Mini Winter ROAD TRIP 2019

Discussion in 'Test Server Forum' started by Cyrrena, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Ah, I loved 'em, both the poem and the summary! ;)

    Ray Bradbury was my favorite writer of all time (still is [even though we didn't agree on everything], but it's tough getting anything new out of him...), and while I knew he was the consultant for Epcot in general and the space program and futuristic bits in particular, I've never actually been there to see it in person [I'm now envious of Uwk! Maybe when/if we win the lottery... :D].

    Question, Cy:

    Those various gift shops: do they do ordering over the Internet in RL, by chance? :D

    Uwk
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  2. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    well when you finally get that tundra snapper you can put it up in such a way that it chases the ducks ( yum)
  3. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    I did a search for 'epcot stores online' and got several links. I didn't check them.
  4. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    that spring road trip sounds more like a trip around the world I would do Hawaii , Australia, New Zealand and Japan in Summer
    plus any other Asian countries that people want to visit.
    who knows maybe this time we travel by submarine.
  5. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    Hopefully the fires in Australia are out by then. They are having a bad time there.
  6. Cyrrena Well-Known Member

    I can do the ones where you cannot see the tracks. If I can see the tracks, out the window the go. I love the simulators. My first experience with those was in Las Vegas and I think my friend and I went on those about 3 dozen times over a weekend, they had 3 different ones.
  7. Cyrrena Well-Known Member

    Yes they do!!! Both Disney and Universal sell everything online as well!!
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  8. Cyrrena Well-Known Member

    Ok ROAD TRIPPERS, sorry for the delay, I had the ISP techs out yesterday to sort out the crashing and latency issues which I should have no latency since my connection is about 250 feet from where the main box for the provider is. All is good now, its been stable for 24 hours and the speed has more than quadrupled.

    Here is a summary of our last day of the Mini Winter ROAD TRIP 2019, which we spent at Universal's Islands of Adventure. The first thing we came upon as we entered the park was Cinnabon!!!! Nom Nom Nom, I got a regular cinnamon roll with raisins and some cinnasticks to go!!! After getting our Cinnabon fix, we went left and entered Marvel Super Hero Island.

    In Marvel Super Hero Island, there was The Incredible Hulk Coaster, Storm Force Accelatron, Doctor Doom's Fearfall, and The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman. I offered to hold a place in line for us at The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman which is a 3D/4D Motion Simulator, while those that like coaster and the spinners and droppers went on the other 3 rides. The Spiderman ride was outstanding, you actually felt like you were part of the movie, the only part I did not really care for was the 400 foot freefall. But in the end we saved the Statue of Liberty from the bad guys.

    Next we entered Toon Lagoon. In this zone, there is Me Ship: The Olive!, Popeye and Bluto's Bilge-Rat Barges, and Dudley Do-Right's Rip Saw Falls. Me Ship: The Olive! Is a 3-Story Play Area for kids that looks like Popeye's ship, there are water cannons on the top floor where you can spray water on the Barges from Popeye and Bluto's Bilge-Rat Barges. Speaking of Which, Popeye and Bluto's Bilge-Rat Barges here is the internet description:

    Get set for spectacular splashes and lots of silliness. That blowhard Bluto has made off with Popeye's best gal, Olive Oyl, and the only way to save her involves an 18-foot octopus and a lot of water.

    Hold on tight as you brave your way through raging rapids. And keep your eyes peeled for snippets of classic cartoon humor, including a super-sized cephalopod with 10-foot tentacles. You'll laugh. You'll scream. You'll be really wet and squooshy.

    I think Ttobey really loved this one, there were cephalopods and tentacles!!! The last attraction was Dudley Do-Right's Rip Saw Falls, here is the internet description:

    Part roller coaster, part water flume, this ride combines the fun of the classic cartoons with edge-of-your-seat action. As our story unfolds, Snidely Whiplash has once again kidnapped fair Nell Fenwick, and it's up to the lovably laughable Royal Canadian Mountie, Dudley Do-Right, to rescue her.

    As your flume log sloshes its way through twists and turns, keep a lookout for funny puns and visual jokes that were a trademark of the animated series.

