Disappointed

Why do you think there is a problem with my post? This game was never all about hard core raiders...but they are the loudest and most vocal so it appears they get the most attention or the least depending on how you see it. The average player just wants to enjoy the game......there is nothing average about eating sleeping breathing raid .... not that there is anything wrong with being a hard core raider because there isn't.....however raiders are not the majority despite what they think....raiders get raid content every xpansion....all other content like quests, heroic zones, solo zones, etc should not be designed with just raiders in mind. ... that's my opinion..... and for the record I do raid but no longer raid on what I term to be a hard core.

No it wasn't.

That you even think that, shows how out of touch you really are. When EQ2 came out it had a lot of archaic things like XP debt in it left over from the days of Meridian 59, Ultima Online, EQ and Asheron's Call.

And while EQ2 did have most content centered around group play, it was for the most part laughable tank and spank easy on release.

For all of the non raid content you could take any tank + any healer + any other 4 classes to be successful, as long as those 4 people playing the other classes pushed random buttons you'd usually end up with a win on release.

Something you can no longer do without getting stomped in most instances and it has been that way for years now.

Heroic content really started to get complex in TSO and has been more aligned towards the quote better players unquote since then.

Yes it was. You didn't just tank and spank and run into each room and pull like you do now. Not at all. There wasn't much scripting, certainly. It wasn't as simple as pull the mob and win though. Death carried a penalty, so people avoided it at all costs. Only the best players made it to the bottom of Sol Eye. Guess that tank and spanking was too hard for many players, because most people didn't have on any of the playercrafted fabled (the original forms like rubicite), let alone things like Flowing Black Silk Sash (quested).

Overland zones required you to be great at soloing or group. Compare that to today's mindless overland mobs. You can pull an entire island in PS/TS and not worry about dying. You most certainly couldn't do that in the early game.

People were afk mercenary camping named. While mercenaries didn't exist back then, I guarantee you cannot claim anyone was afk pet killing or anything similar back in the early days. Named would destroy you when you were actively trying to win, let alone afk with a pet.

Instances back in the day were incredibly hardcore. Most you couldn't even revive in, so you knew to only bring competent players as a fail meant you were waiting 18 hours. If early EQ2 wasn't what you consider hardcore, I think that's because you've somehow shifted "hardcore" to mean something different to you. EQ2 was as hardcore as a modern MMO gets. (That is to say, it wasn't Ultima or EQ1.)

As for your "tank+heal+4 others" yes you can. Again, we clear content with a scout tanking. If that's not the definition of a any-setup-will-do design, then what is?

Heroic content in TSO was geared toward people like me, aye. SF was tank and spank for the most part. DoV had more of a half and half mix. CoE was the most casual friendly expansion EQ2 has ever seen. We cleared entire raid zones with 1 group WHILE current. Bad design. ToV put scripting back in, but outside of Nexus and VD it was very simplistic. Pre-nerf AoM had it just right, but now most of it is tank and spank. You can 100% ignore scripts outside of T3 zones.

No, I do not want them overtuned. That only forces people to exploit in order to clear zones. Obviously that would be bad design.
In the original state (with the rare few exceptions I've mentioned) the AoM heroics were just fine. They were nerfed FACTUALLY because people complained that they shouldn't be bothered to read detriments, emotes, or their abilities.

They ...shouldn't....be....bothered...to....read.

Just sit back and process that. This is a Roleplaying Game. An RPG. People hold no expectation that they should have to read in this particular RPG despite all RPGs requiring that. It boggles my mind that the devs cater to this mentality. If you don't want to play an RPG....then don't. Do not come into an RPG and demand it be made mindless for your amusement. I picture most of you people go into a steak-specialization restaurant and demanding you be served a burrito. If you don't get the burrito you then call management and the corporate office.

You people are ridiculous.

@The_Cheeseman

I think your off in your analogy, this changes to most of the zone have been geared to the below average people in class and not the average kid. Admittedly the really dumb player still can't get past the last guy in Bilgwaters, or even step into temple, but its be dumb down so far that any group with 2 healers and 10 million group dps can do Highhold which use to be only available to those able to put out 15-20 million DPS and 2 healers that could combine heal for nearly a 1M HPS.. I have been in there with 1 healer and a high DPS group and completely 100% ignored the Mechanics of the last fight. (we don't pull any cords just straight dps & hps)

As long as the tank and healer knew what they were doing getting to the bottom of Sol Eye wasn't hard. Nor was Nek Castle or Ruins of Varsoon. Our entire guild had screaming mace, flowing black silk sash and the other heritage items that were actually uber back then. But all that content = the tank out living the incoming damage. stifles charms stuns power-drains etcetera where the exception, not the norm.

We aren't discussing overland. I also hate what they have done to overland but that has nothing to do with this thread.

Once again overland, and they weren't (aren't) doing it with the revamped ToV named thats for sure. I think it was a mistake adding the yellow and blue gems to the AoM named and also think it was a mistake making them part of a ferrin quest. They should have had nice 96+ legendary loot from day one, been hard as hell (but still doable for a talented player) to solo and had a higher chance to drop a fabled or master than normal overland trash.

You'll have to remind me which instances you couldn't revive in... I've been in all of the old ones when they were current and I'm sorry I don't remember any like that, then again my normal group back then hardly ever wiped.

More than one person has stated in this thread what is flawed in your method of trying to prove "how easy everything is" and I'm not going to bother to repeat them. And lets be honest, other than replacing the tank with a beastlord with a tank pet, you are still running with a stacked group.

TSO had progression as long as you followed it, by the time you made it to Guk, you had the gear for it. DoV was the same except Drunder, which was a playground added for the top 1% of Heroic players or bored raiders looking for something to do during downtime.

