Axterix wrote: Weaponsmiths already make the throwing weapons that woodworkers make, axes, shuriken, and knives.
Odys@Storms wrote: been there done that am glad they changed makeshift arrow to a buff so that we coudl do even worse dps then the CRAPPY dps we have now. FIX OUR RANGED CAs and gives us RANGED AUTOATTACK and FLURRY. we are told they want us at range then Let us T1 dps at ranged instead of CRAPPY dps at melee.
I m not against top arrows summoning, but then you will face WW anger. With summoned arrows almost as good as player made ones you will be able to do heroic and solo content with summoned arrows without too much loss in dps. For sure you will still be free to maximize your damage and pay or craft for it. For raids your guild woodworkers are supposed to cover you, like alchmist cover the potion use and so on. The advantage of my proposal is that it can be applied without dealing with woodworkers market, it may be not ideal but it can be done immediatly.
If they want to go the summoned arrows way, then they need to be the best available arrows, period. Seeing as they were unwilling to do this only a few months ago and instead made raid arrows and turned the old arrow summoning spell into a proc buff I doubt they will be willing to do it now. The fact that classes that use throwing have the option of obtaining ammo summoning items is just insulting when no such option exists for rangers. Again, if we have to pay for our basic DPS then we should be the best, bar none.
Odys@Storms wrote: You know, some food for thought. Every time this comes up, in every thread I have read that's made about ranger arrow expenditures, I have never once seen a woodworker come in and be up in arms about the idea. Not. Once. On the contrary, I have seen a number of woodworkers outright state that they would not care, or would even welcome the change, because they do not actually make any real money from selling so many arrows (since usually arrows are sold at cost). Let me repeat that. Every thread I have ever read on this topic, which must be numbering in the hundreds by now, over the space of many years (this is a very common complaint), has never once had an actual woodworker show up and get pissed about the idea of not having to supply rangers with hundreds and thousands of arrows a week. Can we please, until someone actually does show up and get angry about this, stop assuming that there will be a great thunderous rage from the woodworkers? We have a woodworker right in this thread repeatedly saying she wouldn't care if this change was made (granted, she also plays a ranger.) That said, I can tell you exactly what would happen if they gave us the ability to make crappy arrows again. No one would use them. Those that did use them would be barred from groups in favor of those that did. This is like saying that all scouts have an option not to use poisons. Sure, scouts can choose NOT to use poisons...but that's choosing to play your class at less than peak efficiency, and you can bet once someone realizes you're running without poisons because you're too cheap to buy them, you're not going to b welcome in groups with that person again. This is exactly why they changed Makeshift Arrows, absolutely no one except for lower level rangers that were soloing were ever ever making use of the ability to summon inferior arrows. I mean, think about it. Rangers are already supremely hurting in damage output in comparison to every other DPS class. Rangers, right now, have huge problems getting groups outside of their circle of friends, even when using the best arrows available to them. Why? Because all a ranger can bring to a group is damage, and every decently geared and played assassin, warlock, wizard, swashy and sometimes brigand brings more utility to the group and MORE damage. And not insignificant amounts of damage either. In many cases much MUCH more damage. If the ranger is undergeared or trying to group with raid equipped classes, even the tanks and sometimes the HEALERS have the capability to do more DPS than they do. Rangers can't compete for group slots now, giving them free but crappy arrows will not help the situation one bit. Bottom line, it's an unbalanced design decision that should never have been made at the very beginning of the game. It's a bad thing to put into an MMO, where class balance is generally the largest issue developers face. It should never have been in EQ2. It should never have been in EQ1. (Incidentally, I'm told WoW is giving their hunters what amounts to an endless quiver with the next expansion. Couldn't tell you if that's accurate, but it's what I've heard). It's a holdover from single player RPGs such as Baldur's Gate (incidentally, Baldur's Gate 2 had at least two bows, if I remember right, that did not need ammunition, so even THEN the idea of not having consumable ammunition was floating around). It's not the worst issue rangers face, but it's just one more thing that really needs adjusting.
your a Ranger. paying for your arows is part of the class. hell EQ1 rangers didn't get thier 'endless quiver' until what? Luclin?and then it was like an endline skill, you had to practically have gotten every single other AA before you were able to get the Endless Quiver. Granted, you could use a boost to your damage so that Assassins and Wizards aren't trouncing you so badly. they could make it so the bulk of your damage comes from your ranged CAs adn auto rather then running around in melee and then range. and you prolly have an eaiser time getting that kind of fix then facing them trying to destroy another TS class like they've done with armorers/weaponsmiths/tailors.
