Tomanator wrote: rofl Thanks for the vote of confidence! Just thought I would mention that as a raid OT, all gear being equal, Zerkers have higher hit points, higher mitigation, higher avoidance, higher hate position (aggro) generation, and higher DPS than Shadowknights. Did I miss anything? Oh ya. Zerkers have WAY, WAY higher DPS than an SK. Oops, sorry, I already mentioned that. Sorry to de-rail your thread, I'll head back over to the SK forums now... (BTW I am not griping, I think Zerkers are awesome!)
my ot is a sk, we have no other tanks, besides a monk but of course we keep the monk cuz of the haste buff and he can tank lots of stuff too. tank slot availability is rather limited, to mt/st and monk w/ haste buff, i'm pretty sure it's like this in most guilds heck for most raids it's just mt/st monk w/ haste buff. we have zerker alts that we ask ppl to dust off if we're missing a st for avatar adds or something but no we currently have no use of a zerker sk does avatar adds just fine, pally would be nicer w/ amends but then your either putting a pally st in a mage group or putting a warlock/wiz in a offtank group whats the point. So what is a zerkers role in end game? ST if your lucky, or betray and become the MT. Other than that most raiding guilds run a tight 3spot only for tanks so if your not a st already roll up a dps class and you can have a finely geared zerker alt =p. It's not a jab at zerkers i was one b4 i betrayed, it's the just state of raiding atm along w/ the lack of need for more than 3fighters if any and the fact that the guard is the more viable mt, even more so if you are mythical ready. It doesn't make sense to be a zerker MT, the fact that if your a zerker mt and your guild is mythical capable just seems like such a waste of a mt spot. Not saying a zerker can't mt, or you can't mt w/o a guard mythical, just why would you? betrayal is such an easy process, if your guild is mythical capable why not have a guard mythical to mt with instead.
Auron@Befallen wrote: i'm gonna go out on a limb and call bs on this one and say that you probably suck as a zerker and never had any decent prospective apps.
my zerker days were over when eof came out aa were better as a guard, along with mit curve being added, tos is just better. Thats when being an effective mt meant being a guard and not guard/zerker anymore, why cripple yourself and your guild if your going to be mt as a zerker when you can be so much better as a guard. same holds true still why cripple you and your guild as a zerker mt, if your mythical capable when the guard mythical makes every mt zerker *sadface? we had a great zerker, he quit we tried to breed our own zerker inhouse that failed, sk has always been there, so we have zerker alts take gear either of us don't need. any of the 4 plate tanks can ot just fine, we even tried a guard ot, but in the end ot avatar adds just boils down to the player. so in the end it's a zerkers role is to be an ot, but they have to fight it out w/ sk's and pally's and even possibly another guard for ot slot.
you claimed zerkers can't OT and that's what i call BS on but then it changed to any class can OT just fine, which is for the most part true, if they know their class. i don't know why zerks try to remain and MT for raids either, it's just simpler and easier as a guardian of which i would assume it is just for the challenge and to say they did it. don't some of us still try to prove the masses wrong and do the impossible? yep, zerks can still MT avatars and do, there is just very few left that ever will be to that level of play.
i'm gonna go out on a limb and say you didn't read it properly i've never said zerkers can't ot, i just mentioned my ot is a sk, since i was responding to the sk in the post. zerkers can ot fine but like i said b4, theres as much, if not more competition for the OT slot as there is for the MT slot since all 4 plate tanks can be effective OT's but raiders (and anyone and everyone) only recognize guardians as a MT.
i took it that way, since you rank an SK above a zerk. maybe your SK is exceptionally geared and played, i don't know but all things being equal i don't think SKs rate above zerks as offtanks considering our mythical.
whose ranking? my sk ot is probably 1 of 2 sks in an avatar killing capable guild that uses a sk, and yes he's designated as OT not sometimes ot when the ot isn't there, he is the OT. Every other avatar capable guild is probably using pallys or zerkers, with a guard ot throw in here and there.
