Your posts are doing none of that. You are trying to push your own view and adjenda on them. You don't know what they will contain and you're trying to raise a big fit about how they're going to add uber items and abilities to the APs when the devs have said nothing of the sort. You're running around like chicken little crying "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" when you have little or no evidence to support your conclusions. Everyone has the same access to the articles and posts about the APs that you do. Your conspriacy theroy-filled posts are adding nothing to the community knowledge of the APs.
I'm sorry, are you a software engineer? do you know anything about SOEs code or how many people they actually HAVE working on bugs? or even if the "bug fixing shop" is inside the U.S.? No, you don't. Stop telling people they don't get the law of diminishing returns, we DO.. but we ALSO can OBVIOUSLY see that SOE isn't putting "the right number of people on the job" cause they aren't getting some serious issues fixed, and given the WIDE range of things being fixed (and being a software engineer and understanding that it takes dozens of files to make up a module in many cases), they are NOT at that limit (diminishing returns). It's quite simple.. LOTS of these bugs need to be tracked down first, which you CAN put 30 people on (in your example), and maybe 4 or hell, 10 of them all find it at once.. guess what? they move on to a new problem and someone makes the code fix.. but the time it took to find it could be DRASTICALLY reduced since you had so many eyes on it, where as if you say "one bug one person", that person might take days to see what someone else might have noticed in 10 minutes (it happens, trust me, I've seen it a million times at work). Basically, I seriously doubt SOE has a "sufficient" staff working bugs, at least, not by what I would consider it given the scope of bugs we have out there. I'm not even sure I think their bug-fixing team is in the US working on code that they developed, but I get the feeling it's more likely that bug-fixing is outsourced.. that would explain (more redialy than saying they have incompetent morons at SOE) why some bugs make such huge problems when fixed, or how code that should never have been touched got hosed with some bug fixes. I also don't think they have a reasonable "code management system" in place. changes being dropped, unexpected bugs introduced, values going to hell and back, changed in then out then back.. Yeah, it's large scale.. yeah they have lots of people working there, but the "code", I would bet, is being handled by a MUCH SMALLER population.. Some of this stuff is pretty straight forward and the code base shouldn't be that big.. MOST of the companies resources I'd think are in art/story/etc.. some in design, etc.. but the actual people typing in code? probably under 20.. and I doubt any of them are dedicated to fixng bugs, but rather working on exapansions with bug fixes on someone elses plate (or outsourced to Inda)
This is what they did in SWG though... started adding new (bugged) content without fixing the original stuff... battlefields anyone? LOL I was told EQ2 was going to be different than SWG... it's not really. *shrug* I'm not the boss, I only vote with my dollar.
Totally incorrect. First, it's clear that the game works for many more people than it isn't working for. Second, they're not going to acknowledge every single little bug that people find. They can't. It would be a tracking nightmare for them. Third, they have acknowledged that bugs do indeed exist and they ARE fixing them. But, as Valderen said, and the point which you totally missed, you can't just throw more people at a software development problem and get it fixed more quickly. You will very quickly cross the point where adding more people will slow things down. [/QUOTE] HAHA.. first, it IS broken for EVERYONE at certian places.. Armours are getting killed.. ALL armourers that craft, and that effects EVERYONE in the game, and will kill ALL armourers who insist on crafting. Soooo... and that's just one perfect example. Second, THEY aren't finding bugs, WE are, and telling them about it so THEY can find the "broke code".. and YES, they SHOULD acknowledge it so we KNOW it's being looked at (at some point) and we can stop talking about it. Tracking nightmare for them?? are you aware that there are entire software COMPANIES dedicated to making applications that track ALL of that for you? you put in it, hit "next" and someone reads it and says "Joe can work that, assign it to Joe.. -click next-", Joe gets to work and sees the list of 40 things to check.. nightmare? no.. just more proof that you have NO qualifications to be in this discussion. You can share your opinion about charging for adventure packs, expansions, etc all you like, but stay out of the conversation about technical stuff, you are just looking like a fool to all of us in the industry. Third, I've covered Valderen's misconception and shown the flaw in his thought process. Yes, you are correct, there is a limit, but it's apparently not even close to being hit, that or they have way too many problems with this code.. my guess is (as with most of us that have a problem with them working on other projects already with their "developers that know the code"), they are FAR from that limit.. or we'd get more feedback about when things are getting fixed, and we'd see MUCH LESS introduction of new problems with each fix.. what, 6 days and 6 patches?? that's called very sloppy release of code by ANY account..
Even if everything you said were true... my posts wouldn't violate the forums rules and would not get the thread locked. Namecalling DOES violate the forum rules and WILL get the thread locked. I'm not asking you to act like an adult, I'm not even asking you to be nice... I'm asking you to follow the rules so we can continue to agrue without moderator intervention.
