problem. I can't see any reason why this simple change is anything other than simple, and requires only the normal level of testing. Just what is the big issue with changing level 67 ammo to 77 ? Will any of the devs confirm why this is such a hard thing to do ? The player base might be a lot more sympathetic if you do. From what I can see, the only objections would be: 1. Tier 8 bows have been designed/balanced using level 67 ammo and using level 77 ammo would overpower them. This is quite obviously rubbish, as they are currently worse than tier 7 bows, so they *must* have been balanced assuming level 77 ammo. 2. Level 68/69/70 bows from EoF i.e. bows balanced before RoK, will get a small DPS increase from using the level 77 ammo. Whilst this is true, I don't see any nerfs from the devs on existing tier 7 bows due to the sudden wide availability of level 67 ammo, so it's not really a major issue at all. 3. Lower level players with stockpiles of tier 3 ammo for example, are not going to be able to use it as it sould suddenly jump to the next tier. This argument is even sillier than the others. 4. Ranger auto-attack DPS in T8 will increase by a noticeable amount (10% ? 20%). This will bring Rangers back into T1 DPS in line with every other DPS class, and indeed some traditionally non-DPS classes, who are easily out DPSing Rangers whilst bringing extra utility to raids. I don't see how anyone can object to this ! I really don't see why this is so hard. Rangers don't need utility if they are T1 DPS. They will be invited to raids for their DPS. Bump the arrow tier and you give them their DPS back, and you don't have to spend months rebalancing the entire game. Please, would one of the devs just take 10 minutes to explain why this can't be done ?
I'm surprised they didn't add that the past 'fix' to templars, giving them the capability to cast to 35m, was just for the rangers also. I can't believe this. It's like we've been relegated to the 'joke around the office' and even other devs are posting laughing at us now. If we actually did have some sort of priorty going on, it may have been funny. However, months and months of you're fine; it's on our radar; we'll get to it when we have time; you were balanced around this broken mechanic etc etc etc is just friggen ridiculous. Even the assassins are laughing and saying just betray already and quit the bi***ing. Seriously, is it too much to ask for a straight answer? Not one that beats around the bushes or is meant to placate. We've had all the placating we can take. WTH are you going to do for rangers? It's not funny anymore. We pay to play and we deserve some straight talk.
Like I said before I'm relatively new to the ranger community (started raiding after RoK came out) and the amount of patience the rangers have shown just blows me away. Personally I think their taking advantage of the fact rangers haven't really kicked up a lot of dust about this, they've been fixing problems that more people are louder about or more people experience even though they usually pale in comparison to a severely broken class and combat mechanic. Again I really can't think of one problem gameplay design wise they could possibly be more important than ALL player combat mechanics working properly. Only problems I think of that would take precedent are things like the game itself crashing, servers not working, network/technical problems like that. And this bard crap doesn't count as fixing combat, bards aren't using level 67-70 CA's and buffs because their RoK ones are FUBAR'd. A tweak at best. Also saying our problems are pretty broad is BS. Only reason we talk about wanting utility, making us more desirable and all these other problems is because OUR BOWS AREN'T WORKING CORRECTLY, and if we aren't going to be doing TOP DPS LIKE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO, then give us a fraction of utility other classes get that also have the ability to beat us on DPS. If our bows worked correctly we would be a desirable class because we do high and we wouldn't care about utility because we are doing high DPS. The trickle effect from bows being fixed would be enormous, why you have implemented some fix for ammo and killed 8 birds with 1 stone is beyond me.
Same old same old. I've said it a hundred times rangers, If you are happy with the class now then good, if not play an alt or prey they don't push the warhammer release back!! Because nothing is being changed. This is the same type of response we've gotten for year. I'm expect we'll see a bit more communication from the devs to quite us down and they'll say a few things to give us hope so we wait a little bit longer and before you know it another year has gone by and we are left going scratching our heads.
