No you can't see anything because it is my opinion and nothing more, but likewise you have haven't provided anything to back your opinion. At the end of the day I am only going by my personal experiences. You seem to be inferring that it's now easier to have a MT Guardian than a MT Monk. Maybe that's true, but it's still perfectly ok to have a monk. I play a bruiser and a zerk, neither of which has strikethrough immunity, so I think it's still a good thing for benefits of a monk.
the problem is the just saying its my Opinion and you can not say i am wrong is unless you bake up your opinion with facts then your opinion can not be justified. GuardIans have more in the way of defensive abilities to deal with the current HM encounters (I think). But a well played Monk or Pally with the right other classes can tank all of these HM mobs, this is what it mean to be a viable MT Class. a Guard can not tank the HM mobs without of the right classes, but a monk needs a titer range of classes then a Guard or Monk since the monk is so relient of the Assassin/Swash for hate transfer. there are other things that make it harder to tank the same content on a monk then a Guard or Pally and there are some things that make it easier, this is called trade off. non of the reasonable suggestions here would make monks over powered just give us options. If you see problems with the way Buisers and Zerks work, I.E AA/Prestige/abilities then make threads about it. if you want to talk about the Brawler Shared AA's and have suggestions about the things that have or have not been talked about have at it. lets talk spesifics here, individual AA/Prestige/abilities. Also all tanks have some ability that has strikethrough immunity. then they took strikethrough immunity away from Brawler DStance they gave it to all tank temp avoid abilities. so your bruiser has at least 1 normally (i dont know the name) and has access to Tag Team. I also think the Zerker has 1 as well.
Look, I'm not claiming to be all knowledgeable on fighters. I only started raiding regularly a month ago, and my fighters used to be heroic only (bruiser is now used on raids). I just see what I see and I see monks doing really well. After this comment I'm going to shut up as I can't back up anything. By strikethrough immunity are you referring to a invul ability? Because that's pretty much all tag team is. 8 seconds to dodge all attacks. Not the same as an innate avoidance. Zerkers have a 3 sec invul, and that's it.
all of the 100% avoid temp abilities i have seen have the test in them that says "Makes Caster Immune to Strikethrough Attacks" this effect works as long as the ability is active but Tag Team is missing this. Sorry. the Bruiser ability that works this way is Impenetrable Will 12 sec Parry. from a quick look Zerkers also have assess to Dragoon's Reflexes that looks like it may have Strikethrough Immunity, i have heard that Warriors dont take. these are the type of abilities that have Strikethrough Immunity, classes have it all of the time. Back to the topic at hand. there are 2 abilities in the brawler tree that could use looking at Int endline and the Agi endline. Also most of the Right and Left end half of the Prestige abilities.
Hehe I said I wouldn't respond again, but... I was getting confused with strikethrough avoidance vs strikethrough. Yes all fighters have temporary invulnerability abilities, some more than others. The Dragoon Reflexes are pretty useless as you can't autoattack so you lose aggro if you use it. I don't know how many monks have, I have 2 as a bruiser, 3 if I took tag team. Zerkers have one, two if taking Dragoon which as I said is useless. The one for the zerker is only 3 seconds (compared to 8s and 12s on bruiser) so it's not great. Monks still have 50% additional strikethrough that others don't get from your mythical buff. I know my tanks struggle to get 50% strikethrough from gear (currently 30-40% but my gear is poor for a raider still) , so having 100% (assuming it's not capped) means you've got a good reason for being MT compared to others, particularly on brawler mobs which I believe is quite common on HM mobs (I've only witnessed a couple of HM fights in CoE so my experience is limited). Anyway, I have no problems you suggesting improvements to the class. I just wanted (originally) to chime in with my perception of the class as some people said monks are now the worst class, which I strongly dispute. You may not be THE only option as a tank anymore, but I still think you have a lot going for you. I haven't even touched on the damage reduction abilities
I'm pretty sure you can auto attack with Dragoon. In fact you can taunt as well. You just can't cast any CAs that cause damage. I could be wrong but I can't log in game to confirm right now. Strikethrough is nice but for brawlers strikethrough avoidance is vital because when we do get hit it's usually for way more damage than plate tanks get. I think the issue you're confusing, Regolas, is tanking in general vs. tanking high end raid mobs. Brawlers are starting to lag behind in that category, partly due to useless Prestige abilities. We tend to be sensitive about it because most of us remember what it was like before DoV when we were the red-headed stepchildren of raid tanks.
the fact that when monks (both brawlers) get hit 80% of the time it is for a lot more is why some of the suggested changes may look at first overpowered but i dont think that would be. specifically the Int line just giving it a 10 sec buff of what it does know anytime we drop below 50% would help us with the streakiness. changing the Left Side Prestige so the Monk gets some type of defensive bust from of, like just making the monk affected by the original effect (5 sec 50% DR and AoE involn). these changes may look OP at first but i really dont think they would be nor do i think the other changes would be either.
