Devs Please Read (Problem with Swashbucklers)

Actually, Bootleg is our last smuggle. I just got it at 39.

I agree. Lot of skills broken and it's been how long now after beta?

Yes, knockdowns are graphics only. They don't interrupt at all. Mobs cast while sitting on the ground.

100% agree. STOP giving us tanking abilities. I want scout abilities and high damage attacks like the other scout classes, not tnaking skills.
Message Edited by Naggybait on 01-11-2005 03:49 PM

Guys i saw that you complain a lot about poison on tier 5 being resisted a lot.Are you talking about store bought poison ? Because recently they patched alchy tier 4 and 5 poison,not sure if it work well on lvl 40 + mobs resist wise but maybe its worth some testing.Just try to contact alchy lvl 41 +,don't expect them to run after you for their poison being tested,they are busy refining tier 5 ressource and resselling to vendor...But i m sure if you are interested in poison you should check this out

Yea, we are mainly talking about the 200+ skill NPC poisons being broken. They were broke in beta and still broke. No idea on player made poisons personally.

I believe though, from what others are saying, that even player made ones are broke, or were.
Message Edited by Naggybait on 01-12-2005 04:34 PM

I asked a lvl 50 assassin who has recently tested crafted poison tier 5, he said that they were sticking but he did not parse his damage with it yet.
As a lvl 26 brigand i did test a lvl 31 poison , was a small initial hit + very large dot type (rancorous affliction lvl 31)Initial was 8 and dot was 88 x 4 wich was about twice more than what i usually get from lvl 20 poison (the purple) ones.
Though the bad thing is that they are expensive , i believe cost to create might be between 1.5g and 2 g for alchy but translucent one come with 4 charges , and after using it three times you can resell it for same price that if it had 4 charges.

I hope you're talking about selling back to a vendor, 'cause that's one reason people aren't going to buy them from alchemists, the other is that it's nearly impossible to search the merchant boards for poisons unless you know the name of the poison.

What has CSR or GM said about this crappy lvl 50 skill?

I gave up tanking when I left Isle of Refuge...

I am 34 at this moment, and I understand where the rest of you are coming from. I DO feel like I am a huge damage dealer, but things just do not seem right. A lot of my attacks claim to have special effects on them, but I often doubt that they are actualy doing anything other then damage.

Damage output has had me worried for about 10 levels now. From 1 to 20, my damage output increased at a noticable rate. When I was in my low 20s, the series of attacks that I used each hit for somewhere in the 80 to 180 range. Now I am level 34 and... that hasnt changed much. nearly 15 levels later, those numbers are more like 90 to 190. Over time, I have gotten better versions of those old attacks, and upgraded them to adept 1 whenever possible, but there is almost no increase in my damage output compared to what I was doing 10 levels ago. I hear all these stories of rangers assasins and brigands dealing massive hits for 700+ damage and I laugh. My hardest hitting single attack, at adept 1, used on a grey con enemy, hit for about 220. My best attack overall is my triple strike, which hits for over 300 damage total.

The mez ability is.... nifty.... but not what I would call a valuable class defining trait. Besides the fact that it has a 30 sec recycle time, and about 20 second duration, it is only a single target ability. It only makes a difference in very rare situations. Most of the time, it is a waste of mana to cast, because unless there is a real enchanter in my group, EVERYONE is using some sort of AE or group target ability. On the other hand, if we DO have a real enchanter, they certainly dont need me to try and mez anything.

I love being a swashbuckler, and while it does get the job done currently, it does not seem like everything is working the way it should, and it seems like my damage output is not ramping up properly as I get higher in level.

I just got Risky Advance to replace Rash Advance at level 27. However, a few problems I see with this:
1) It does not appear to do anything more than was Rash Advance did. I see my piercing/slashing go up by 5 still.
2) It is not on the same timer...yet they don't stack.
3) If I have Rash Advance up...and hit the button again to queue it, it just turns off Rash Advance and starts the timer over again.

One thing that really annoys me about our buffs is that when you cast it, the recast timer on them starts. Say I have Rash Advance start. It is a 40 second buff with a 30 second recast. So, in theory I should be able to keep using it. So, both timers start counting down. I see the 30 second recast end and I still have 10 seconds on the buff. If I recast right then, I can keep the buff up. However, if I wait until Rash Advance goes off (40 seconds), then the recast timer starts counting from 30 seconds again. So I cannot cast it again if I let it run out. As if it isn't bad enough that we have a stupid 40 second buff that I have to keep watching, I have to keep casting it before it runs out.

I have given up on Rash Advance, only in raids do I use it sometimes


Btw, I got adept disarming smirk, it lasts about 2 seconds more. Which isn't a very big improvement but at least its something.

Btw, lucky gambit is an AoE that says very precise high dmg AoE.....the dmg hasn't changed much since the 30's. Gone from 70 to about 100 in 15 lvls. Brilliant Swathe lvl 48 AoE I have an adept of does about 200 dmg AoE. It reads as a description a AoE dmg attack.

Something wrong there?