Rainmare@Oasis wrote: I didn't play EQ in the end years, but I did play it for the first 4-5 years. I played a ranger. As I recall, rangers got fletching as a secondary skill automatically. Quivers should be made endless. You could have varying degrees of arrows even with this. ie: handcrafted field point quiver, handcrafted bodkin quiver, mastercrafted field point quiver, legendary bodkin quiver, fabled quiver of fiery arrows of death. Allow woodworkers to make the quivers. Tailors have enough stuff to make as is. While you are at this, why not take a look at why ranged weapons do less auto attack dps than melee weapons do auto attack dps. Let's also take a look at why ranger combat arts are not comparable in damage to assassin combat arts. It was said almost a month before sf that rangers would be looked at and adjusted. How many months have gone by and nothing... It would be different if every month there was an update and classes were balanced in these monthly updates (that is the way it worked for several years). Now we go 4 months at a time between updates and there are no class balances that happen. I think we are currently 3.5 months out from the next chance at getting 'adjusted'. Do the devs not know why there are 4x as many level 90 shadowknights as there are rangers?
Rainmare@Oasis wrote: See above post. This would not destroy Woodworkers, and even if that were the case, it is completely ridiculous that one single class should be supporting an entire tradeskill. The solution to that is fixing woodworkers as well, not forcing one class to pay upwards of two plat A NIGHT just to keep woodworkers afloat. You could say that sucking at DPS is also part of the class. That doesn't make it a good part of the class. Back when coercers used thoughtstones for a certain part of their essential spells, I'm sure people argued that was 'part of the class' too. Name me one coercer who was sad when that particular 'feature' was patched out. Being 'part of the class' doesn't automatically make it balanced or desired. It is neither.
Was a poor design to begin with when they made rangers the sole supporter of woodworkers. How about sages make an item that is needed for every spell a mage can cast. Sound like a good idea? That's where we're at.
Oh wonderful, the four page thread from General ends up here too, after several days. Seriously, it's hard to take thread moving as insulting but seriously.
I'm curious how these two threads don't belong in a general forum. Putting them in here is like throwing them in the garbage. Kiara obviously has carte blanche and uses it for what she wants. If you think about it, this team has the dream job. Not because they make video games but, because they're the only non government company in america that can take a dump on customers and get away with it. I work with client's everyday and only wish I could come close to getting away with what these guys do.
akaglty wrote: What's funny is there's a Summoner's pet "hey we're broken post" that has been allowed to sit there since 5/27.
Well could always spin every thread in public forums to ranger issues lol. We got a lot of them so wouldn't be that hard really. And before someone says some 'catch more flies with honey' bull we did that months ago with squat to show for it. So if we are going to be ignored we might as well do it on our terms.
Neiloch@Crushbone wrote: +1. I am done being nice. I am just going to be an a%^ on the forums from now on and derail every thread I can to ranger issue thread
It's totally unfair that rangers have to pay for arrows. How were they supposed to know when they created the class that they'd be using arrows?
Whats funny is because of their fubar'd design people making rangers probably wouldn't realize how much they TRULY have to use arrows until like 30-40. Wait that's not funny. But with your logic if say summoners had to pay for every spell cast and other mages didn't, it would be fair and proper if that's just how its always been? 'just because' is NEVER a good enough reasons to justify ANYTHING.
Nevao wrote: Nope I got that thread moved through the "report" feature. I am going to report every class specific thread in that forum right after I de-rail it with a ranger rant. Go go ranger a%^
Ranja wrote: On an interesting side note they deleted all our comments about how it looked really bad to mod us but not someone else. But that's a derailing... Back to Endless Quiver. I have no problem paying for arrows. I view paying for arrows to be the "cost" for being able to hit at the range we can. I'm much more concerned about the relative damage values, and the min range than I am on the cost. Especially with the Conservation AA and Mythical Buff cutting down how much we have to consume on both sides.
