Taken from: http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html *** Achievements *** - Rogue: A successful double attack no longer provides an additional chance to trigger a proc. Will you be switching to a diff AA line? Honestly I have -no- idea how much double attack poison procs affect dps. Im going to do some extra parsing to try and figure out. oh well
Will have to wait and parse, but overall it will still come out ahead on dual wield. edit: Did some tests vs Perdition Learned the following: 1h + DA vs DW auto attack: 1h + DA wins by 20-25% 1h + DA vs DW proc rate: 45-50% more procs Lunge Reversal goes off a lot more than once every 20 vs grey mobs so taking it out of account, here are my numbers - 1h - Frostwrath DW: Grizzle + Sword of Four Winds Poison: Caustic Poison (422) DPS now: 616 (391 auto attack, 225 proc) DPS dw: 437 (271 auto attack, 166 proc) DPS projected after nerf: 545 (391 auto, 166 proc) Message Edited by Keldoth on 04-21-2006 03:01 AM
It's just a bad joke....... With this change, bruiser will be better DPS and SKs will be very near... It's just amazing how much nerf we had and nothing for the tanks DPS. To do better DPS than tanks we need to sacrifice an item (second hand empty) and bought a lot of poison. Bruiser and SKs are just to do.... Nothing! A lot of good gear and one the RIDICULOUS amount of 2HD+dmg procs in the game. A large amount of stuff, some stupid drop rate on 2HD with a lot of different awesome procs (and low delay).... I love the game, but this F....... tank love from the devs make me sick. Hopefully i have a perma group for quest to appreciate to play with a none tank in this game. Thx SOE, the balance is again ridiculous.
I expected this change to come sooner rather then later.. What Id like to know tho, why is it only rogue's double attack that is getting changed? We arent the only ones having this ability and even tho the combination of double attack+hurricane+haste+inspired makes us huge on AE damage its no excuse to only 'fix' us. I am somewhat glad that i wont go through some 20-30 poisons/raid night, but as we give up all stats on secondary hand those possible 72% better make up for it.
What is the point of this ... Even with wisdom line working as it was, we were still stuck solidly in Tier 2 dps, being clearly outdamaged by those classes that are (and some that aren't) supposed to outdamage us. In other words, we are being nerfed for no reason. If for some reason double attack procs were causing huge imbalance in other classes/gamewide and they decided to nerf it across the board it would be frustrating but understandable. Making it rogue-specific, however, indicates this is not the case and is therefore just ridiculous.
The point is poisons were doing to much damage as it was currenlty implimented. If you didn't see this coming you haven't been paying attention- why were poisons nerfed- they were going off too often. What was happening with double attack? Poisons were going off 2x per autoattack. 1+1=2. Notes only mention rouge aa for this, but lu23 is still young. Message Edited by the fluke on 04-21-2006 07:21 AM
Well the point is that if poisons are the issue, then take away poison procs. But don't take away all our other procs off double attacks. Every other class with double attacks as of now will get to keep proccing off the double attack. That means that we are being nerfed noticeably relative to other classes. Regardless of what devs do in the future, right now we are the only ones getting nerfed. And if their response is simply to nerf double attacks across the board because they can't figure out how to isolate poisons, is that really fair to either other classes or us ... Edit: Keldoth's numbers seem, as always, to be right on. However, his comparison does not take into account (nor can it really) the loss of other procs (item, group buff, etc.) off the double attack which depending could be as significant if not more so than the poison loss. And once again, I feel strongly the devs should not nerf double attack across the board just to fix poison dmg, just make it so we get the same benefits from double attack as everyone else. Nerfing other classes doesn't make me happy or my life any easier. Just seems that in order to make a minor surgical adjustment they just decided to cut off the whole limb instead. Simply forcing everyone to undergo a similar amputation would make this malpractice even worse. Message Edited by dagoo7 on 04-21-2006 07:18 AM