Yes, and I got some parse readings: group was

50 guardian - 120-140 dps
50 wizard - 100-120 dps
50 troubador - 80-100 dps
47 monk - 150-170 dps
48 warden - 40 dps
50 swashbuckler - 170-190 dps

This was with a lvl 50 troubador. I realize my DPS isn't terrible, but my skills are not worthing the way they were intended IMO. Debuffs still not working. Try to parse a brigand (no lvl 50 brigand yet on my server). Their ruse hits 1500 and above and they have very similiar skills as swashbucklers, plus DoTs. I have a feeling brigands are gonna be a much better choice then swashbucklers unless some of our skills are fixed.

In the meantime I am starting a troubador alt since they are way overpowered and prob not gonna be gimped anytime soon.

Nooooooo please don't do that Rioisk. As a Dirge I already feel somewhat sorry for the poor troubs but having you join their ranks, well, really, they don't deserve/need that. Why not just quit the game and do us all a big favour?

I think it's kinda funny that several Brigand skills got fixed/improved in the last patch but none of ours...

I think it's kinda funny you expect everything you want fixed to get fixed immediately.

In all honesty, I have no clue why you guys are as mad as you are. Granted, the class as a whole could use some tweaks. However we're not the horrible useless class that all of you seem to make us out to be.

No, we are not useless. We have some parsers (people that parse every fight and paste the info into chat) and I regularly come out on top, sometimes by a large amount. I have even started pulling ahead of the tanks, for the most part (new training skills and level skills helped a lot). Some tanks still come close and I sometimes fight for lead over certain monks. Overall though, I do really good. Maybe it's my levels now and new skills and me being even or 1 level below the mobs.

Now, with that said, I just want them to FINALLY get around to fixing some of our broken skills. It's been over 2 months now (actually longer since some were broke in beta). Stop trying to make tanks out of us and give us DPS skills instead.
Message Edited by Naggybait on 01-16-2005 03:27 PM

Just to let you guys know so you can look for it, the two 200 skill poisons my alch sells are Disruptive Torment and Withering Spirit. DT is the biggest nuke poison, WS is the biggest DoT poison (and there are levels in between, not sure if some of them would be more desirable to some people). IIRC a 37 swash said that DT was hitting for about 200 each time and the DoT on WS was 5x125 plus a minor nuke, and that they weren't resisted significantly at least on mobs up to level 42. At level 25 (my swash level) WS nukes for about 17 and then does 5x77 and usually makes up 20-30 percent of my DPS. The 37 said that the poison was making up around 30% of his DPS a lot of fights. Other poisons are Touch of the Void, Hypnotic Shock, and Anger of the Spirits. Might be missing a few.

If you seriously want the devs to read and respond to this thread, remove the "Devs please read" part from the title as Devs will not post in any thread that names them by name or title (to prevent everyone doing this).

I want high end DPs fixed too.

Moggy
Najena

Its time I put in my opinions on this subject, and I believe them to be well founded and not just disagreements.

I approached this game with a lot of excitement and preperation. I was constantly on the boards chatting, trying to get more info on the game and its design. I read every article I could find from SOE and players. Finally I played 2 weeks of beta before release. From all my research and my type of gameplay I had finally decided what class I wanted to be..... SWASHBUCKLER !

Its design and playstyle fit my desire. I wanted to be heavily utility with a secondary dps. Basically a class that everyone would look at and say, it takes alot of skill to play that class. So lets get to the point...

My experience thus far as a Swashbuckler has been a mix of disappointment and frustration. I have had very few moments of joy come from playing the class. The game itself, the look and the feel, is really the only reason I am still playing. I am currently level 43 playing on the guk and would be 50 by now if I was actually enjoying myself. When I was around level 30 I did a /who all Swashbuckler to see how popular this class really was. At that time there were around 70 Swashies... 5-6 highest. I checked again recently and saw on average less than 40. Ussually around 27- 35 on weekends. The fact is many people rerolled to another class. I believe this is because they were so unhappy with being a swash and had such high expectations for it. Ultimately those people may end up playing another class and be disappointed and more than likely leave the game.

Swashbuckler class promised to be a utility class with dps in the mid to upper range. Well I am here to say that as a person who loves the utility idea... its not found in this class.

1. Debuffing - From my groups parsing and experiments (no i dont have logs), we have found that my debuffs have little to no effect... but most priest debuffs are next to godlike. Give us short term debuffs that are insane, but only last for seconds. Thus a skilled player would use his debuffs then immediately use his abilities that would take advantage of those debuffs. I currently use that system with no gain.

2. Power - Are you kidding ? I am consistantly out of power. I mash abilities to keep up on dps only to run out of power. I use only the abilities that are power efficient only to lose out on dps and be NEARLY out of power. THERE IS NO BALANCE HERE. This one is a problem with me. I dont mind that this class requires us to always be aware of our situation and constantly mash buttons. But the fact that I am out of power on a consistance basis tells me that the numbers were not crunched to factor in utility + dps. (I have above average eqiup, my power pool is fine.) This one is simple... balance out the power. Lower it FFS.

