You know what is good in liberal market ? You don't have to pay for things ou don't want. You don't need EQ2 to live, SOE won't put a gun on your head and ask you to pay, and more than that, there are dozens of other MMORPG around, so stop complaining and whining about expansions. You feel like the game is broken? Leave and find another better game. You feel like paying for more content isn't fair ? Leave EQ2 and go play somewhere else. That's AS SIMPLE AS THAT and that's the most effective way to let SOE you don't agree with what they are doing. Now if you feel like you'll buy the add on and think it's a shame, take 2 minutes to think about yourself or go visit your psychologist...
You don't know what you're talking about. It certainly won't be "required" for completing existing content. They're not suddenly going to change existing quests so that they go through the adventure pack zone. I get the impression that these adventure packs are along the scope of the EQLive Legacy of Ykesha expansion (well, they would actually have a smaller scope.) It added new items and abilities, but it was hardly a "required" purchase for EQLive players. Even now, there are likely large numbers of EQLive players that are missing some of the abilities added by LoY, and they are getting along fine with out them.
I suppose that's a valid question, so let's use a different field to clearly explain what's happening... You have a problem with your car...so you bring it to the dealer to get it fixed. The dealer puts one mechanic on it. Takes 1 hour to find and fix the problem. Maybe he could have put 2 and fix it in 30. But would putting 30 on it fix it in 2 minutes? No, would probably do just the opposite and take longer because they would constantly be stepping on each other's toes. So for the dealer it's better to have maybe 30 mechanics working on 30 cars then it is to have 30 working on 1 car...for one thing...overall people get better service, it's also overall cheaper...if you had 30 people work on your car...I'm sure the bill would be much bigger. This is how it is for SoE and EQ 2. We probably get better service for cheaper this way...then if they put everyone on the same thing.
Unfortunately it's not been 30min... or an hour... it's been 3 months. And they still haven't even admitted there's a problem. I'm standing in the parking lot of the dealership with my car thats not running, there's 100 other people behind me that have cars with the exact same problem. I ask the dealer "Can you fix my car?" and he replys "Our mechanics have come up with a new in-car navigation system" and I say "But my car doesn't work, are you even aware of all these people out here?" and then you're standing there going "You don't have to buy the navigation system, stop complaining!"
Unfortunately it's not been 30min... or an hour... it's been 3 months. And they still haven't even admitted there's a problem. I'm standing in the parking lot of the dealership with my car thats not running, there's 100 other people behind me that have cars with the exact same problem. I ask the dealer "Can you fix my car?" and he replys "Our mechanics have come up with a new in-car navigation system" and I say "But my car doesn't work, are you even aware of all these people out here?" and then you're standing there going "You don't have to buy the navigation system, stop complaining!" [/QUOTE] Totally incorrect. First, it's clear that the game works for many more people than it isn't working for. Second, they're not going to acknowledge every single little bug that people find. They can't. It would be a tracking nightmare for them. Third, they have acknowledged that bugs do indeed exist and they ARE fixing them. But, as Valderen said, and the point which you totally missed, you can't just throw more people at a software development problem and get it fixed more quickly. You will very quickly cross the point where adding more people will slow things down.
Bottom line is it will b released like that. The supposed "alot" of players that arent happy with this, sorry i missed the official poll on that one. Although i did see maybe 17-18 complaints in the forums, if that constitutes alot over the total EQ2 subscription numbers then im not sure what to say. But anyway, if you dont like the idea then just leave now. Dont whine and complain, its going to happen this way whether you whine about it or not. Why not quit playing and whining about this video game and send your subscription fee to the victims of the tsunami. But again, if you dont like it, bye bye. Will make release day for the APs alot smoother if you all leave now.
