My suggestions about the power regen thing, like I mentioned above, are to allow the monk to fill the role that bards/chanters fill right now. Simply because I feel the game as a whole could benefit from more classes being able to fill that utility role. Some people may not like clothies due to the surviveability and requirement to use root/nuke or pets, others may not like the scout gameplay with the stealth and positional attacks, but they would enjoy playing a utility type class if one was available that played a little more straight forward. Now obviously if this was the direction the class went, it would have to be more than just power regen. It would require balance between both personal dps and utility (buffs). Also.. just as brigands and swashbucklers can tank successfully if properly geared, this should remain an option for monks. You guys admit that bruisers are the better tanks already. Now that the good/evil stigma to the classes are removed something should be done to really distinguish the classes from each other. Those of you who are truly interested in filling a tank oriented role could become a bruiser, and those interested in higher dps, power regen, and buffs would stick with monk, or betray from bruiser to monk.
TheSpin wrote: Bruisers are marginally better tanks, I dont want to fight with the other power regen classes for a spot. Theres chanters and bards why should we have to fight even more classes for a raid spot than we allready do for a tank spot. And those other regen classes bring a ton of raid and group buffs bad suggestion. Monks should flat out be the best dps and bring a new element to group buffs that people can have as a different option, uncommon rare hard to get stats to make deciding between a general dps or a monk a hard decision. We should tank like we currently do but with a bit more ae capabilities, with the added plus of group survivability and dps options as I listed above. AE blocker, Temp control effect blockers, Spell dbl att, flurry as a small perm% or a little bigger temp group buff every 30-60 seconds like CoB ...etc. make our haste groupwide ...etc. Either that or make us a full blown tank that can compete with any tank in every category, which I think is to crowded allready by plate classes who dominate all the tanking skills of DPS, Single target Threat, AE threat, AE ability, Group buffs and Utility, Death Saves, Tanking offensive with high mit and high uncontested avoidance they own it all currently.
TheSpin wrote: If so what will be done with all the monks defensive abilities? Tsunami, bob and weave, body like mountain, mountain stance w/mitigating blows, numbing blows, and outward calm? All scrapped? I don't think that a monk could keep all these defenses and become a low t2/high t3 dpsing illusionist spin off. Loosing all those survival tools/mit buffs would give a monk the survival of a cloth wearer as well. Besides enchanters are basically what you are saying monks should be. They had high dps, have pwr regen, and have welcoming buffs. Guess what their dps was to high in relation to their utility and it got nerfed. So again monks would be back in the same dps situation they are in now, less survival, but with more group appeal in utility. Not trying to flame ya. I just don't see this happening. Monks do need utility. It should be in a unique fashion and not taking what other utililty classes already have. Need something new for this. I support there being more distinguishing traits between the brawlers.
How bout giving monks an ability similar to this: Stance of the intangible: Duration : 20 Seconds Recast : 3 min. Target : Group -Prevents AE (Except when direct) -Increases Crit Bonus of group member by 10% -Increases Flurry and Spell Doubleattack by 5%
Crabbok@Oasis wrote: that would be an awsome ability but only have 2 things on it: 1 is it sounds more of a bruiser ability with them being the agressive one and monks being "peacefull" but they do need it. and the other problem is people are going to call it OP (people being the none brawler community, maybe even a few bruisers saying we have nothing to match it hehe). maybe if it was a 5 min timer it would be good since it is an AE prevent and a huge DPS boost, and them maybe make it 25/30 secs.
TheSpin wrote: The problem with your idea is two-fold. First, you're coming into someone else's thread and asking that their class lose its primary functionality while your class retains it, and that just makes you a jerk. Second, you don't understand why people bring so many bards/chanters. Mana regen is not the reason why people like bards. Victorious Concerto is the reason people like bards. Don't Kill the Messenger is the reason people like bards. Crit bonus is the reason people like bards. Jester's Cap is the reason people like bards. Time Compression, Velocity, Synergism, Peaceful link (and the crit bonus they come with), Coercive Healing, Enraging Demeanor (and the potency it comes with)--THAT is why people like enchanters. It has absolutely nothing to do with mana regen. Mana regen might be a reason to have one bard or enchanter per group, but as the buffs encourage people to run with 2-3 enchanters per group already, we're already overflowing with mana regen. Look, Brawlers need more utility, that much is true. What you don't get is that we should be able to give this utility without sacrificing anything--we used to be the only tanks with a raidwide, then they gave all the plate tanks both a raidwide AND a groupwide buff, and left us without the groupwide buff. Some of those groupwide buffs are pretty awesome--SKs give a ton of potency to their groups, for example. Brawlers can be given a nice group buff without sacrificing anything, since right now utility is one area where we're far behind. But honestly, I hope that when they eventually give us our group buff, it isn't mana regen--because raids already have enough mana regen. We don't need or want any more. We have too much as a result of stacking groups with bards for Victorious Concerto. Now, if you want to suggest ideas for useful group utility, it would be welcome. But mana regen is a terrible idea. Some suggestions: AE Avoid: A groupwide AE avoid would be quite useful and desireable. Cure Curse: I'm in favor of adding cure curse to mend. This (unlike mana regen) is a good way to ensure a slot because raids are frequently forced to stack mostly unneeded healers just for the sole purpose of curing curses. Because the curse cure is why they're bringing the extra healers, this actually lets us steal a slot from that 9th healer in the raid.