You paint with a mighty wide brush there. Armorers getting killed affects everyone? Check again. Yes, that affects ALL armorers, but it doesn't affect EVERYONE. I'm wearing exactly ONE piece of equipment that could have been made by an armorer, and I could easily find an equivalent mob drop to replace it with. Since I'm not a crafter, this affects me even less. So much for your "perfect" example of the game being broken for "everyone". And how do you know who's finding the bugs, Mr. Almighty Pretentious Programmer? YOU DON'T. Sure, the players are finding bugs, but there's absolutely no way for anyone outside of Sony to know how many bugs they find themselves, or how many bugs they know about before some player reports them. You have no way of knowing how many bugs are submitted via /bug, and how many of them are duplicate bug reports. You don't really have a clue as to how EQ2 is structured, how the EQ2 team is structured, and how the EQ2 team does it's work. Basically, you don't have a clue, and you're calling other people clueless. (Edit: fixed the formatting) Message Edited by Buadyen on 01-12-2005 11:58 AM
Buadyen .. First, it DOES effect you cause if you tried to get any player crafted armour, you would have a hard time with it. Just because it's not "currently" something you are contending with doesn't mean it's not effecting you. Not to mention, when the crafters are out hunting instead of crafting because their skills are broke, they are competing with your for kills/loot. The bug 'also' effects you because if you DID want to become an armourer, you would be gated. Just because you don't see it apparently in your day to day running around doesn't mean it's not effecting you, or that it's not a bug for "everyone" just because you aren't currently using said "issue".. the -fact- is, "everyone" has the good chance of dying -if- (being the operative word) they try to make armour.. so, when someone says it's broken for "everyone", they mean just that.. "everyone" that gets to that point will have the bug, not just certian player objects (some people get black screens on griffons -every- time, other never get that... an example of something that doesn't -currently- effect everyone).. For your second part (nice try, but it fails).. I KNOW 'we' are finding bugs (I never said -all- the bugs, or -only we- are finding them) because I've seen MANY threads where someone points out a bug, then a Dev asks for info on how to 'narrow it down' (implying the Dev doesn't know about it or know anyone from SOE that knows about it), then later responses like "ok, I found the problem and it will be fixed in the next patch".. SO, the fact remains that the PLAYERS are finding bugs (and a significant amount of them). You are correct as well, I -don't- know "exactly" how it'd broken down over there.. BUT, SOE has said they have various groups doing various activities.. they SAID in their post that they have "people working in different groups doing things like making the free content, making large expansions, and now a new group that works on adventure zones".. Notice they didn't mention anything about "a bug fixing group"? But, being, as you put it "Mr. Almighty Pretentious Programmer", it's NORMAL for the bugs to be fixed by a DEVELOPER who coded the main module.. But, since the "main group" seems to have been split up now, it's very likely that the Developers working on NEW CODE are also fixing BUGs.. OR, bug fixes could be being handled outside the company in an outsourced context (the first company I worked for my first job was to test an application I never saw.. found lots of bugs, then was told to fix them.. I had nothing to do with the original code, yet I was fixing bugs...) So, the POINT of my stating I was 'Mr. Almighty Pretentious Programmer', as you like to phrase it, was to show that I DO have a clue.. I don't have specifics, you are absolutely correct, but a CLUE I do have.. and an EDUCATED (on the matter at hand, no less) guess/opinion. If SOE wants to bother divulging their numbers of how many bug fixers they have, how many "modules" are being covered, how many files are being tweaked.. then I can say better if I think they are being "reasonable" to the idea of maximizing "fixing bugs", but I can pretty much guarentee we'll never get those numbers.. and I "believe" they are dropping the ball on bug fixes in leu of working on "money making projects".. *shrug* Call me clueless all you like.. doesn't change the -fact- that my -opinion- is they -most likely- aren't doing what -I- would consider making an -conserted- effort Message Edited by Savantster on 01-12-2005 12:21 PM
No, the armorer bug does NOT affect me at all. I don't want to become an armorer, so it doesn't affect me. The additional "competition" from armorers and other crafters out adventuring is irrelevant. If a zone is crowded, it's crowded. If a zone is too crowded, you just go to another instance, or you go someplace else. It doesn't matter if it's crowded because a few crafters are out adventuring, in fact, I highly doubt anyone would notice any changes in zone population due to crafters adventuring insead of crafting. If you never attempt to craft armor, and you never go out searching for player-crafted armor, you will be unaffected by the armorer issues. Since I've never tried to craft armor, and I've never sought out player-crafted armor, the armorer problems do not affect me.
