I remember when I tried eq2 before conjurers could offer a bit to groups, still true?

Banditman wrote:

Agreed with this, a good wizard and a good conj .. for a long fight the wizard will take the gold. shorter fights, not much of a chance (if equally stacked buffs / vc's etc).

jay777 wrote:

Umm maybe its you that is in denial

Sure i can justify a elitist attitude...........specifically when i know im right and you are wrong.You actuallly believe since you have played MMOs for many years that no one can tell you any different..........Oh yeah about that denial thing are you catching on yet or is that being to elitist for you?

I've played MMOs for 10 years. Does that make me elitist, or just someone who's played MMOs for 10 years?

lol, lotta ball bustin'

jay777 wrote:

I've tried to be nice and explain things thoroughly, but you just ignore my posts and go back to your talking points without addressing anything im saying and thats insulting. Cause im not saying a damn thing about what you should do, but rather what people in a good guild expect out of a conjuror and how the class is like at a raid level. I say this because you are speaking authoritatively on who should win what based apparently on what feels right to you and not based on how the game actually is like.
This is the truth, if you cant parse competitively compared to a wizard, you will be considered to be a trash conjuror and no one will use in a serious raiding guild. I dont know how many ways to say this, but your value in a raid is going to be dependent solely on this fact. If you can't do this, then grats on your guilds new wizard thats gonna replace you. DPS spots are rare, DPS classes are plentiful, the only utility that matters from mages comes from chanters thus this is how it goes down in any guild with actual standards.
Also for the record, you got it wrong too about who wins in a short fight. If you have an equal conj and wizard and they both have everything up. In a short fight (30-50 seconds or so) the conjuror is going to have the edge. The conjuror has quite a few high reuse abilities that do alot of damage, with a time warped elemental blast doing more damage per button press than pretty much any other spell in the game except VC. However the better recast on the wizard's bread and butter spells like ice comet will enable the wizard to catch up and of course their burst dps is not shabby either. Either way, utility/gear/skill/kindoffight will determine the winner pretty much every time. Not even counting who gets more random disable effects (permanent charms, 1 min long stifle/stun, etc etc theres alot of annoying crap in actual raid fights)

Disable effects definitely give Conjurors an edge over Wizards a lot of the time. If a Wizard is disabled for 1 minute, his DPS is zero. If a Conjuror is disabled, the pet can still attack most of the time and still contribute to the fight.

I will ignore your post in fact I didnt read it at all, like I said soe will not have 2 differant kinds of wizards running around that makes no sense every class has to do differant kinds of dps in differant kinds of way wizards and warlocks are suppose to burst dps, well aoe dot on warlock.

Just like the swashy is dps with utility while the assasin can prob out dps but lacks the utility etc anyways I wont be coming back here so I suggest we drop it.

And just fyi since you guys are not willing to prove it, I already linked it to the wizards, this argument is getting old we need some numbers to end this discussion if im wrong im wrong but it still doesnt make sense to me.

Sorry, but my six years of experience as a Conjuror still says you don't know what you're talking about.

Which makes you biased.

Ok so check it out in your own thread here is the link this is stickied to, somewhat proves what I have been saying.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=171441


Q. Aren't Sorcerers better at damage then us? Why should I choose a second-rate DPS'er?

A. Sometimes, the term "best DPS" gets thrown around with little basis in fact. Sorcerers (and predators) can out damage us sometimes, not all the time. In fights lasting longer then 30 seconds, Conjurors start pulling ahead of the pack in regards to top damage output; every second after 30 pushes us further up the DPS chain since most classes cannot keep up with our overall damage and power regen capabilities.

Clearly it states that conjurers do more dps in longer fights, so again your to freaken biased and you need a reality check.

Thank you for pointing that out. I need to rewrite it. That exact answer was written some 4 years ago, and doesn't exactly relate to the present day state of the game.

jay777 wrote:

Numbers was already stated ...you are still not following or paying attention to what anyone is saying cause parses have already been given.

You did write it but it still proves that is where conjurers are suppose to be they are not suppose to be wizards that is there class design.

jay777 wrote:

Whether the things people are saying or not makes sense to you, its the way it is. You are being a pretty stubborn and ignorant know-it-all brat when experienced players are giving you extremely informative and relative posts that are based on personal experience rather than "what you think makes sense" and your own personal visions of how you view the class. You can't get over yourself and its making you look like a jerk tbh. You're tone is rude and belittling and your assumptions just don't match reality that this game plays out day to day, these days.
These people have helped you more than human nerves should be willing to considering the hissy fits you throw at these people. Take a deep breath...and get ready to accept this. You are wrong on lots of your stances on this thread. These conjs are not in denial, they are not biased, sorry. None of this has anything to do with how fun you have playing the class, this is about how the conj class is portrayed in Eq2 in SF. I play my inquisitor so I can dps and solo stuff...thats not what inqs are made for but I have fun doing it. I'm not deluded into thinking Inqs are expected of anything else but high power healers and I know my preferred style of Inquisitor gameplay will not get me in any good guild on it, etc etc etc. Learn to seperate your opinion/personal preference over some matters of fact about the current game state.