    And once you find yourself approaching that final nail-biting 75-foot drop, get ready to whoosh down the track—underneath the water level—for the biggest splash of your life.

    I went on all 3 of these attractions. I do not usually have issues with log rides or water flumes as they call them because the tracks are typically hidden under water and I didn't really have issues with these. The good thing about getting sopping wet on these rides was that right between the Barges and the Rip Saw they have human sized drying machines and for $0.50 you are completely dry in about 3 minutes. They are like those tubes that you use if you go through the teller at the drive-though bank, and you put your stuff in the container and push the button and whoosh the container goes through the tube inside to the teller. You stand in the tube and get dry.

    Next we entered the Skull Island: Reign of Kong zone. This entire zone is one attraction, this is the internet description:

    The ride is an original adventure set in the 1930s, casting guests as explorers with the 8th Wonder Expedition Company, which has set up its jungle base camp in an ancient temple inhabited by a hostile, Kong-worshiping indigenous tribe. The queuing experience is phenomenal, featuring both lifelike animatronic figures and live haunted house–style actors who aggressively startle unwitting guests.

    The winding, skeleton-strewn path eventually leads to your transportation: an oversized 72-seat open-sided “expedition vehicle” that superficially resembles Animal Kingdom’s Kilimanjaro Safaris trucks. It's helmed by one of five different animatronic tour guides, each with its unique personality and backstory, which lends the attraction additional re-rideablity. Your ride begins with a short loop outside through the jungle (which may be bypassed in inclement weather, abbreviating the experience by almost 2 minutes), ending at the massive torch-framed doors in the center of Skull Island’s imposing stony facade. The doors open, allowing you passage into a maze of caves and caverns; there, you’re swiftly assaulted by all manners of icky prehistoric bats, bugs, and beasties, brought to gruesome life through a mix of detailed physical effects and razor-sharp 3-D screens (even better than the ones in Gringotts and Transformers). After barely surviving a preliminary series of multi-sensory near misses, you’re thrust into the center of a raging battle between vicious V-Rex dinosaurs and the big ape himself, in a climactic sequence similar (though not identical) to the King Kong 360 3-D attraction on Universal Studios Hollywood’s tram tour. Finally, just when you think it’s all over, you’ll have one last face-to-face encounter with the “eighth wonder of the world,” only this time in the fur-covered flesh.

    This was almost 25 minutes long to go through the whole zone on this safari tram but it was incredible. It is definitely something you would want to do again should you visit Islands of Adventure in the future.

    Next we entered the Jurassic Park Zone. In this zone we found Camp Jurassic, Pteranodon Flyers, Jurassic Park River Adventure, and Jurassic Park Discovery Center. Camp Jurassic is another multi-level play area for children, so only the gnomes, ratongas, and halflings could actually play in there. The Pteranodon Flyers is a steel suspended roller coaster but its not actually a roller coaster, it is more of a monorail, there are no twists and turns or free falls or large climbs, its basically a flat track about 150 feet above the ground that goes about the Jurassic park zone in about 80 seconds. Here is the internet description for the Jurassic Park River Adventure:

    The ride was designed to replicate the atmosphere of Isla Nublar. Guests began the queue by walking under the Jurassic Park Sign before waiting under an open-wall building. A tour guide appeared on television monitors in the building, reviewing boarding and ride safety. Other videos played with some about the "safety of the ride" spoken by InGen employees, John Hammond (Richard Attenborough) talking about the dinosaurs, and music from the first film's score in the background. Guests were then split into two lines to board their rafts.

    The raft rises against an elevation, followed by a small plunge. It then enters the Jurassic Park Gate. In the Ultrasaurus Lagoon, the visitor encounters a large adult Ultrasaurus which raises its neck high above the riders, then slowly lowers it back near the water. Two Psittacosaurus in the lagoon eat plants and drink the water nearby, a mother Ultrasaur and her young were seen eating and communicating. Three Psittacosaurus also ate and hid in the tall grass. The raft then moved behind a waterfall and emerged in Stegosaur Springs, where riders saw an adult Stegosaurus and its young. Two Compsognathus were seen fighting over an empty popcorn box before the raft entered Hadrosaur Cove, where a Parasaurolophus popped up and sprayed water at riders. An announcement was heard from Jurassic Park Animal Control, saying that the Parasaurolophus had thrown the raft off-course and caused it to enter the raptor containment area, which riders could see had been heavily damaged.