Ah.. I see part of the problem, you can't understand simple logic.. First, "everyone" means equal to all with no discrimination (in this context).. that means, despite YOUR not going to be crafting armour, it WILL kill you IF you do. Your "desire" to or "not gonna do it" is irrelavant, the fact is, 'your toon will die if it crafts armour' means the "bug" effects everyone even if you avoid that activity and don't die from it. The other example I gave that you ignored was, some people NEVER have issues from griffons (not just by avoiding riding them) so that bug seems to only effect those with certian hardware/driver setups (though, in an extreme take on it, one could argue that it effects you too cause someone you are grouped with might have to reboot if they lock up, causing you to be delayed in your adventuring). Also, if all the crafters stop crafting and DO come out, the fact that you "end up switching instances" is still something you do as a side effect of that bug, which .. tada! by definition, directly effects you (i.e. interupts your game play as you zone into different instances trying to find lack of contention). And finally, what kind of [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] doesn't care about certian bugs simply because it pertains to gameplay they don't engage in? The POINT is, SOE is not fixing bugs that effect people (some effect more people, and sometimes in subtle ways) and some of those bugs you just might walk head first into. To advocate not fixing "certian bugs" cause they aren't parts of the game you play with is a perfect example of the lowest form of human being there is.. and to use that lowly state to justify any position looses all merit, sorry.. at least to anyone with a brian and conscience.. k.. done with this discussion with you. The thread is about SOE releasing (or working on) new content without making sure all the bugs are fixed. If your head is so far up your **** that you can't see there are tons of bugs and issues, then there's no longer point in talking to you
Buadyen is right. This problem wont affect him. He also wont have to buy the Pay-per-sones... why? Because he's a casual gamer. He doesn't understand what those of us in the high end game go through to be a part of the high end game. He doesn't understand that, if there is a single item in that entire Pay-Per-zone that has one extra Agi point... high end players will be REQUIRED to buy that expansion. We can't group with the people we group with or join the guilds we join without it. Last time I checked I was ranked 11th in my class on my server. I play to compete with other high end players... if all you have to do to out rank me is throw money at SOE, the kind of gameplay I enjoy will be destroyed. The casual game play that Buadyen enjoys is not something that I'd find interesting. The only way I can not purchase these zones is to become a casual player... something that I am not. And so, therefore, I am required to buy them.
Wow from what i have read here it seems you all have completely ignored the EQ1 standard....so its a new zone with new abilities and items..before i ever reached or bought PoP I had gear from PoP zones, and with never having seen the mobs I had the spells. Have yet to see a no drop spell here, and while quest gear is no drop, found items are not. So you dont wanna buy in? Dont. Its that simple. Its not a rip off at all on SOE's part. Heck you go find me any other hobby out there that costs less than 30$ a month (which is what i pay for service AND broadband) and I will smile at ya when I drive past. At the cost of this game per month its the cheapest form of intertainment there is. Shame on all you nay saying spammers. Nothing in life is free, and if it is you should look for the hidden cost =P
You couldn't be more wrong. Casual gamer? I think not. I may not be "uber" like you, but I'm not casual. It's people like you that make me glad I'm not part of the bleeding edge high end game. I'll let you guys find all the bugs so that by the time I get to that content, it's fixed and works correctly. You're ranked 11th in your class on your server? Big deal. I'm ranked 20th on the "highest melee hit" for my server. I was the 26th assassin on my server to hit level 35 (out of 334.) Not uber high end, but definintely not casual. Anyone that played EQLive and that has half a clue knows that these rankings are really meaningless. They're fun to look at, but that's it. Any guild that uses the rankings for invitations or anything is a sad, sad guild that I'm proud to not be a part of. One extra AGI point? Pathetic argument, but that's to be expected of you. Like the eq2players rankings, any guild that refuses me membership or any group that kicks me out because of that ONE EXTRA POINT is a sad, sad guild or group that I'm proud to not be a part of. Nevermind that the APs likely aren't going to add new levels, so your level ranking won't be directly impacted. If you hit 50 before it's released, then you'll still be "uber eleventh" after it's released. If you're not, you're not suddenly going to find tons of players "passing you up" as a result of the AP. They likely aren't going to add any new super-powered weapons or spells/arts, so your rankings there won't be affected either. The top end rankings are likely to not change much as a result of the APs. (And since there is no "DPS output" ranking, a new unlinked spell/art won't affect them, either.) Ok, so your "discoveries" ranking will suffer if you don't have the APs, but who cares? An item can only be discovered once anyway, so you're going to lose out when you go to sleep, or work, etc. So you won't have as many quests to complete? That won't show up on the rankings, either. All people will see is a number, but they won't be able to tell why that humber is high or low. The quest ranking probably isn't important to the "uber" people like you, anyway, since you won't be bothered to take the time to do "non-essential" or "pain in the butt" quests. So, do you have a point yet, Pain Divine? Oops, I'm sorry, you ARE correct about one thing. I won't have to buy the Adventure Packs, because Sony has already said that I will get access to them for free! You see, my account is on the All Access Pass. I upgraded it back when Planetside was released. I also play my EQLive account on a regular basis, and have played EQOA, all of which are on the Access Pass. When EQ2 came out, it was almost a no-brainer to play it over other games since it wouldn't cost me any extra per month.