John Smedly wrote: "Adventure Packs are a new style of content that we are introducing to EverQuest II. You can think of them as being similar to "Modules" from traditional tabletop RPGs." (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=news_announcements&message.id=90) Moorgard wrote: "Adventure Packs are based around a simple idea: all subscribers are presented with an introduction to the storyline and can download a new zone at no additional cost. For five bucks you can download the rest of the content and explore the full story, receive additional zones, boss fights, access to new items and abilities, etc." I played D&D and AD&D for years. Modules contained treasure, artifacts, unique monsters, and challenging puzzles and quests. As a side note, curiously, I don't remember any quests that had me go out and kill 200 of a particular type of monster. But I never played or heard of a module that gave players new spells or special abilities that weren't available to all players in all areas as part of the core game set of rules. And yes, EQ2 != D&D. But there was a reason this was not done. And that reason is just as valid for any RPG today. I can handle it if SOE wants to bring in some extra money with extra content - what company doesn't like making money? I can deal with Joe Adventurer getting to kill some boss mob I never see, because he paid a price to get in and see him. I could accept but would not be overjoyed to learn that there were unique items in the adventure packs that couldn't be looted elsewhere, especially if they were greater in power or value that all weapons available in the standard content. Different is fine. Better is not. However, if the above statement from Moorgard turns out to be accurate - that in fact players who pay for extra content get extra abilities such as spells, special attacks, bonus stats, etc. - and if those abilities persist outside of the new adventure areas where I will have to compete with these players and their new skills for group spots, guild and server ranking, etc., well, that'll be the day I hang up my shield and wait for something else. And no, you can't have my stuff. My guildies can, if any are left at that point. I really hope he mis-spoke, or at least those abilities are only usable in the pay-to-play zone where it is awarded. Anything else is a slap in the face and definitely not "optional" content. - RP
Ahh, but you're assuming that the new skills will all be extremely useful and game breaking. My guess is you'll get something like the level 20 fluff spells. I get to make someone flustered...but only if they're in my group and lower level than me...whee. Why not take a wait and see approach? You know, instead of giving yourself a stroke when you don't know if it's actually something you should freak out about?
Why do you think we are complaining? For our health? We're complaining in the hopes that SOE will read this stuff and think "Oh crap, people are going to leave if we but that 'Mega Ice Death' spell in the pay zone... maybe we should put fluff spells in..." We are complaining because we don't want to quit... we are letting SOE know where the line in the sand is. I'm very upset that theses zones exist at all... but if they actually contain useful items or skills I'm gone... and I'll never buy a Sony product again... From ANY division. It's not that I can't afford it... it's not the $5... It's that it's wrong. They are raising the price of our subscriptions through subterfuge. If they want to charge $22/month for EQ2 they should just do it. I'd prolly even pay it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to be "tricked" into it. Have no dobt, SOE's only goal in all of this is to convert the majority of their subscribers to All Access Passes.
kegamen wrote: "Ahh, but you're assuming that the new skills will all be extremely useful and game breaking. My guess is you'll get something like the level 20 fluff spells." Good point. If new spells or abilities are fluff, mostly useless outside the zone, or just new names with different graphics on top of basically the same damage / buffs / debuffs / taunts / etc., then it wouldn't be a huge deal. Whereas you guess it will be fluff, and I was guessing something uber, it may well be something in the middle. What I was (am) worried about, is that there's a quest in a pay-to-play zone that rewards you with +10 STR, or gives you a new training-type ability, or raises your Defense or other stat permanently, or gives a spell that is the same as an existing spell but not on the same reuse timer effectively allowing you to cast it twice as often, or gives a spell that is mostly the same as the main game spell but that is noticeably better / faster / longer-lasting / less-power-using / uninterruptable / etc. Guess we'll see. Message Edited by RandomPlayer on 01-12-2005 10:38 AM
Well, another example of people that don't know how to read spouting off with their opinions that can't amount to much since they don't know what they are talking about.. SOE said there will be THREE kinds of "content".. 'free' live updates like the 2 new (broke) areas they put in with the 1/6 patch.. '$5 zones that have (e.g.) one free level, the rest of the "dungeon" you pay for', and 'TRADITIONAL EXPANSIONS', which are the ones you go pay $20 - $30 for.. the ones that are, like in EQ-1, WHOLE continents with updated graphics engines, or new races, or no-drop/no-trade items that you can only get in THAT EXPANSION.. Yeah, having the mini-expansions (good analogy) is a nice thing.. But, the "live content (free stuff)" will always be 'second rate and after-thought' stuff cause it doesn't get any money in. Even the mini-expansions won't be all that good since the "big expansions" will generate 4 - 6 TIMES as much money and will get more attention.. Some people have very real conserns about 'the future of MMOs'.. the problem is, they are following a precident set by Microsoft and Bill Gates, yet most people don't know that. Releasing products with stubbed out code just so it