Very upset by this... I wonder if anyone in dev team has actually looked at the numbers to me it was an increase in dps but not huge.. yes more procs and why not you were sacrificing your offhand.. why cant these things be sorted before they go live? I really dislike spending dpk and time on getting a goos one hander to have the line nerfed... in fact I hate nerfing in anycase.. but especially when its nerfing such a small increase.. Mind you I wonder too wethers its due to people saying its gonna be nerfed even before the thought was placed in their heads a sad day for me. I loved the trade off of lower stats for higher dps and the look you got
Poisons are the metric players can use to measure procs. If poisons are going off more than intended, then all procs are. Essentially, swashies were getting a 2x multiplier to their proc rates. Others are as well. IF you think it's that big an issue, feedback the others or make a big stink about it on the testing forums. The point is though, that with all of the recent proc changes, everyone should have known that procs were only intended to have one chance to go off per autoattack round or ca, and only one chance at the delved rate. Thats what all of the proc nerfs were about. When I read through the wisdom line, I figured that the double attacks were meant not as bonus dps, but rather as a way to normalise damage so that dw would not have an advantage over going off hand free. Any thing beyond that was a bonus.
Once again, the fact that, even if just initially, they felt the nerf only had to be applied to rogues, then the developers seem to feel that the double proc rate is not an imbalance gamewide (and we all know there are other classes who currently benefit quite a bit, if not more, from this mechanic). It appears to me that when they introduced the double attack mechanic, they were well aware of the proc aspect (they would have to be idiots not to) and took this into consideration and balanced the various double attack rates accordingly. They just seem not to have anticipated the relatively more significant impact of poisons given their higher proc rate. As such, fix poison aspect but normal procs should not be taken away from us or from other classes. Simply nerfing double attack across the board and claiming this was the issue all along ... I for one won't buy it.
I would prefer that they nerf double attack across the board. I'd blame the procs off double attack to lazy programming. They probably just copy pasted the same code that was used for a normal attack. Even with this nerf though I'd probably stick with Wis Line.
I think wisdom AA line will still be great for dps, and I plan to stick with it. I'm wondering now tho if stamina line would be the better choice for dps... But screw dps i would take wisdom line for the roleplaying aspect of it anyways :smileyvery-happy:
It won't compare dps wise- the sta line dps bonus counts against the 100% dps bonus cap. The wisdom line is just an extra attack.
Supposedly, Double attack and Criticals are also capped at 100% but there are so few effects that modify them that it is difficult for us to reach cap. Unlike %DPS and %Haste which can be easily capped in the right groups. Solo my %DPS and %Haste are 0% and 5%. In raids I am often at 100% 100% especialy with an inquisitor in group.
It is an across the board change so not sure why it was just rogues mentioned in the notes. Although you guys will probably see the biggest change losing the double poison proc. Message Edited by Aeralik on 04-21-2006 09:11 AM
Honestly, I've seen this coming for over a month now, hehe. I'm not too disappointed. Also, I think the issue was less the poison proc and more the Hurricane proc. Hurricane + Inspiration + group of mobs = shredder. Hopefully this gets rid of some of the FotM swashies too
I'd like to know if the double attacks will still be able to proc the built in weapon procs. When using two duel wields with built in procs you are able to proc off the offhand weapon, so technically you should be able to off a double attack. Right?
Are you sure this is the case, as I can see in certain classes where this change is going to be quite controversial and have a much more significant impact on one subclass vs the other (cough ... Brawlers). One of the things that was p...ing me off was the fact that it looked somewhat like they had narrowed this to rogues to cowardly avoid the inevitable conflagration that will erupt in certain more popular classes (cough ... Brawlers) if the change was made across the board.
Its not the nerf who is ridiculous. Its again a nerf against scouts DPS. And soon brawlers and SKs will soon overdamaging us. They are tanks or dps? Why no nerf on theses classes?