Sounds like a good mini expansion. I just wished EQ2 was easier for casual players. Seems too geared for the 7+ hour a day youth crowd.
If you're right, I'll be wrong. But I'll also be happy. The precedents set by every expansion in EQ1 tell me that SOE will introduce unbalancing elements with every EP/AP they release. This includes items, and in EQ2's case, abilities/arts/spells. It is their standard modus operandi.
Every expansion? Legacy of Ykesha? The most unbalancing thing that comes to mind about LoY is the extremely..... floppy... troll NPC models. Even LDoN wasn't that bad, it was a larger boon to the people that weren't already in the higher end zones than it was to the people that were already in PoTime. If you were willing to accept that there were zones you couldn't get in, then you could likely have gotten along quite well without LDoN.
If you guys are so worried about these abilities and items, why don't you just do what 90% of you usually will do if you want the item. Buy it from the broker. Oh, all the number throwing and opinion bashing doesn't really change a thing. The most effective way to combat these module expansion you don't like is to not buy it. Not speculate and whine. If SoE feels that the time invested doesn't equal money earned, then they will simply stop the practice. Also, 30 people whining on the forums isn't going to change their minds. If only 50k people decide to purchase these module expansions then you may see a shift in their modus operandi. Oh and if you are worried about the 5$, stop posting and go recycle some cans. You'll be sure to make 5$ before the first module comes out. Words of the day: Modus Operandi. Edit:. Post seemed rude, so I added a smily. Message Edited by Dyvanos on 01-13-2005 12:19 PM
Did anybody here pay attention in high school biology or even take it...i know some of you did and some of you in hear got it. But you can only have so many people working on one project at one time or it becomes a money sink when you have 30 people on a project team and only 20 doing work. At a point you reach a certain efficiency then it levels off. By using 10 Employees to fix bugs i am severely understaffed and unable to operate at peak efficiency. But by brining in an additional 50 employees I have excess employees who are not needed and most likely bringing down my profits. By finding that peak operating efficiency i am able to maximize customer satisfaction and profits, unfortunately i don't believe SOE has found this PEAK efficiency and may be making more or less money but also brining down customer satisfaction. Although from my hockey Refereeing experience i found it is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone, someone will always be complaining even when SOE is able to operate at peak efficiency and have more than enough customers satisfied (dont know how long this will take or if it will ever) then maybe we will start to see some "great ground breaking new features". Maybe instead of constantly complaining and moaning about petty little things, yes their are things that seriously affect game play like the amorer bug which was finally fixed today, we could all just take a deep breath and a step back and relax. Companies need customers willing to buy their products in order to make a profit, if SOE were making no attempts to fix their problems they wouldnt have any customers and WoW and other MMORPGS would be overflowing with people all looking for the most desireable product for them to enjoy. By whining Splitpaw was opened and yes I'm sure people are loving their new found "non laggyness and " but by whining incessantly we divert even more of SOE's attention away from fixing minute bugs and such. Bugs affecting many players games would be placed on higher priority than say a bug that doesnt allow a food item to be properly used or has extended/shortened durations etc. A single well organized thought out post backed with SOLID evidence would be or at least should be more effective than 50,000 posts on why the recipe for making a tin stud for example is bugged (not saying it is). Tell SOE the reason in a good quality post why it really needs to be fixed and most likely they'll fix it. ok my rant/rave whatever you want to call it is over... have fun flaming it if you insist on it.
Every one has already tried them out and tested them front and back I take it? Or just opinion based on what you're hearing from the boards with no experience in the matter whatsoever? Complaint #1) Sony is using company resources that could be used to fix the game, blahblah whine whine. WRONG! They already stated when they announced the stupid things that they had seperate teams working on expansions, TWO seperate teams in fact. The rest of the team that fixes bugs and adds live content is completely seperate. They're not taking anything away. Complaint #1) You have to buy the expansion for new powers. First of all, it said "new items and abilities", which could mean they are adding more effects to items like the ones that started dropping after the big patch. They didn't say player abilities, and even if they are so what? They could be part of a new quest, similar to the catalog ability. Stop flying off the handle and bashing something before it even exists. We'll have enough of that once someone has actually tried the new feature. Do people really have to complain about something so badly that when there isn't anything to complain about they invent it?!
While i completely agree with you. Ill play devils advocate.... What would the whiners then have to whine about?
No worries there the whiners always find something to whine about. Most of the time what they whine about only exists in their own heads to begin with so I doubt they wouldn't have much trouble dreaming up something.
