Starbuck1771 wrote: This is true, and while I dont neccessarily like GW2's Store, The one for the Secret world is meant to be clothes and such of which you can get in game as well through working for it. So You just have 2 options, and they dont offer anything as of yet that changes or aids game mechanics in any way. Oh and TSW is a sub model btw, the store is meant to be just fluff. Sort of like WoW, except its store is smaller, and what EQ2 was Before.
Staying on track though, I am just going to have to wait and see how they implement the stores for Planetside 2 and Everquest Next.
Starbuck1771 wrote: So what is SOE doing with the ~250,000 subscribers each paying $15 a month for a total of $4.5 million per year? Until there is some evidence that the cash shop is providing more revenue to SOE than the monthly subs, your argument is invalid. Actually, SOE shot themselves in the foot by allowing subscriptions to be bought with SC. I bought a year's EQ2 subscription for $29.95 because of Triple SC (with Walmart bonus). Now they have to sell more SC items to make up for a shortfall of $90 they would have gotten from me if they just funded EQ2 with a monthly sub. Starbuck1771 wrote: Citation needed. The problem with pay-to-win items is, some day soon, items will be added that your group/raid/guild will EXPECT you to have.
feldon30 wrote: Your google not working? I'll help you with one, was released a couple of months ago: http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obri...in-guild-wars-2 (of course, depends what you wanted a citation for anyways) So to mention the actual topic here.... not buying these, never will have interest in them, if someone buys them then that's their money to squander and not mine.
Starbuck1771 wrote: You just read and believe what you want to believe, all the while blinded by a "Pay to Win" is hunkey dorey mentality. Microstransactions are hip for sure, and they do offer neat things, but having pay to win items as "the way of the future" is far from decided. WoW does pretty well without pay to win items, and just to use one of your incorrectly cited examples: "We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves...it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time." There you go. Right from the GW2 mouth. To adress two quick points. Yes. These potions are pay to win because you can use them to the alter the outcome of a fight you would have otherwise lost. Don't give me the "people will just use the to heal/power up after a fight"...that is not what is going to happen and you know it. Yes these do give players and unfair advantage. Heres how. Two players almost simultaenously come upon one of the contested heroics in the WL, you know those ones can drop some nice items. One of them has heal/power potions and the other doesn't. The player who has the heal/power potions is first to engage. If they would have otherwise died without use of the potions they have "paid to win" the mob over the second player who would have otherwise had a chance to engage it after the first player's death. These type of potions have no place in a game like this and are symptons of SOEs desperation for money In seach of which, they will cater to people who want the "I win" button and want it now. We are wll down that slippery slope that many of us worried about years ago. Next will be rares so that people who are too lazy, err I mean time constrained..to harvest. Thus those of us who harvest to supply crafters will see our market diminshed; those of us who harvest to supply our own crafters, so that they can make finished goods for the market, will see our market (however small) decrease. The introduction of these potions bodes very poorly for those of us who actually PLAY the game.
Of course, I didn't read 7 pages of posts, but that being said - I'm kind of posting my thoughts on this in a bubble anyway.So if I recant what was said, etc - my apologies. I guess what I think of when I think about this is well, from one point of view - aren't there already XP potions you can buy using SC? So there is already something on the marketplace that impacts the game mechanics. Really, from one point of view anything that 'impacts' the game comes down to really just the XP (leveling) to time ratio. Healing potions, Power Potions, Rez Potions in the end impact the Time vs. XP ratio. Same with XP potions - those are just more direct. However; when I think about that some... maybe not so much - and this is why I would side with the 'it's a bad idea' camp on this... My first real EQ2 character was a Wizard - one of the lightest armored classes of course. But it wasn't terribly hard to level him to 90. A new player would have more trouble from 1-30 than pretty much anyone in this game, save maybe the raiders for short periods of time during tough content. Of course, after a successful run or two - even that can become trivial. So the 'hardest' part of EQ2 is for a new player - levels 1-30, if there's any spot that would scare someone or such with EQ2 - that's it. So leveling my Wizard from 1-90 wasn't terribly hard for me at all. I'm an EQ1 vet, played EQ2 off and on since the Stress Test Beta and all that jazz. The *only* reason I would use these potions is to give me the 'edge' on soloing group content. That's it. This might help me at level 85+ with taking out some instance bosses for example. Or clearing out a group zone solo. My Wizard, as long as he has food/water regains health/power fast enough between fights that I have to be *pushing* hard to run out, really. If I'm just plowing through a zone - nuking like a madman - the power potion might help and all. But it's easy enough to pace myself and still net the same XP in the end mostly. If you run too hard and fast for 4 hours in this game, you'll need a sanity break for a minute anyway. Plus the short quest runs from one quest to the next easily give you time to fully replenish power/mana. So really, in this game at least - can anyone see a use for these outside of using a solo character to take out group content? It would have been much better to see these in game as a tradeskilled item. If you need ideas for the Marketplace Sony - ask the community straight out. Remember - the EQ community is different than WOW players, etc - you gotta cater to us spoiled EQ vets who like a challenge. But see - that really stems from human psychology - humans need a challenge, some more than others. Nothing is really 'fun' if it lacks challenge and nothing can possibly feel rewarding unless something has been overcome to provide that feeling. Make it too 'easy' and you also take the reward from us EQ players. I often go 'in and out' of EQ - not because I don't like the game, but because I'll end up playing for a few hours - then I catch myself yawning. Not out of boredom of EQ as much as the 'bleh' of grinding mobs for hours - like production line style. It's different when there's a challenge to it - then you are on the edge of your seat, right? But quests are no better - they get to be just as much of a grind. We need a 'EQ hardcore mode' server - can you make it RP too? Put one up Sony - and see how it does. I'm not saying it will have twice the population as the others - I have no idea at all, but it would be interesting to see. Maybe on a 'hardcore' version of the game, these potions would be quite useful. Like a server where you can't do Nek Castle solo when the mobs are still blue - one where a group would 100% be required for a place like that. That being said, I don't even personally know if I'd have the time for that - and thus is why I'm not 100% opposed to items on the marketplace that can maybe boost XP gain or heal health/power - but that's it... anymore is going overboard. Personally - I like to see more clothing and maybe custom hairstyles on the Marketplace - maybe should fashion it like EA's 'The Sims' line of games, go look at their exchange and see what's popular. There's a group of 'Sims' players just LOOKING for a place to make custom houses and such - put up some ads on Sim sites and tout the player housing. That's EQ's goldmine - the housing. I know some players who play this game for no other reason - and not just a couple of them by any means. Custom Housing Objects - Custom Clothes - Custom Hair.... people in EQ like the housing a lot - many of the constant players at that too. What about like custom wallpapers, etc that would auto-tile inside the house for example?
Raknid wrote: From the same Guild War's 2 blog post: "They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items." (As a side note: the reasons for having the cash shop and their philosophy echos what has been officially said as SOE's reason and philosophy, too. I think they're all writing from the same page on it.) But, where is the line between 'pay to convenience' and 'pay to win'? It could be argued (and is by those who decided to add these items) that the "Hero's Edge" items are 'time-saving convenience items' just like the research reducers, the travel potions, the tracking potions, etc. The claim is made that they don't influence the game i general specifically since they can only be used by a solo/molo player and thus only affect that players game by giving him/her a convenience. (Frankly the example of a contested heroic being soloed is pretty weak as a reason these are game altering.) On EQ2X, there were mastercrafted items (not made by any crafter), common and rare harvests, and a few other items on the Marketplace. Again, each of those was touted as being simply 'time-saving convenience items' and, in the eyes of the producer and/or the solo player they are as well. Note: I am not now and neve have been a proponet of "pay to win" or even "pay to convenience". This addition to EQ2 is hitting my 'edge', but I've been riding that 'edge' for a long time, wondering if the next addition will be enough for me to say "that's it, I'm done" based solely on the Marketplace. I kinda feel like a plastic bag that has built in flex. Each time something gets shoved in, it bulges out a bit more but doesn't quite pierce the bag. But.. in another game I have seen something that's -way- over the edge and something I hope never comes to any SOE game, but I have to wonder how long before it does: http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2864. Drop item boxes that require a cash shop purchased key to open them. But, the biggest loss to the game play, the biggest way the items in the "Hero's Edge" category affect the game is in the player-to-player market. The craftable potions and items which have similar effects to those newly added to the Marketplace aren't even a shadow as good. There is no game play obtainable item which is as good as any of them. They're not a convenient alternate way to obtain similar items, they're the only way.
Leko@Nagafen wrote: Leko, I don't have an issue with these items either. The issue I have is 35% of players strongly disagreed with them being in game. We already have HUGE retention issues as a result of the content and itemization, we simply can ill afford any other contributing forces on the current attrition rate of players. For this reason, and this alone, I think introducing these items now was an EPIC FAIL by SoE. If they atleast had a dialogue going on the other issues, perhaps my opinion would be different.
Lempo@Everfrost wrote: Believe it or not, some people actually think that gaining XP is part of the game and struggle the same as when they are fighting a mob they do not have the DPS to burn down in record time. To those people there is NO difference between Station Cash XP potions, Vitality poition or Health / Power pots. Everything is NOT driven off of the max capped raid geared player. Comparing XP or Vitality pots, which you do not value, to health or power pots, which you do not value either, is not apples and oranges. The apples and oranges are the players that place value on those items. I do however agree with Atan, the pole numbers didn't illustrate that there was 65% of the people either in favor or of limited opinion; it showed that there were 35% of the people that fully disagreed. Now the issue isn't that the simple majority wins, but that a great deal of the active population does not agree with the course and direction of the Dev team. I have no doubt that the "Not in Group" tag line was a result of that contention, but for some, it was too little, too late.