Maybe I've got it the wrong way round then, no CAs with dragoon not autoattack. It's flawed anyway. /shrug I dunno, I've just joined a guild to start raiding (finally found somewhere that raids during my playtimes). We do some HM mobs and will do more once a consistent raid force is achieved. I've jumped straight in as a Bruiser to being 2nd choice MT behind their well geared MT. My bruiser has mainly Primal and Shiney Collection gear, and is doing just fine. I rarely have aggro issues (in fact I often take aggro off the MT Guardian when I don't want to!), I have a couple of useful invul abilities and what not. So considering my gear is poor, yet I'm still fulfilling my role, I think we're ok. No one has a problem keeping me healed really. Now, considering I'm a bruiser, who's supposed to lean towards OTing while Monks lean more to MTing, if I'm finding it relatively easy, I'm assuming monks would too. Plus I've seen monks tank on raids and they "seem" to have an even easier time!
But are you tanking 4 well Drinal or any of the other high end fights in the game? That's where the problems seem to stand out the most.
Regolas with his whole 1 month of raid tanking seems to be an expert on what a class he doesn't play should do and be able to handle. Let's make a few things clear, guardians have the most strikethrough immunity as their temps can keep them strikethrough immune for the majority of the time, like 40 secs+ per minute. They do this while having access to superior mitigation, damage reduction and stoneskins. Some say guardians don't dps that well so it even things out, however, a good guardian is within 10-15% dps output of a monk, but honestly when you are talking about tanking dps doesn't matter because all that matters is if you can hold agro and guardians have superior agro generation with their transfers plus buffs they can get from in game items etc. Now the other argument is well monks can OT, sorry but monks are a horrible choice for OT since they are probably hands down the worst class to handle multiple adds. But wait monks have CM so they are good buffers, sorry bruisers have CM as well while being the better choice to MT and OT, and zerks buff melee better while also being the better choice for MT and OT.
All classes can uses fixes to certain useless, or lacking abilities. So nice list Silzin. But for those pretending like Monks are found wanting...get real. Monks are just in the pack with the other Fighters now instead of miles ahead.
Calm down. I never said I was an expert, in fact the opposite was said and the exact reasons you said, only one month of raid tanking. I just gave my (limited) perspective from someone who plays several fighters, but not a monk. Why should monks be the best anyway? I said this a few posts back, if every fighter demanded to be the best at something you'd need 6 different fight types. And boohoo zerkers are finally good at something again after 2+ years of not being useful for raids at all. It seems you're so blinded by your own class desires that you refuse to accept another opinion as even semi valid. I've never said any of these suggestions are OP or unreasonable. I looked at this thread because I was surprised that monks were supposedly in bad shape, because most NON-monks don't think they are. PS - learn to use paragraphs, it's easier to read with spaces
LOL aren't you the guy claiming monks avoid the most and shouldn't get buffed then when I pointed out monks avoid less than plates while having less mit and less damage reduction and backed it up you disappeared for a month+? Funny that you decided to pop back in to continue your usual garbage. So Duele, what has changed since I pointed out your complete lack of grasp of how this game works over a month ago that sent you running? Seems like you are already back to your own garbage of trying to keep other tanks down while you cry how you can't get the job done with your OP SK.
Zerkers have been great for over year now. Sorry you are among the people who were too slow to figure it out.
No one says monks have to be the best, we're just voicing a few concerns about high end tanking. So yeah it's gonna rub some folks raw when someone who doesn't even tank high end implies that nothing's wrong. And I for one am glad that zerkers are finally getting some love, it's long overdue. I think Pallies can use a bit more love in both the snap and DP department. Yes everyone is going to find something that they want to improve in their class, for trolls that play another class to come along and say nothing is wrong gets old after a while.
It is plain as day what is wrong with the class. These guys can come here and post all the garbage they want but in reality you simply cannot argue against the following points: monks avoid less monks have less mit monks have less damage reduction monks lack a group buff monks right side prestige (DPS) spec is completely useless monks left side prestige (tanking) spec needs work
You trying to compare monks to everybody and mad they are not best at everything still is funny man. Sorry, Monks are fantastic MT's still. You wouldn't know that though would you? Try playing a class for its intended roll.
New content, changes to some classes. More changes on the horizon. Monks still have greater actual avoidance than any other Fighter, except Guards is all that you could point out. Monks still can string together more survivability than any other Fighter is what you seem to keep ignoring. Shows how little you understand claiming that SKs are OP'd in the same sentence claiming that Monks are behind all the other Fighters. It is this kind of loud fighting though that got Monks to the massive OP'd class they were since DoV. Can't say you aren't good at being the very squeaky wheel with these imaginary problems.
I wasn't the only one, you guys were out-blocking Shield-tanks without a shield. I didn't expect them to reduce it as far as they did though. I expected them to move an average of the original 40% block you got (20% for each weapon) and make it about 30% on their off-hand. That was my only real problem with monks in terms of tanking. Remember I am a Guardian so it is in my interest to place monks near me but not past me, Guardians were designed as the MT since day one. I am a strong advocator of class-rolls. It is not my fault if SOE takes thing in a different direction. One person alone does not influence balance across the forums, it comes by consensus. I don't think monk's need a DPS nerf though and anyone who does is just delusional. They have their roll and other tanks should fill the roll in different ways. Say monks do DPS even though they are MT. That would mean Guardians have the best group and tank-to-tank utility/survival. Paladins would have the best support/buffs for the group especially to help healers heal better.
Late as heck to the person I was addressing. Sigh, I agree with a fair bit of what Silzin has said. I will leave it at that. Still can't edit on this thread, otherwise I would have done so.
