Wrong again plate tanks have more avoidance across theboard they have more mit across the board they have more damage reduction across the board. Plus they all have a group buff along side their raidwide and some have multiple group buffs.
How would you even know what is required by new content when you can't even clear content from the GU launched months ago? Right thats right you don't know.
Duele Monks will avoid less than any plate tank with a shield that has more than 2200 protection. Brawlers don't have shields but D-stance is about equal to a 2200 protection shield. So plate tanks with 2400 and 2500 protection shield have significantly more avoidance than Monks and Bruisers. This is a FACT. Monks have less mit than all tanks. This is also a FACT. What damage reduction do you think Monks have? They have nothing except "Stone Cold" which they have to give up Combat Mastery to get. You say Monks are in the Pack with other fighters. This is true but they are in the bottom of the pack. They are bad MTs and were always a bad choice for OT. No guild actually wants a Monk tank right now. If a current brawler retires they will be replaced by a plate tank. Most likely a Zerker. True story that I have actually witnessed this happen. _______________________________________________________________
Then give the monk a more viable DR tool. I think they should be "about" equal meaning that their rough block if it was a protection rating would be 2400 where a Plate Tanks is 2500, not a massive difference but still noticeable. They wear leather, simple fact that they will have less mitigation, which they should. The issue I see is that their best DR tool "Stone Cold" is currently never used because you give up CM to gain it and current gameplay doesn't allow to give up such a group-dps tool. The best location I see to be adjusting the monk's personal DR would be through Winds of Salvation. It could have a targeted effect and a personal effect (basically if casted without a target). The problem I think I feel from the Left Prestige is that the ability, kinda like a Guardians, serves barely any purpose for the one casting it. Pro's Winds of Salvation: - Pull ally to you if beyond 10m, prevents AE and blocks 50% Damage. - Adds up to 18% Critical Bonus - Heals the target by % HP a second for five seconds. - CC Immunity Champions Interception: Group DR based on stacks, maximum 50%. DPS -> Threat up to 120% conversion. - ... nothing else. Cons Winds of Salvation: No actual protection benefit for the monk, beyond a weak heal and immunity. Not very helpful for actual tanking. Champions Interception: No benefit for the Guardian beyond hate increase, which already is not a problem. Doesn't assist in tanking, the return is so low though that it hardly ever stacks. - Alright I am stopping here, this isn't a Guardian Thread and I was using it as an example of another weak PvE Prestiege or at least one without many uses. The basic point is that Monks Left-Spec doesn't offer much in the way of tanking utility for the Monk. It really could stand to apply the DR and AOE-Immune to the Monk for the 5 second duration. That is not overpowering and it lets the monk greatly reduce the damage they take. I would change the Heal AA rather into a Ward, 10K ward per rank. That may be enough to add both utility and tank ability to Winds of Salvation.
Either you don't understand what these values mean OR you are deliberately asking for unbalanced mechanics. Shield protection is an Avoidance value. How is it fair that plate tanks be given an avoidance value that is higher that Monks? I under stand Monks wear leather which give plate wearing tanks a natural mitigation advantage. That is fine. What is not fine is having both superior avoidance and superior mitigation. Giving plate tanks 2500 protection while monks get 2400 is a monopoly of stats. Absolute advantage. Full spectrum domination. Having your cake and eating it too. It is completely unbalanced when plate tanks have both higher mitigation and higher avoidance. Worst of all monks are stuck at 2200 protection that doesn't scale with gear while plate tanks keep getting better shields with more protection every update. It is an ever worsening problem that is slowly making the game unplayable for brawlers and especially monks which rely on being competitive an MT.
Well back to the topic, 1 trigger death save untill cancelled will be really helpful if given to Monks (and Guardians, Bruisers as well). Maybe 10 min base reuse and castable in combat or 5 min base reuse but not in combat. Well it might be too much, but the fact that these 3 ST-Tanks don't have any "death saves until cancelled" is somewhat strange. (Well, plz don't tell me Bruisers are AoE Tanks, Bruisers are just slightly better than Monks only bacause of Wild Beating and Divide and Conquer. Plz make sure both brawlers have no significant hate transfer such as that shield's buff.)