Mosha DKhan wrote: It can easily be a monk ability, Monks can cause the group to focus there attacks for short periods to increase what ever you want to, I would seperate them tho. A seperate AE avoid create it off our evade line and a small boost to say our haste buff make that groupwide and add 2% flurry and spell dbl att to it. Then add a temporary ability that focuses attacks to hit for max damage for 6-8 seconds seconds with a 2-3 min recast. To me a bruiser line would add more brute force such as ability mod or crit bonus or a group temp damage proc or base damage things along those lines. The ideas have to be real good because average stuff will not get you a place in a group or raid over classes that constantly buff groups in 3-4-5-6-7-8 different areas and have abilities like CoB and VC ...etc. Its easy to say there OP except when you look at what a single dirge does for a group/raid today while still parsing 30k dps. The abilities are allready there in use in the game.
Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote: You are absolutely right about the power regen comment. I know that alone wouldn't give monks a niche to fill. I think it would take more group buffs as well if this was the direction to go with the class. How about instead of an AoE avoid, a buff that causes the monk to take a higher percentage of any aoe damage than the rest of the group? That's an idea I've been thinkin about for a while now. I often think something like this could be a way to get more fighters into a raid, by increasing aoe damage by a decent amount and adding a way for extra fighters to mitigate that damage for the entire raid.
Personally, I would much rather just have an actual AE avoid than any sort of convoluted intercede-like mechanism. Take Evade check and turn it into a 15 second groupwide AE avoid. It serves the same niche that you're talking about (protecting the group) without killing the brawler.
I would also like for superior guard to be castable on other group/raid memebers. I always thought that it should have been for quite some time now. Would be another nice self or groupie proctection. Wouldn't be that difficult to impliment either.
Here are several things together I think would go a long way to fill the problems I am having with my monk and what I think the Monk’s problems I think are out there at large. 1. Meditative Mending- there has bin a lot of talk about it and it needs to be useful to reduce incoming damage. 2. Dragon Rage- I love the AOE or encounter proc and that would help a lot. 3. Stances- we have 3 stances and these can be used to alow the monk to deside what he wants to do. D stance for AOE agro and pulls hate to us. O stance for AOE dps proc and maybe more hate transfer to other. Mid stance….. a balance of the 2 allowing us to keep your agro up for a OT situation but not sacrificing to much dps. 4. There are also a lot of things on page 1 that needs to be addressed and the group utility needs help also. But I think for our main roll of tanking and agro control this would help. Edit: 1 more thing, I think that for +hate positions should actually show how much agro was gained or loosed as an amount, also if you are in position 1 and get +1 position it should give you some amount of agro baste on what you would have gotten if you where at position 2 or something. Thus if you hit a snap at position 2 it brings you up to #1 and reinforces your position with the extra position from the snap.
What about a complete redesign of Brawler "Middle Stances"? Make them neither DPS or Tank stances, but perhaps Utility stance? Just a random idea here... but it could have potential.
It could be a possiblity. I don't use the mid stance on my monk. For me it serves no purpose cause if offensive or defensive stance can't get the job done then there is no way that being half as good in either will work. Consolidate the stats from mid stance to the other stances. Combine any offensive bonus that mid stance provides to the already exsisting offensive stance stats. Basically more haste and increased slashing, piercing, crushing, and range. Then combine any defensive bonus that mid stance provided to the exsisting defensive stance stats. Basically more mit, deflection, parry, and worn armor effectiveness. The offensive stance haste gain from this consolidation could allow everburning to become something more that another haste buff that we really don't need. Make everburning a +5 crit bonus/+5 potency self buff while using offensive stance and then if the monk chooses to use defensive stance everburning will provide a 12% damage reduction/50% threat modifier with out the health drain. With the consolidation it would free up space for a benefical group utility buff.
Crabbok@Oasis wrote: Like woah, Personally for next expansion i would like to see this effect added to offensive stance ONLY. *Increases auto atk modifer by 30%*. (I would also like to se ethe bruiser offensive proc made encounter wide and proc rate doubled.) This way Defensive stance is clearly to tank. Offensive stance is clearly for DPS. Now I havent given much thought to mid stance but the utility idea is great. How about using the other peoples idea by removing the damage proc from mid stance and replacing it with a group power proc. And add in a bunch more group utlity/dps options and viola you canmake brawlers more desired in groups and raids. As everyone know there are just to many tank classes for raids. And typical utility classes such as bards/enchanters take up up to 8 slots on raids while only constituting 4 out of 24 classes. It would be ideal if a raid took brawlers instead of bards/enchanters for utility spots and as that third/fourth tank spot in raids. What would brawlers need to accomplish this? Several roup Dps based utility, group power regen based options, single target dps buffs.
I like the idea of making the balanced stance utility-based (so long as we can still accomplish our main role of tanking when in defensive stance) but I don't think power regen is the way to go for that. People don't bring bards/enchanters for the power regen (or rather, that may be the reason for the first 2 bards and first 2 chanters, but it has nothing to do with the 2-6 additional utility classes raids bring) so giving us power regen isn't going to help anything at all. DPS and survivability buffs are the way to go there. Brawlers are still missing a group buff as compared to other fighters. Lets get something really nice there to help us compete!
As a quick update, internally, we have changed Crane Twirl to grant a total of 20% AE Auto-Attack in addition to the proc it currently grants.