    Riders then encountered an abandoned raft where a Dilophosaurus could be seen eating the remains of a poncho. A nearby motorboat was also abandoned, sent by Jurassic Park Animal Control to guide the raft towards a safe area, but the Dilophosaurus appeared to have killed its crew as well. A Mickey Mouse hat was seen floating in the water next to a ruined raft, an apparent jab at Universal Hollywood's theme park rival Disneyland. To the raft's right, the growls of a Tyrannosaurus rex were heard, and a heavily damaged tour vehicle was seen being pushed over the wall—a homage to the original movie where Tim Murphy is thrown off a ledge in a tour vehicle.

    The raft goes through a cave with water trickling down its sides. Riders then enter Stegosaurus Springs, a "volcanic" area like Stegosaurus South in the novel. A pair of Stegosauruses stand on either side of the river. One is much bigger than the other, towering over the raft and its riders, suggesting that the other may be a juvenile.

    The raft begins to head toward a part of the park known as Hadrosaur Cove. A large Parasaurolophus pokes its head up from the water and shoots water from its nose onto guests. Seconds later, a startled duck-billed Parasaurolophus jars the raft, causing it to drift into the Raptor Containment Area, which is shown to be heavily damaged. Jurassic Park Animal Control addresses riders through loudspeakers, telling them to stop the raft and get safe place. (Voice-overs on the ride explain that the Raptor Containment Area was a section that had never been successfully integrated into the rest of the park.)

    Off in the jungle area to the right, Raptors can be heard rustling the bushes and plants. The raft passes a replica of the Raptor Pen from the film, and riders hear snarling Velociraptors in the dense foliage while branches move, simulating the creatures attempts to escape their confines. A large hole is torn in the wires of the fence. Two Compsognathus are seen fighting over a bloody crew shirt, and the boat ("CP 25") is seen that Animal Control sent to guide the riders towards a safe area; the Compsognathus have apparently eaten the crew. The raft heads toward the water treatment plant, where riders see a Velociraptor run into a dark corner. A large crate with something snarling inside, possibly a raptor, nearly falls and crushes the riders.

    The riders then begin to slowly head up a steep hill into a large building in silence and darkness. The riders then enter a dark tunnel with several pipes near the ceiling. To the right of the riders, there is a shadow of two raptors growling inside a pen. A Velociraptor now jumps out of a dark corner and begins squealing and clawing at a gate sparking with electricity. Another raptor is seen jumping up from a control panel and snarls at guests. As the raft follows a short drop and a right turn, sirens begin blazing loudly due to an evacuation. only to stop seconds later. Suddenly, a loud (fairly high pitched) Dilophosaurus squeal is heard, followed by a frill-less Dilophosaurus snarling at the riders. A loud roar then can be heard, and large three-fingered claw mark can be seen ripping through the wall. Moments after, a few Dilophosaurus jump up beside the raft, spitting their poisonous venom (actually water) at the guests. In front of the riders is a couple of flashing lights as well as mist and fog. Seconds later, the head of the Tyrannosaurus rex appears in front of the riders, roaring and growling. He roars very loudly and bends over snapping his jaws and then raises his mouth towards the ceiling. As the Tyrannosaurus rex bends its head down to try to eat the riders, the raft then plunges down an 85 ft 51° drop.

    This was another incredible attraction and definitely one you should put on your must do this again if I visit any Universal Park in the World. And here is the internet description for the Jurassic Park Discovery Center which is an interactive museum type area. It was pretty cool.

    Now, for the first time, you can unearth the mysteries of our planet's prehistoric past at this interactive center where dinosaurs have been brought back to co-exist with humans. Test your DNA to see what kind of dinosaur you would be, experience how they view and hear the world, and play the hilarious trivia game You Bet Jurassic™. Marvel at towering fossils of a massive T. rex and other creatures that once dominated the earth. And examine dinosaur eggs in the nursery where, if you're lucky, you might see a baby Velociraptor hatch.