Most of CoE was too easy I'll give you that, but ToV once again returned to a progression scheme of easy, not too hard, challenging and hard. Just like we now have in AoM.

My whole problem with your brag/complain thread is this. You had already blown through 99% of the AoM heroic content when you made it. So the changes made no difference to you. You, instead of being satisfied with your personal achievements and sitting back to wait on the next round of content that is right around the bend, are just upset that others might now be able to do the same content which doesn't just come across as petty, it is petty.

Considering that is an Achievement, it was meant to be doable from the get go.

Wow, just wow. We bow to your uberness. Seriously dude that was just rude and uncalled for. This game has a lot of aspects to it. Just because there are some who are not playing like you do doesn't make them any less important to the game. Those fluffs as you called them help keep the lights on in games. I'm just amazed at the arrogance of some folks.

Can I point out in original tier 5 what he's calling hardcore could be tanked with a Conj tank pet. The conj in my original guild could solo almost all the group zones. This was pre-DoF the original release. Hell in raids if our MT got one shot he could pick it up and tank it with that pet for several minutes easy. And then the tank would grab it back.

It's just so stupid. If I want a burrito I won't go to the only steaks restaurant in the first place.
Let me point to you though. Each and every restaurant in states has diversed menus where you can find a steak or a burrito or a pasta dish if you wish.

Talk about an absurd post. Yours is an example.
For your information I never cried for nerfs. I usually if I run with a group, a pug or with guildies alike, I stay till the end no matter what but normally like everybody else prefer a quick and easy run. As I said I got enough challenge when I raid.

It wasn't hard in the beginning... I remember tanking raid mobs on my dirge back then...

Conj were uber back then. And Paladins were overland heroic soloing gods. And then LU13 went live and most of them quit lol.

"My whole problem with your brag/complain thread is this. You had already blown through 99% of the AoM heroic content when you made it. So the changes made no difference to you. You, instead of being satisfied with your personal achievements and sitting back to wait on the next round of content that is right around the bend, are just upset that others might now be able to do the same content which doesn't just come across as petty, it is petty."


Who does that? I don't know a single player that clears the zones and then just stops playing for months on end until the next update. That's an absurd fix you're suggesting.

It has nothing to do with my achievements. I expect the zones to maintain some measure of difficulty so it's not a mindless slog. I don't care if others can or cannot do it. What I care about is whether or not the zones maintain some level of challenge. VD was difficult to the end. Having a full set of 3/3 potent didn't trivialize the zone whatsoever. That's certainly not the case in these zones. If you're wearing full gemmed green gear, you can completely ignore the scripts in all zones below T3.

It has nothing to do with pettiness. The focus is the mentality of game design such that it caters to the worst of the worst. The lowest common denominator. Catering to people that cannot be bothered to even know their own abilities is beyond bad design. If that's going to be the case, why make zones anything other than a hallway with a few tank and spank named in it? Clearly that's what players want. It's just too demanding to expect people to learn scripts, read detriments, know their class, or learn to move in a fight.

The pro-nerf crowd has nothing other than entitlement. The content was designed for those like me. It was changed to be pathetically easy because of entitled demands from your side. Casuals have the most content by far. Seems to me that you casuals are the ones that are petty.

Nothing about my group is stacked. These are the classes that these people started year ago. We didn't develop this group with idea dps or anything like that in mind. We each picked a class with the only stipulation being that someone has to tank and someone else has to heal. Inquisitor, defiler, beastlord (he changes his main every few years due to nerfs usually), dirge, and paladin is hardly a stacked group. A stacked group is what the Russian is using in Choir, pumping out 60 million dps. We're not even close to half that.

The content is playable and accessible. the requirements are something set by other players preferences. DONT ever compare this to wow. i dont know why no one else found this offensive to eq2. if ur having trouble then go play something that your dont have to think and is easymode. but dont tell eq2 to turn this in to another mindless zombie wowcopy. where everyone HAS to be specked ONE way to get a group, or not haveing any pride for achieving something that actually took skill and coordination. and half of those millions of wow players are kids under 13 that most the time are not the people i wanna be running with, being 30 myself. (wouldn't that be a tad bit creepy?) and there usually the ones spamming gen. chat and forums with ignorant insults and conversations and begging for powerleveling and gold and help with stuff that if they took 10 sec to look at there quest log or map can find it them selves.

You still stacked the group to your favor. That is the definition of "stacked group" whether you want to admit it or not. And leave the Paladin out of this, since you said your BL has replaced him in most of the zones anyway...

Seriously man, get over yourself.

The bottom-line to me about this too easy for HM players or too hard to casual is there needs to be a path of progression. The path of progression in AoM “Should not “start with 3/3 Potent from the last Xpac and a full set of jewelry from ToV. At the launch of AoM everyone had the gear from ToV and it was fine.

The path of progression in AoM for Heroic content starts with a full set of Solo/handcrafted gear, in the Dino zones. Both of these 2 zones should be able to be completed with a full group that has this gear and without ACT. I am fine with the way dino zones are, but saying that they are to easy is far from the truth.

After the dino zones is the pirate zones, using the same rule of thumb, I do not think a full group of half dino gear and half solo/crafted gear and 1 healer can clear either pirate zone. At release of AoM the pirate zones were not able to be completed by its target gear set. It may be able to be completed now by its target gear people and 2 healers but I doubt it. These zones are probably ok the way it is but not at release.

I could go on zone set by zone set, but at release the zones were able to be completed by people with ToV gear and a lot of work, but not by people with the intended gear.

ToV had one zone like that. AoM has three* zones like that. Sounds like an improvement to me.

*Arguably two since Ossuary Event is ridiculous.

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