Nope, sorry done it with a guardian too. Heavy plate mitigation + buffs + martial discipline + haste is way better all around than a monk. Especially when the zerker is using my deflection skills. That is what martial discipline does, it makes the target use my deflection skills, not theirs. So, the zerker is blocking/parry/riposte as I would. So, it makes their avoidance = to monk, plus their heavy armor and aggro holding makes them way superior. I am not saying monks are broke. Go read through my other posts. I am saying there is no way they tank equally over a plate tank. Holding aggro is sometimes not as important as taking damage. When you have 15+ mobs attacking you at once from all angles avoidance does not work really. I am not wanting monks to be uber, I just want them to be equal, just like SOE stated. Now with this patch on wednesday coming, I think monks are gonna be a lot better and possibly bridge that gap to equality.
What you are claiming in reguards to taking dammage has not been my experence. I would have to see dammage logs and equipment and levels, of classes involved. In addition you will need to run tests several times to eleminate any random number generator anomaly. It has been my experance that monks actually take less damamge then simulary equipped fighters, however they have less hitpoints to make up for that. Monks do however seem to take a bigger defence hit if the monster is not in front of them.
Well I have not compared logs of mine to a zerker, but as it stands i am lvl 37 (almost 38) and my zerker friend is level 38 (almost 39). I have about 2k AC and about 3.2K HP fully buffed out zerker has about 3k AC and bout 4K hp fully buffed out. I have been killing the same mobs with him every night for the past 2 weeks finishing quests and getting access to certain areas and doing instances (like the throne room). I have seen him consistantly tank better than me on a very noticeable level. My weapons and equipment are pretty much all orange or better ( i got a green accessory or two, but all armor is yellow or better) so its not my equipment. All my skills are all app3 or better (since im a scholar). My weapons are actually better DPS than his, along with my combat skills. However, he can avoid taking damage and mitigate very well. Like I said earlier, this new patch coming tomorrow should fix a lot of this. I will be able to deflect and DPS at the same time when tanking.
Having played a berserker and now going for Monk i feel monk tanks are much better. I was tanking reds last night without a problem. Not to mention berserker damage is pretty ech and the usefullness of berserk is dubious. :smileysad: Bloodlust is great though. Too bad tranquil monks can't be lusty.
To what level did you play your zerker? What level is your monk now? At level 25 and under as a monk I could tank fantastically but since the deflections skill caps were not going up with the monk leveling I ran into issues tanking at higher levels. However, this new patch is suppose to address these issues according to an interview with moorgard at the brawlers pit.
Well the 139/100 deflection was broken, you were never supposed to have more than max. That is corrected now. They are going to make evasion better though, since they are taking shields from us. I play with guardians, berserkers or myself as MT all the time, it really isn't that much different.
Got up to 26 Zerker. Tanking was easy, but Monks are just as good maybe even better in the right circumstances. Only 19 brawler but I was tanking things that my berserker was tanking at 26 with no problem. :smileyvery-happy:
Well I have not compared logs of mine to a zerker, but as it stands i am lvl 37 (almost 38) and my zerker friend is level 38 (almost 39). level is almost everything, if you were the higher lvl you would notice the difference in the other direction.
really weird question. What does the Con of the Equipment matter? I have seen some junk that conned orange to me (Same as my current armor) but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing it because of what it brought to the table. I am sorry, I didn't look at the name of the gear ( And do not remember much about it) because I saw that my gear brought more to the table for me. I am not trying to flame, but I have read a lot of post where people refer to the equipments color as a sign of strength, and as I understand it (I could be wrong), the con on equipment is directly related to the skill to use it. I guess I am supposed to assume that everyone makes the correct choice in armor. Whatever the right choice is, I am still trying to learn how to play. I am a noob to EQ2, I mean I have only been playing for a little over a month and I have just dinged 20 a few nights ago and I am working on the Armor Quests, and no matter what my role is in the grand scheme of things, I still love this game better than EQ1. Anything is better than grinding AA's.
Equipment con lets you know how long before its gray to you. Orange has the most life left. Everything has a minimum and a maximum skill to use and to master. Take my new bracers: 215 to wear 245 to master. I can wear at 43 when they will be orange to me and at 49 they will be white to me. Just because something is orange doesn't mean its better, only that it has longer life. When my armor/items turn green I look for replacements because they will soon be gray. Although as of now you still get AC and stats from gray armor, there is ALWAYS something better out there for you by the time something is gray. Remember that most dropped armor/items and quest reward items are stat'd. Most crafted items are stat'd. Vendor bought armor is NEVER stat'd. Its better to have stat'd green armor than unstat'd orange in my opinion.