Changing winds so the DR applies to the monk isn't really a solution though it would be nice, it is just another temp to cycle. Tanking wise here is the problem for monks, they can handle things by cycling their temps but if a temps not up they are in total RNG zone as far as getting one shotted. SOE has created mobs that auto attack slowly with big massive hits that can one hit someone who doesn't have enough damage absorbtion. On top of that they have given mobs a buff where the mobs hit increase incrementally per attack whether that attack is avoided or not. Keep in mind these are hits that could be avoided but then are struckthrough anyways. Even more so monk do have a damage reduction that triggers for 3 seconds if they take damage but doesn't trigger again for 10 seconds, guess what it is completely useless when mobs swing every 9 seconds? So since a monk gets hit for more they just aren't as great a choice in fact they are the worst choice for tanking content. I actually don't mind speccing stonecold for tanking or even tag team if I am needed to turtle up, however, by doing so I then have absolutely no group utility due to the fact monks don't have a group buff. (This really applies for bruisers too.) I use it on PK's since CM really is just too much group DPS and unbalances the health within 6% fail condition. At which point you might as well bring any other tank class that isn't a monk. It is a simple fact that the people that tell you a monk has the same mit, damage absorbtion and avoidance of plate tanks are lying or just don't have a clue. Here are more facts. Plate in defensive stance wearing a 2200+ shield has more mit and more avoidance than a monk in defensive stance. Plate in offensive stance has wearing a 2200+ shield more mit and more avoidance than a monk in defensive stance. Plate in offensive stance has wearing a 2200+ shield significantly more mit and more avoidance than a monk in offensive stance. In all those scenarios the plates also have more damage reduction. Duele can claim all he wants monks are equal but when it comes to tanking they simply are not.
Anyway now I have my power back on, my original statement has a typo in it. I had meant Brawlers to have 2500 and Plate tanks to have 2400, now I realize these are inaccurate numbers. Barrier of the Warlord (Drinal Shield) has 2,184 protection on it. This would mean that a Defense-Brawler should have about 2,258 protection in defense stance. Assuming they both are using a Mythical Shield and a Mythical off-hand. The alternative is to allow Brawlers defense stance to scale like shields do, which may be a more balanced solution overall and it would keep Monks competitive in avoidance when compared to the Plate's, without causing issues from them (I even admit this as a Guardian, the monks primary competition). Sadly the 4 and 5 keys are directly next to each other and I did not proofread my statement. I still stand by what I said that Winds of Salvation should have a DR component for the Monk. It may not be a perfect fix but it is a tool for the monk to use. - Using "open in new tab" apparently bypassing the weird Edit glitch so I was able to correct something in this statement.
Barrier of the Warlord has 2439 protection on it. You are right though that the brawler defensive stance doesn't scale with shield itemization, this has been an issue forever. Beyond that EQ2 devs treat brawler itemization with absolutely zero interest. They constantly provide incorrect delays on brawler weapons, leave out adorn slots, have horrible stats or leave out block chance, or ignore brawler itemization all together. For example plate tanks can get a mythical shield from Drinal brawlers get squat, on top of that the brawler BP that drops off Drinal didn't even get an Etheral designation until 6 months after the expansion launched. This mythical offhand you refer to doesn't exist.
Bruisers i think are better at AoE tanking since they have Blue AoE snaps. but that is beside the point. if Altruism was made groupwide, given the Cure/AoE immunity on trigger. then this could help the brawler with a added Death Save, but since any one in group can take the triggers it could not be relied upon. but it could help some. To the Avoidance problem here. I think a large part of the Avoidance problem is just itemisation. Brawlers do not have any Mythical Off Hand only weapons. there is Nothing in game atm that is better to use defensively then the weapons from the Druinal Merchant that had 18% block just added to it today. that is all we can ever get. i think that solo weapons should get like 10-15% heroic ones should get 15-20% andthe raid ones should get 20-40+%. these %'s may need adjusting or not sure. as for DR, i think the Int endline can be added to Eagle Shriek. changing the Mit to a % of DR and giving it a duration or 10-12 secs when we drop below 50% (i.e any time we get hit hard). then Eagle's Patience can be then changed to be a 1 trigger Stoneskin vs all on a longer recast then it is atm. (this change would also help Bruisers) I like Estred's idea for Winds of Salvation, i think its an easy change and would help. it would not fix all of the problems, but we dont want a single fix it all. Winds of Retribution - i am not sure if i like having Hax Health on it or would proffer DR.... not sure atm. this also leaves the Right side - DPS line that needs more damage output.