    It was time for lunch so we stopped at the Burger Digs in the Jurassic Park zone. They had a lot of different burgers, salads, chicken, chicken sandwiches, milkshakes, a good variety for everybody, if not, there was pizza next door.

    Our next zone was The Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Hogsmeade. In here we found Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey, Flight of the Hippogriff, Hagrid's Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure, Hogwart's Express - Hogsmeade Station which goes to London is Universal Studios, and another Ollivander's Wand Shop.

    Here is the internet description for Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey:

    Enter through the towering castle gates and make your way down the familiar passageways and corridors of Hogwarts™ School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Visit iconic locations such as Dumbledore's office, the Defence Against the Dark Arts classroom, the Gryffindor™ common room, the Room of Requirement, and more.

    Then get ready to soar above the castle grounds as you join Harry Potter™ and his friends on an unforgettably thrilling adventure. This amazing attraction uses groundbreaking, state-of-the-art technology (and a little magic) to create a one-of-a-kind ride.

    I tried this as it is a "dark" ride, I panicked when I found out that the 4 person cars are on arms and they have dome screens around them so that the scenes are carried from one area to another. Its a great ride, its high definition and 2D so motion sickness is kept to a minimum, but its still a roller coaster of sorts but there are no tracks, just this big arm that holds 4 person cars.

    Next was Flight of the Hippogriff, this is a kiddie coaster, there are no wild loops or climbs or dives, so its just my speed, here is the internet description:

    Enter the grounds of Hagrid's hut, where you'll hear Fang barking. As you make your way onto the ride, Hagrid gives instructions on the proper way to approach a Hippogriff. A Hippogriff is a magical creature that has the front legs, wings, and head of a giant eagle and the body, hind legs, and tail of a horse. The Flight of the Hippogriff™ is a family-friendly roller coaster that spirals and dives around the pumpkin patch, and then swoops past Hagrid's hut.

    The last attraction in this zone that we visited was Hagrid's Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure. This is a regular roller coaster, tracks you can see, one person cars that look like motorbikes with sidecars and in the sidecar is Hagrid. Here is the internet description:


    An epic new addition has arrived to The Wizarding World of Harry Potter™. For the first time ever, fly deep into the wilds of the Forbidden Forest, beyond the grounds of Hogwarts™ castle. As you twist past towering trees, magical creatures and wondrous surprises surround you. One misstep could drop you into an endless pit of Devil’s Snare, or put you in the sights of a centaur’s bow. Anything can happen here.

    With Hagrid™ as your guide, an all-new adventure is taking off as you board magical motorbikes to fly far into the dark forest. Hurl past impossible obstacles and dodge fierce beasts you’ve never seen before on a freewheeling coaster flight that will bring you close to some of the wizarding world’s rarest magical creatures.

    I waited in the entrance while others in the group rode this attraction, they may wish to add their input here. But since it was a normal coaster, no, no, nope, not for me.

    Our next zone loomed ahead and it was The Lost Continent. There are two attractions in this zone, The Mystic Fountain and Poseidon's Fury. The Mystic Fountain isn't a ride, its a magic fountain. Here is the internet description:

    Carved of ancient stone atop the mysterious underground geysers of The Lost Continent™, this feisty fountain in Sindbad's Bazaar is home to a mischievous water spirit who speaks to (and splashes) those brave enough to match wits.

    When awakened, the fountain plays music and jokes around, interacting with all who approach. Toss in a coin and you might get your wish—or a surprise squirt.

    It was cute and there was an interaction point in front of it where it would interact with your magic wand. I didn't have mine with me so I do not know what it would do. If someone else had theirs with them, perhaps they will chime in and tell us. The other attraction was Poseidon's Fury. This attraction isn't a ride, its a walk-through live action show with movies, special effects and more. Here is the internet description:


    With the help of an archeologist guide, you'll venture through the darkened ruins of the ancient Temple of Poseidon, Greek god of the sea. But once you've journeyed far beneath the ocean, you'll find it's too late to turn back.