can get sold, then "patch" it later? sell things that aren't "finished products" just to charge to finish them later? Totally different way of doing business in the world than ever before, yet MOST people using computers today are "new" to computing and manage to fear the technology and don't understand it, so they swallow the crap given to them by Bill and others like him. Don't get me wrong, I understand that bugs will come up and it's fantastic that we have the internet and a way to get patches to fix things, but the TREND is changing to release BROKE CODE on purpose, to get money comming in sooner, -because- it can be patched later. The idea of patching to 'fix' is changing to 'patch to finish'.. The mor and more companies are allowed to "suck money out of people in new ways", the worse it will get. EQ-1 has 7 expansions? in 6 years? and now they have another comming out? at $20 a pop? full of "items that you need to compete or get in groups", and since you have to pay for them, if you don't, your gaming expierence ended a LONG time ago.. basically, they are expanding the world since they can't expand gameplay (kind of a nessicary evil in MMOs I suppose) and you "keep buying the game over and over".. if you bought all the expansions for EQ-1, and the game, AND monthly fees for the year, you are spending near $200 per year on their game.. per person.. so stop saying "it's only $5, sheesh", no... it's significant money spent every year on a game, MUCH more than going and spending $50 on something like Civilization III that is technically a new game each time you start, AND has multiplayer capacity and FREE ways to find other people looking to play.. Anyway, the point is (rightly so), there are WAY too many bugs in this current itteration of the game. They need to be fixed, and SHOULD be fixed BEFORE resources are diverted to 'new content', but that's not "financially maximizing action".. Personally, I don't care if the Board Members only get $12 million each this year instead of $14 mill, I want a game that works and doesn't cause me to go "hmm.. na, why craft today.. it's still bugged and will just frustrate me". If you don't mind broke code, unbalanced combat systems, mysterous XP distrobution, broke skills, bugged quests, then great.. **** and go play your game.. leave the work of trying to institute change for the better (and for YOUR increased enjoyment as well) to us that care enough to do it
Put down and step away from the crack pipe. "Raising the price of our subscriptions through subterfuge"? You're daft. If all of the APs are $5, it will barely make a dent in what you pay per month. Even if they later ones cost more, since they're only releasing 2 to 4 a year, it won't make that big a difference. And, if you already have the All Access Pass , the APs will cost you nothing additional per month. Message Edited by Buadyen on 01-12-2005 10:58 AM
BAH! I played AD&D on Pen and Paper too. You ALSO don't spend $15/mo to play, you can play anyplace you like, have unlimited numbers of chars, and do NOT have to buy modules to continue (you simply use the rule books to build.. YOUR OWN ADVENTURE.. ) Problem is, it's NOT the same concept here. The concept here is DIFFERENT cause you -have- to play on their servers, you have -limited- chars, you are forced to swallow their nerfs at their whims, you PAY MONTHLY for this privalege, and NOW they want ANOTHER $30 - $50 per year ON TOP of the ~$180/year you pay to play.. Another problem a lot of you seem to have is, either you didn't play EQ1 or have short memories.. When they broughut out expansions (granted, not the mini-ones, but) you DO become MORE POWERFUL if you have that gear, that's why LOTS of the stuff was NO DROP and NO TRADE and LORE, duh. There is NO reason to believe, based on Moorguard's revision of the original statement, that the "mini-expansions" won't have some "real" bennifit to them, otherwise no one would buy them, duh..
Again, you are MISSING the point.. no one is "overly" concerned about the packs (even though this thread seems to have digressed into a pro-con discussion).. the PROBLEM is they are MORE concerned with cranking out "buggy content" than fixing the "current broke-arsed game".. that's a serious concern. The OTHER concern is, some people keep thinking the adventure packs will offer no 'real' bennifit, just be more places to slash stuff, but the TRACK RECORD is, they WILL offer bennifit to those that PAY, which means 'rich people have an in-game advantage'.. rich is a subjective term, but there are plenty of people that budget out their monthly fee to play and have precious little left. If it's your contention that "those people don't deserve to play cause they can't afford it", then you have no business breathing my air. To say the extra $30 - $50 a year is ok even if those poor folks can't scrape that up in addition to all their other bills, and their toons not being as "good" as yours is fine since they can't afford it, is to say you don't care about anyone but yourself.. and that you don't care about the "game" from a "lets all have fun" perspective, and I therefore discount any thoughts you have (and again request that you stop breathing my air).. it will never cease to amaze me how many people only care about themselves and can only see one tiny-minded side of things. nor will it ever cease to amaze me how many people think it's reasonable to have the all-mighty dollar dictate every action we take. pathetic
Please people, everyone stop the name calling. I really would like as many people as possible to know about the Pay-per-zones and what they will contain. If you continue to post personal attacks SOE will pay the issue no attention and lock the thread. You can disagree with someone without calling them stupid.
Benefits? The APs can have plenty of benefits without introducing new "game breaking" items or abilities. They will give new zones to adventure in, new things to kill. For those that like lore/story and for the quest fiends amonst us, there will be new quests to do.