I could care less if someone perpetuates the myth that we are broke... I like being on a server where there arent too many monks.... last night I was in a group with 2 healers and a Guardian, I constantly pulled aggro without even trying from just my damage... when I did I would FD to give it back to him... When he would get down to about 20% for whatever reason I would taunt the mobs until the healers did their job, I did a way better job of tanking than he did ont he particular mobs we were fighting. Grolven was one of them. I get class envy from my firends all the time... my ranger buddy is the same level as me and cant even solo a white con when I am doing ^^greens..... The DPS I put out is scary, and FD makes traveling and soloing that much more fun... I wouldnt trade this class for anything, sure I cant wear plate and take damage like a Guardian, but I havent seen one out tank me yet, and I havent seen a scout out DPS me.
:smileytongue: While I will agree that we are great tanks we are not the best DPS there is. Those scouts are doing something way wrong, predators can do some very spectacular damage. Edit: Predators branch off into Assasins and Rangers =P In my opinion rangers are better since they get faster recharging attacks from what I have seen. Message Edited by Ntuk on 12-15-2004 09:13 PM
Any none bard scout will out dps a Monk if the scout knows what hes doing. Poison alone puts a scout above any fighting class.
GangsterFist has done a good job at keeping positive and explaining tactics that we can use to tank, while still pointing out the flaws that we still have. If you believe he is completely wrong, how about you back up your statements with facts? I think the burden of proof is on you at the moment, rather than on him. All you are saying is, "No, you are wrong, we tank good." Where are your facts?
I wouldn't call scout the DPS kinds per se. It depends on how you look at it. Its damage per a second, not maximum damage. Wizzards pack a mean punch, and their AOEs are fantastic. How about doing 700 damage to every mob in the encounter? Then doing that over and over. I would say mages have the best DPS in the game hands down. When I am in a AOE group, I don't even tank, I just taunt. Everything dies within seconds. Infact the wizzards will tell me to not even attack bodyguards on named mobs. They say its a waste of my time, just attack the named and let the AOEs kill off the body guards. I have heard about a ranger doing an HO for about 1900 damage. Thats a lot of damage on one mob. Personally I have had groups that could pull off 1300 damage HOs before. However, pulling off a HO, is totally a group effort and does require at least one of each archetype to be effective. Its not always worth it, but I can do an HO that adds +650 AC to everyone in the group. Thats not a bad buff. Scouts can do a haste one. Priests can do a power regen one. Mages can do massive damage ones. A good scout in your group controlling the wheel is a good thing. However, sometimes trying to use the wheel is well, a waste of time. Straight forward DPS is more effective at times. I like to have one scout in my group (preferably a bard, so the bard can buff me out with haste, power and HP regen, resists, and give me a proc) and then have 2 or more wizzards. AE nuke everything you see, and kill everything. Thats one tactic. I have also been in groups with 3 scouts. The DPS is insane and the mobs drop fast, however, in my experience not as fast as with the wizzards and using AOEs. Either way I am just happy with an effecient group. I'm really not an elitist and will just be happing getting xp, and not getting debt. The real trouble is finding players that can play well with you. I really can't stand to be in groups with bad healers. When I have to use compress wounds on myself because the healer is too busy spamming in /ooc, i usually tell them to shut up and heal me, hehe. As for tanking tactics with a monk, here goes one i tried out last night for fun. It seems allright. Whenever you have a guardian and a monk in the same group and you have a shaman and a cleric. Well, for one reactive heals and wards do not stack, so it can be annoying at times. However, this configuration works well and all spells actually work in line with each other. Have the monk main tank. have the guardian cast all +defense +deflection +intervine buffs on you. Guardians have one buff thats like an ultimate intervine and will pretty much absorb all damage for you. Then have the cleric and shammy buff out the monk. When the monk tanks the shammy can ward. Now, when the monk gets hit he won't take damage. The guardian will take damage because of his intervine skills in effect. Cast a reactive heal on the guardian, but dont cast any wards on the guardian. I had mentioned earlier about how my zerker buddy was tanking 15 or more mobs at the same time. Well with this tactic its probably possible as well. the guardian may have to hunker down though to fully absord all the abuse the monk gets heh. So, the monk has avoidance so they don't get hit that much. When they actually get hit, the ward absorbs. When the ward runs out and the monk actually gets hit, he does not take damage, the guardian does via intervine buffs. Now the guardian has reactive heals on him. So when he takes damage he gets healed. A lot of people were complaining how wards and reactive heals don't really work together. This is a way you can use both, and have it be effective.