    Feel the fury as you're caught in a colossal battle between Poseidon and the evil Lord Darkenon. Fireballs burst, lasers flash, and water erupts around you in this spectacular special effects experience. Will you make it back to the surface before the temple comes crashing down?

    This was good and a change of pace being able to walk-through. Its to bad that its due to be shut down and dismantled next month. So its a good thing that we saw it now before it is gone forever.

    Our final zone was Seuss Landing. YAY!!!! I love Dr. Seuss. Here we found The High In the Sky Seuss Trolley Train Ride, Caro-Seuss-el, One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish, The Cat In The Hat, and If I Ran The Zoo. The High In The Sky Seuss Trolley Train Ride is an elevated train. Here is the internet description:


    As you wait to board this slow-moving trolley, you'll be treated to a retelling of the Sneetches. Then, sit back and relax as you wind your way above the imaginative buildings and rides of Seuss Landing.

    There are two different tracks your ride might take. One continues the story of the Sneetches, while the other takes you through the ABCs of your other favorite Seuss stories.

    You might even get to ride inside Circus McGurkus Cafe Stoo-pendous™, where you can wave to everyone below as they grab a meal.

    It moves very slowly so even though you can see the elevated tracks its not what I would call a coaster, its simply an elevated train. Its a cute ride. Caro-Seuss-el is carousel ride but with a Dr. Seuss twist, here is the internet description:

    A Merry-Go-Round From The Mind Of Dr. Seuss. Not only can you climb aboard a creative cast of Dr. Seuss characters, you can make their eyes blink, ears wiggle and heads turn. Little ones will love this sensationally Seussian twist on the classic carnival ride. And while you're enjoying the view, look up high to see Horton the Elephant carefully guarding his special dandelion and its microscopic inhabitants.

    This was adorable and fantastically detailed. All the characters looked exactly as they are illustrated in the Dr. Seuss books. Next it was on to One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish. This is a kiddie ride similar to Dumbo at Disney but with fish. The kiddies have to pay attention to the musical score that is playing and do what the words tell them to like Simon Says or they might get squirted. I did not go on this but waited in case the smaller races amongst us wanted to. Then we were on to The Cat In The Hat. This is a dark ride, it is not high speed or a thrill ride, here is the internet description:

    This indoor, sit-down attraction recounts the entire Cat in the Hat story from beginning to end, in a little more than four minutes. Guests ride on “couches” through 18 different sets inhabited by animatronic Seuss characters. Of course, mayhem ensues when Cat brings Thing 1 and Thing 2 over to play, as the beleaguered goldfish who tries to maintain order in the midst of bedlam, but the entire mess is cleaned up just before mom gets home. The audio narration is clear and each scene is crammed with the kind of crazy furniture and bizarre housewares found in the book.

    I liked this one as I love the Cat in the Hat. The last attraction in this zone is If I Ran The Zoo. This is another play area for the wee ones, here is the internet description:

    Step into wacky habitats filled with bizarre creatures in this fanciful play area inspired by Gerald McGrew and his extraordinary zoo of unusual animals from the farthest reaches. Slide down the tunnels in Zomba-ma-tant, and trap beasts (or siblings) in a watery cage in the wet play area. Catch the elusive Natch in a cave in Kartoom, ride a curious cow with multiple humps, or play a game on the belly of Tic Tac Joe. But beware the Scraggle Foot Mulligatawny—unless you like getting sneezed on.

    The last thing we had to see as a group was Grinchmas, this was the Islands of Adventure Christmas celebration. Here is the internet description:

    Warm Fuzzies With A Side Of Sarcasm

    During the holiday season, Seuss Landing™ is decorated with the holiday charm and cheer of Dr. Seuss's Who-ville. Your heart might grow three sizes as you delight in the hilarious hijinks of The Grinchmas™ Who-liday Spectacular, a live retelling of the classic tale starring the Grinch™, featuring music recorded by Mannheim Steamroller. You’ll even have the opportunity to meet the maven of mischief himself for an autograph.

    This was a live stage show in a sound stage in Seuss Landing, it was fantastic. The entire cast including the Grinch walk around Seuss Landing all day long, the little Who's are so adorable. I could just picture Schmet wearing a Who costume, she would definitely rock it.