I didn't mean that Altruism should be castable also on the monk, that would be pretty OP. The Drinal shield procs like 50% block, itemization should be inline across all tank classes. Your idea of a DR eagles is a bad one, here is why, it doesn't prevent you from being 1 shot and that is the problem right now, monks simply cannot take the direct hits the way other tanks.
Hm, then Zam needs to update their Barrier of the Warlord page: http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=d1c3f8810de470ae6e0e92d29aaff226 I know the Mythical offhand does not exist, I am saying that it should. If it remains that it does not then Brawlers need some method to recoup the 300 Protection they are missing, that is assuming defense stance is indeed comparable to 2200 protection, I wouldn't know that part sadly. If brawlers get a myth though it should be different in how it protects. Copy-Pasting the proc from Barrier of the Warlord makes for stale itemization (dup-procs) I would rather see Brawlers get a comparable proc that is more suited to their class, in my mind that would be based on dodge rather than on block.
No thanks, I'll take the 5 magic stoneskin clicky with 10% group hate and the 12% hate gain proc with 20% block chance and nice damage.. \aITEM -268829911 -1030757807 0 0 0:Barrier of the Warlord\/a not to mention the 3 white adorn slots with a red slot..
Monks are bad son. Apparently we need itemisation? lolwut I don't know what Duele was thinking, I have no idea where he gets these crazy ideas. Unrivaled Focus as I always understood it was to mitigate multi/flurries. You say CM is way overrated then complain when you don't have it, make up your mind. I, for one, absolutely love stone cold, such a broken ability. The day I see a problem with tanking for monks, I'll hit you up and we can brainstorm. <3
You say that like the fact he hasn't cleared the expansion is based on his ability to tank. On that theory are you willing to take credit for all the progression we had (or lack thereof) together in Mass Extinction?
Oh I get it now. The one shield in the game with >2200 avoidance makes a plate tank better at tanking than every single monk with defence stance. Here I thought there were shields dropping everywhere with >2200 avoidance. This link shows the best 6 shields in the game. Only one has >2200 http://u.eq2wire.com/item/item_upgrade_search_soe/442382407497/967705600/Secondary/ I think the odd tank that gets the drinal shield is entitled to be considered the best tank on the raidforce. Who knows what the future loot holds but mountain and molehill spring to mind at the moment.
Oh I get it. We just compare fighter on paper that stand there and do nothing...and thats how balance works right? Never mind the fact that some Monks just seem to be too lazy to push buttons when they are supposed to to chain together temp abilities better than any other Fighter. Monk avoidance less than Plate tank with Myth shield. Wait than push temps of avoidance abilities and see real avoidance numbers on ACT. Monks mitigation less than Plate tanks mitigation. Wait, push temps to increase mitigation. Monks damage reduction less. Spec for damage reduction, /gasp (a group buff!!!) Or the other damage reduction of physical damage 30% every time you are hit for 3 seconds that can trigger every 10 seconds. Monks are far from lacking, and are in fact still fantastic MT's.
Did some research. There is only one shield with more than 2200 Protection and that IS the Mythical. Asking for changes to make Monks have more protection than 2200 is not balanced, it's asking for Monks to have the edge over other MT classes again like they did at the start of DoV with strike-through immunity. As it stands having a Brawler with 2 weapons in Defense (with added delay for DW as all fighters have) is no different than a plate-tank with a Teku Shield. The only difference hits with the Drinal Mythical. Sometimes classes get things that make them better for a period. Perhaps it's the time for Plate-Tanks again, Brawlers were top in DoV/SS only the Guardian could compete for viable HM-MT positoin. I may agree that Monks need some quality of life changes, but their avoidance for all but the "End-Game" is pretty much equal from the research I did. I still stand that if any "special" item is added to Drinal for Brawlers it must have a different proc than Barrier of the Warlord, copying the effect makes that Mythical all the less Mythical. It's a special thing, much like Trakanon's shield was.
So typical of you, posting like other tanks don't have temps they can chain. Where does it even say monks are supposed to be the chain temp ability fighter? Again even with temps other tanks avoid more, have more mit and have more damage reduction.