This isn't surprising of you. You made a thread about persistent buffs and did nothing but jump and attack every person who said "sorry dude, but most people in this game are not a fan of rebuffing". You are - cool. But you got all hissy-fitty when you just couldn't possibly believe that your assumptions were wrong. Grow up dude. Now you can get all defensive about this post or think about it for a second and re-examine your assertions your making about this class and the advice given to you about it. Good luck in your adventuring.

Thank you, Dakkota. It's refreshing to see a Wizard back us up.

Jay777, I'll say it one last time. Whether you choose to believe it or not, these are the facts:
Right now, Conjurors are a high-output damage class. If they weren't a high damage class, they would not be wanted in groups or raids for any reason.
The "utility" that Conjurors provide does not justify a slot in a group or raid. It is nice utility, in the form of active and passive buffs (and limited crowd control depending on the content), but it's not enough for someone to say "let's take that Conjuror because of his utility".
Stretching as far back as I can remember (at least before Echoes of Faydwer), Conjurors are capable of very high damage parses. Situationally, they can, and do, top parses. A lot of it does depend on the specific content, group makeup, relative skill levels of all players involved, gear levels, luck, and so on, but at the same time this holds true for everyone.
Right now, Conjurors are capable of pretty high burst damage numbers, something that wasn't as true even as recently as The Shadow Odyssey (Conjurors could still do burst damage, just not near the numbers they can do now). Situationally, they have the highest burst damage in the game right now, given ideal circumstances.

There is no tone with no sound that is simply not true, I do not have an attitude, you all forget one thing, you already have wizards conjurers are a whole differant class yet your all saying that conjurers can do the same dps as wizards in the same ways, I am not in denial but come on common sense should tell you that it does not make sense to make 2 differant classes that can do the same thing and in the same way the only differance is one has pets and buffs pets while pets does the dps for them as they stand back and cast spells as well. While wizards cast it all, if anything it sounds like now wizards have to do extra work since some of the dps comes from pets on conjurers.

Now I guys have shown some numbers I appreciate that, but to be honest I really need to play one to endgame to know for myself, you can call me ignorant, stuborned or whatever you want but never once have I seen 2 differant classes that do the same dps in the same timely manner. And nice try on pointing out that post, I attacked no one until people started saying I was in the minority and many people agreed with me in that post that you guys where making a big deal out of it, and some of us actually enjoy rebuffing it was a simple question if you like I could easily prove it.

Now I admit I did get hostile here I apologize, and maybe a little judgemental but you must understand the confusion here espically with someone who has played many mmos before.

Just fyi next time you decide to try to make me look bad or worse then I have made myself look you might want to actually read the replies and my posts a little more carefully.

jay777 wrote:

Umm they are both mages and they both cast spells.
Besides that similiarity a wizard and conj are totally different.Where do you get that the 2 classes dps the same way...they are nothing alike but you seem to think they are.
Yes they both cast spells and make numbers fly over the monsters head...........definetly doing everything the same it seems.
Wait dont forget about necros and warlocks ...they cast spells also........damm so many classes doing all the same thing.
Play the game for a bit like try them both out .....and get back to us.
Just because you have played MMOs for 10 years or may have stayed at a holiday inn last night doesnt give you the understanding unless you try it out yourself.

You guys are the ones who claimed they did dps in the same speed as wizards, I tried to say you still reach the numbers by doing longer fights but you said it was wrong, I have tried both and wizard dps spells hit harder in less spells, while pet mixing with dd spells does the dps. So as you can see that is why it does not make sense to me.

jay777 wrote:

Yes we can do comparable dps as a wizard ...in completly different fashions......seems to make alot of sense.

Two different classes with two different ways to get the damage out...how the heck is that the same and why would you even view it as the same.
No wonder its not making sense to you cause you are confusing yourself imo.
.

Maybe I am, but all that does is show wizards have a much easier time dpsing then conjurers since they can do it in shorter spells of course there should be differant fashions but both classes should not be able to do the same dps, even though everyone is saying they are it should not be that way, just like how assasins will have big hits while a rangers has many hits that take down the enemy, a ranger will likely do dps in longer fights just like a conj probably should.