3. Group Invis - Great... but everyone must sneak... and many other casters get group invis without a movement penalty. Maybe give us group invis that is much more effective that normal group invis from casters. I havent used this skill since low 30's. Otherwise lose it altogether and stop teasing me.

4 Mes - This was more of a bonus to me. But at the same time I am going to have to agree with an earlier post. If you are going to give this to us make it useful. Currently we cast it on a mob and get some what of 15-20 seconds at best. With a 30 second recast this gives us 10 seconds of waiting while it beats on an ally. By that time the tank is hitting + taunting it, the casters and running around flailing about confused, and the Swashbuckler gets a nice glare at the end of the fight. The strategy side of my only uses this on pulls for the moment. This gives the priests a second to wake up, and thats about it. If the tank is taunting the mob while we try and mes it, its just going to waste everyones time.

5. Taunt - This is sorta a joke. Granted taunt can be useful when the tank is down... or if an adds occurs and you need to draw agro... but currently is again just a joke to us. We do not have the ability to tank these mobs that we are taunting. Again I have above average eqiup, thanks in part to my guild. So I know if I should be tanking.. I would be. BUT here is the fact of the matter. More times than not the mob is attacking a priest. Most every priest my level has MORE ac than I do. And better yet in some cases MORE hp. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]... are you serious ? When this happens I just ignore it or backstab the mob, since I am not going to do any better at tanking than he is.

To sum it up what I have found from the class is a "fill in class." Or thats the best theory I can come up with. There was a slot open for another rogue and it needed to be filled so this one was slapped together with the attributes of every class and then wrapped nicely with a pretty bow. I believe myself to be a better than average player with the desire to play, but do not think I will still have that desire in me to continue if there arent improvements made. I have invested too much time into a class that promised to be so much but did not deliver even a little.

So folks if you are looking to be a utility class with dps, start a Bard. They are the best utility scout and awsome dps to boot. As for Swashbuckler... I do not see this class as anything to be honest. Maybe a water downed bard ? Possibly a good idea that someone didnt follow through with ?

I will be playing til 50, but instead of already being 50 or getting there within the next 2 weeks it will more than likely be a month, because I am not sure how much I will be playing now. If you didnt read this from the start I dont blame ya, its pretty long winded... but I have been holding this in and playing devils advocate for some time.

Exoro
43 Swashbuckler
Guk Server

Debuffs- I agree completely. None of our debuffs to anything noticible at all, though our self-buffs do.

power- wouldnt know, not in the high end yet.

Group Invis- Not true at all ( about casters). The only caster that gets it is a fury, and they get it at lvl 45. All mages get a single target invis. I see no problem here.

Mes- 10-15 seconds of an add not beating on the tank ( or someone else) is always a good thing. Not much tactical advantage thats for sure. I have saved my group numerous times with this though ( even at app1).

Taunt- Ive never used it to save someone else ( except the tank). But I do use it regularly when I group as the tank ( sometime grinding, but grinding isnt everything). This has more non-grinding group applications. And while priests usually have more AC than you ( and hp), thier avoidance isnt nearly as high, and its much easier to heal when not being interrupted/stunned. Also priests tend to stand back with the mages, so a mob attacking a priest poses a threat to the mages as well with AE attacks ( barrage especially).

Debuffs - Agreed. Most of our skill "after effects" aren't working.

Power - Rarely am I out of power and I'm usually the highest or second highest DPS'er in my group. Guess it's all about who you group with and what power buffs/regens they have.

Group Invis - Extremely useful. Depends. IF all you do is grind you'll never use it. But it has serious applications for groups that just want to get in and get out of particular areas.

Taunt - Very powerful, extremely useful. If you tank. If you picked a swashy and didn't expect to tank part of the time after looking at our ability list in beta then you had some bad expectations. We make great tanks in a pinch and Taunt rounds out our aggro control abilities. All of which work very well and as described.

Once our abilities our fixed and work as described we will be a powerful addition to any group. As we are right now we are still very useful DPS.

Totally agree on the debuffs

Power, make sure you are drinking stuff appropriate for your level. If you are still using vendor stuff, no wonder. At 40, you should be using a minimum of level 30 stuff. I use 40 and 50 if we are doing a LOT of fast pulls and while i may run out of power from time to time when we have a lot of adds, I do pretty good keeping up. Get a chanter in my group along with good drink and I can spam the crap out of my skills and still not run out.

I use my group invis kinda regularly to get us past the trash and back to where we were or just to get past stuff we don't want ot bother with. It's a great skill and as has been said, there aren't many that get group invis.

Mez has saved my butt and a group member's butt many times. I use it on adds, because as has been said, even 20 seconds of the mob not hitting someone can save the cleric a LOT of power. I have used it anywhere from adds to a mob chasing a party member so they can get away. I agree it could be better though.

Taunt is good if you are playing with a healer or something doing single pulls and you are the tank. I have used it once in awhile to help pull off the healer.

Overall I have been happy with my Swashbuckler. Now if they would FIX all our broken skills and stop making us out to be tanks and give us useful skills instead of more tanks skills and dump our fluff skills for something usefull, it will be even better.