Cyliena wrote: Mike O'Brien wrote: Tell me where to swipe my credit card to get more group/raid content, fixed itemization, and bugfixes and I will be on that like white on rice. Right now SC's choices are pretty much pink unicorns, houses, and weapon/armor appearances. The poll did not contain a question asking how strongly players feel about the issue. The 35% Atan speaks of may be ready to quit the game, may have already quit the game, or may just find this an annoyance that they will wave at but keep playing.
Rijacki wrote: This, for me personally, is the core reason that I voted against them in the first place.
Koleg@Unrest_old wrote: I have been here since the beginning so I really don't need to hear any stories of peoples 'struggles' with XP. When we have problems fighting a mob that we do not have the DPS then we go somewhere else, get better upgrades and come back and try. We do not go to the store and buy an "I win" potion. The XP potions only give some acceleration at the rate you gain EXP, not make something possible for you that was not possible otherwise, come on Koleg you are smarter than that. This isn't about a max capped raid geared player and it most certainly is apples and oranges, this is about an item that you can only purchase with cash that makes something possible for one that could not do it otherwise vs something that give a little extra experience for a legit kill. Just as described in here before 2 groups are fighting their way through an overland zone to get to a contested mob, one group quickly disbands all members and they use their full health restore and then the full power restore potions because the road to get there was so hard (yeah I know) the other group was limited to what they had available to them in game, through their own means and abilities and lost out getting the pull. Yeah that is the nature of contested zones I am not arguing that, I don't have to argue though that the group that got the pull PAID TO WIN and you can not with a straight face attempt to argue otherwise. On a final note yeah Atan is right about the 35%, what percentage selected the default option (I do not even remember what was the default, probably 'YES YES YES, PLEASE YES') Then the scientifically proven method where those that simply do not care at all will just select the first option to get past it.
Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: I would also like to add that I doubt they share a recast/reuse timer like the alchemist ones do in addition to totally trivializing the ones that we can make, power and health which the last I checked did share a reuse timer.
feldon30 wrote: All I know is I have a half dozen more players who quit citing this issue. That being said I'm sure they were already frustrated by the numerous other issues with the game and this was simply what it took to push them over the edge. In guild management, you're always dealing with attrition, you always have a percent of your players reaching burn out, and you do what you can to make the game more enjoyable for them to maximize their time left. Atleast, thats how I approach guild management. The issue is, the % of players discontent right now is higher than I've ever seen it. So high, its beyond my ability to 'manage it', and unless we can start getting some communication from SoE on the problems in the game, its not going to get better. I really don't need announcements like this one coming out with no progress made elsewhere. I can not afford the % of the players that are very unhappy with the game to grow anymore, as its already at a level beyond managing.
Rijacki wrote: Funny you should mention the dropped boxes that requires a cash shop key... they already have that in FreeRealms and have had for a while. You don't even know what's in the box until you buy the key and use it. Either you pay your money & risk getting a piece of junk instead of something you'd actually want or just have the chest taking up space. And as I said in my earlier post, my biggest issue with the items is the quality of similar in game items we had been told in the past couldn't be made better because they'd be 'overpowered'. The availble in game items would only be more underpowered if they weren't there at all.
Finora@Everfrost wrote: What's interesting is the South Korean courts have ruled that selling boxes is the same as gambling and they've outlawed them in their games: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...ckpot_Items.php The South Korean government's Game Rating Board (GRB) says MMO publishers aren't cooperating with its investigation on whether "jackpot items" -- in-game purchases for random virtual goods -- classify as gambling.What the thinking seems to be is that if a developer sells an item that gives a chance to get an item - where no skill is required at all - that is gambling. It seems that SoE has worked around that issue by making getting the box require skill but you pay for the key. I'm not sure if that difference is nuanced enough however.
I'm perfectly happy to have these items back, when I started this particular account it was on the F2P Freeport server. I was fine with the marketplace then and there are items that I hope to see return. Do I want raid gear, instant 90 pots in the store, No, of course not, but slippery slope aside they asked and of those that answered the majority ruled. My original account was started back when you had to do sub combines and didn't dare places like FG without a full group. I'm sorry if the "hard-core, I'm a veteran player and you can't do this to MY game" aren't happy with it. And before the flaming starts, I'm legally considered of sound mind and my students seem to think I'm reasonably intelligent. flame away! /hugs to everyone