    After the show, it was time for cocktails and dinner, then everybody was free to return to the hotel or spend the rest of the night at any of the Universal or Disney parks that they wished to visit. Our last dinner and cocktail hour was held at the Amatista Cookhouse. They had a large selection of beers and wines, and a large menu of mixed drinks. They served salads, steaks, burgers, chickens, Jamaican food, and some decadent desserts like a fudge cake to die for.

    I hope every single one of you enjoyed this road trip as much as I did. And I look forward to seeing all of you on the Spring ROAD TRIP (by Airship) 2020.
  9. Cyrrena Well-Known Member

    That might be a good idea Schmet, focus on Europe in the Spring. I hope lots of people submit ideas.
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  10. Cyrrena Well-Known Member

    Here is a link to the Universal Store Online:

    https://shop.universalorlando.com/?...EeLbFe0uGCIyGS0Vo6iuDLazEp8sVytxoCCQcQAvD_BwE

    Here is a link to the Disney Store Online:

    https://www.shopdisney.com/
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  11. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    Caribbean and on towards Europe the Caribbean are on the way .
  12. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    BRILLIANT! :D

    Thanks! :)

    Uwk
    definitely /saving all the pages... ;->
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  13. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Off-season is definitely the time to "do" Europe, from what I understand; I was there once in the summer (late June, after Midsummer Day, to beyond mid-July [15 countries, 31 days, college student package tour deal; we saw the fireworks display over Old Carcassonne in France for Bastille Day night, which is July 14]), and it was pretty crowded. Winter is probably pretty jumpin', what with Christmas, so spring and autumn might be awesome times. :)

    On the other hand, the Swiss Alps in the summer, even above the treeline, were nice and warm(-ish, as long as the wind wasn't too strong...brrr), and I've always loved a Mediterranean climate... ;->

    Uwk
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  14. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

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  15. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    On the Dr. Seuss stuff: gotta love it! I had some of the old, original books (If I Ran the Zoo, the one with the Circus McGurkus, etc.), but that was when I was a kid and didn't know better about book care... :oops:

    Uwk definitely went on the Caro-Seuss-el! If they didn't allow critters of his height, he activated the Mystic Moppet Billy illusion and apparently shrank down to a level even Schmett could feel comfy around. ;->

    Nothing's gonna stop me from trying out a cool, interactive carousel! :D

    Uwk
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  16. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    "Ah, I yam whats I yam."

    "I'll save you Nell !"

    "Oh Dudley !"

    "Curses !" "Yea Popeye and whose army ?"

    "I don't think Spinach is part of the regular RCMP meals !"

    "Eats it, its goods for ya !"

    ( strange music and fisticuffs laters )

    "Tolds ya."

    "Oh Thank you Dudley !" "Oohh Popeye !"

    "Curses ! Foiled again !"

    "Ouch.."
  17. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    LOL! I had a Champions (superhero pen-n-paper game) character, Olivia Lascar ("lascar" = sailor ;->), who was named for her great-grandma...looked a bit like Lora Croft, superhero-outfit-wise, but her "top" was a neoprene wetsuit sort of thing (with a blue anchor over her heart), since she considered her self a Protector of the Seas, as much as she could from the shore. ;->

    Her main Psych Limitation (you could get more points to spend on your super powers by taking Limitations of various sorts) was that her super strength, stamina, flight capability, etc. got better when she consumed green, leafy vegetables...so her "utility belt" mostly consisted of cans of Swiss chard, kale, spinach, you name it. ;->

    And since she was a major environmentalist (another Psych Lim.), she'd always keep the empty cans to recycle later... :D

    Uwk
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  18. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    Idea for spring trip : we absolutely have to go to the Nether Lands for the tulip blossom time
    and the daffodils and other bulb plants , it's a must see and a must smell .To bad computers today don't also give you the sent of things .
  19. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    For folks who may not know, the Netherlands = Holland. :)

    (granted, folks could probably tell by the tulip reference, but I try to never presume any more... :-/)

    Uwk
    who took an embarrassingly long amount of time to figure out what "the Benelux" countries meant: Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg; all three are really close to each other
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