Aeralik wrote: It's been mentioned several times since it came glaringly into the public eye, that the arrow mechanic problem was brought to the attention of the devs over a year ago and it's been a serious problem since rangers began using T8 bows. Saying that the time between GU42 and GU43 is insufficient to create and implement fixes for this issue, despite the other concerns of the Ranger community, is a complete insult. In addition, the cry for more Ranger utility was first sounded long before arrow mechanics even became an issue. You can't honestly say that you've only now begun to consider 3-year-old concerns. I think it can be agreed that the Ranger community's primary concern at this point is arrow mechanics and DPS. Several reasonable and logical suggestions have been proposed by constructive and well-informed Rangers. Rather than delay every concern of the Ranger community, why not address the most pressing one? This response from Aeralik is the last straw for me. No solutions are forthcoming in GU43 despite years of waiting in some cases. I started a Ranger on Everquest in 1999 and started my Ranger on Everquest 2 in November of 2004. I have rarely posted on these forums, but this problem and the completely unsatisfactory response to it is entirely unacceptable. Either there's a serious problem with procedure in the Everquest 2 development team; or, there's a serious problem with the Ranger developer. Either way, SoE is losing this customer and many more. Once this account expires, I'm never subscribing to another SoE game.
Beele@Nektulos wrote: Oh come on. I'm as angry as the next ranger about all of this, but don't start flipping out at Domino of all people. She managed to make me smile in the middle of a thread that was making me very heated, and while you didn't find the joke funny, have a little perspective. She did not come here to mock your pain with cookie jokes for crying out loud. (I want chocolate chip. >( )
Over on our favorite "other" forum, eq2flames, under the ranger board in a thread titled "good news" on the second page someone cut and pasted a PM he got from our dev saying that rangers still have no problems toping parses and other than a very small and minute change there isn't going to be any changes made because they just aren't needed. So regardless of the posts we have in here it seems there really is no change planned for the future.
Magius789 wrote: To be fair, the very minor change is specified as damage-wise. Granted, to be fair on the other hand, this is right after the utility issue is dismissed as no big deal. Thar, that's my attempt at being impartial for the day. My account remains cancelled until I see something concrete, which is what I decided when I first read the most recent remarks of 'we're looking into it'. Because, as much as I would dearly LOVE to be able to believe that, I've heard that exact same thing over and over and over again, on this one issue alone. As for this PM, I can be really stupidly optimistic and hope it's bogus, right? Right? Look, good grief, devs. I do not want to leave your game. I enjoy this game. I love my characters. I've put a lot of work into them and I've had a good time. I'm in love with the community on my server and have many, many, many friends there. I don't make idle threats to cancel, or hit the cancellation button frivolously. I enjoyed testing the RoK beta, even though I and others could see huge danger signs for the ranger class and our voiced concerns didn't seem to be often heeded. I enjoyed the EoF beta. I want to look forward to what you guys do next. But I have got to draw a line somewhere. All of this enjoyment is overshadowed by the fact that I no longer have fun playing my ranger, enough so that while I still have gametime left on my account my desire to so much as log in has been absolutely nil. I'm aware that one account makes very little difference at all, but I'm all but begging you guys to not drive me off from a game that, were it not for some really horribly BAD balance decisions, both for my class and certain others I could name, I would still be having a very good time. I could betray, but what would that do? I don't want to play an assassin, and never have. And it would be continuing to give money to a company who employs certain developers that I have lost ABSOLUTE faith in. Aeralik. Come on. This class needs severe fixing. I don't care how it's done even. I don't care if our DPS remains the same and we receive actual, MEANINGFUL utility to balance it out (not one tiny thing or two tiny things, a massive look over and overhaul of the class on a utility level). I don't care if we get a super damage boost instead. I don't care what's done, at this point, so long as it fixes this class and makes it viable. Please fix rangers. While you're at it, please fix coercers. Please stop saying this isn't a big deal. If it wasn't a big deal, a huge, massive, massive ongoing deal, I would not be leaving this game I love. Dear devs, please stop kicking me out the door when I don't want to leave your party. Sincerely,