Ok, Now that I'm at 80 and have started being able to raid and get apopriate gear these are things that I see NEED to be FIXED, NOT CHANGED, FIXED. Lets face it the abilities are a bit outdated. Honestly the class is a bit outdated. Some changes are big some are small. Obviously I dont know everything I dont claim to these are my thoughts. First, For me the biggest issue isnt just our class it all tanks. This issue is taunting, it is pratically useless. Mock = 1500-1869hate / 8 = 225 hps/dps Bellow = 1000-1300hate / 20 = 65 hps/dps War Pledge = 1164hate+850dmg / 10 = 201 hps/dps This is simple a drop in the bucket, eyecandy if you will. It serves really no use when you have dps parsing 3-6k on fights. Now, from what I have noticed as the game has progress the mobs have gotten more life thus DPS has gotten more DMG and tanks have gotten more health Because said mobs increasingly hit harder. BUT, the Tanks taunts have never been respect to account for the DMG classes increases in DPS so this need to be fixed first and formost. IF used appropriatly all our taunts need to be throwing out at least 800-1000 hps/dps. I still want the balance where tanks need to have hate transfer/gain abilties placed on them in raid because this adds to the team work and skill requirements that make raiding fun. This obviouly will be dependant on the tank and not just a general boost in all taunts. Each tanks taunts need to be increased appropraitly for what they do. Im going to take for example one of my biggest issues for me which is Guardian and Beserkers. Guardian do way to much dmg considering their desciption/role. They are supose to be defensive tanks that is why they have all the "cool","neat", "superfly" defensive abilties. BUT because of the way the game has evolved if guardians didn't do the dmg they do right now then they wouldnt be able to hold aggro for beans. NOW Beserkers do out damage Guardians. I'm sorry, but those of you that say a guardian can out parse me, when we are in comprabable gear/groups, in a zone wide you are a couple cards short of a deck. Unfortunatly, the amount we out dmg guardian by hardly compensates for our lack of defensive and aggro control abilities, this would be why so many beserkers have left the game or Betrayed. IF taunting was respect allowing for tanks to actually hold aggro with taunts then classes Like the Guardian could have their DPS backed off a bit allowing for a bigger gap between our two class and possibly more reason for people to role beserkers. Im sure many Guardians think im screaming NERF, but im not your class is not meant to do DPS you are defensive tanks and you need to be played as such. I dont want Guardian to be broken I have lots of Guardians friends I want you to fullfill you roll just as effectivly as you are just not while stepping on my classes toes. Next, our abilities. Some of our class abilties need some tweaking. I always thought that we were supose to be the ultimate AOE tanks. Now while we do still put out an impressive amount of aoe dmg, I grped with a palidin and they have like 9 aoes so now wait..... How did that happen. They also have an abilty that does insane amount of AOE dmg cant remeber the name I think it is called Consicrate. Thats fine, but seriously our abilties need to be update. Anyways here are those tweaks/ changes. To start with im going to hit the biggest abilty that Beserkers Loath and that is our Health Regen line. Now this is a great idea very poorly implimented and worst of all you make it our Raid AE abilty. What a joke, at adept 3 with AA maxed it gives the whole raid 116 health ever tick OMG WOW!!!! LOL. Sorry, but this is just to funny. To be honest the whole idea of the the berserker giving everyone in the raid Health regen is just silly to me it a berserker trait how does a none magical based classes heal health other over time for other people.... So any ways. I personally would like to see it changed to one of our other abilities, Now as is our other 2 grp buff would be way too overpowered to be made raid wide. So As most melee dps classes become close to Str caped anyways in raiding you should make our Grp berserk buff Raid wide, but make the raid effect separate from our grp ones. Make them lower and dumbed down. This makes more sense to me and is much more usefull than a raid wide health regen buff. If you insist apon keeping our Regen buff as raid wide at least beef it up and make perseverance work for everyone so it doubles for the whole raid when they are below 30%. For those of you that are like OMG NO... That is a whoping 232 health per tick right now if perserverance worked. Then there are our AOE abilties. To be honest Turmoil is outdated. Palidins have Consicrate that has NO trigger limit, it only limitation is hostile effect and pretty much ever monster in this game has at least 1 if not multiple hostle effect it places on you. So IMO this abilty need to be put at aleast 15+ triggers and have its dmg uped by 25-35%. Turmoil also has a 3 sec cast time that is ridiculious it need to be brought down to the same cast time as Open Wounds 1 sec. That is double the time of any of our other combat arts. This doesnt just go for Turmoil but all our AOE attacks have stupid cast times and barely worth casting because of the Auto attack dmg we lose. They need to be at least 1.5 sec cast times if not 1 sec cast times. Finally, Adrenaline. Great ability I love it those of you that dont like it are Crazy. Great Job Dev's So this last bit is going to be purely Wishlist stuff. I have already said that out class lacks that truly defining thing that captures what a beserker is. Yes we do dmg, yes we can take hits thats a tank for you. Im talking about what really lets you get into the mind set of your character. What is a Beserker? So, I have posted something like it before, but I still think it is cool and would love to see something like it impliments and give us a unque role in the game. This would basically be our Snatch Aggro Abilty. REVENGE Target: Raid or Group Fighter Trigger: Target Dies Duration: 30 sec Effects: Caster acts as if Charmed and has no control. All Buffs Canceled Casts Possessed Caster can not be targeted. +200% haste/+200%DPS/+100%DA 100% of all damage is prevented On a successful melee attack the spell will cast Infuration Increase threat to target Encounter by 2500. Casts Crippled On Termination. Lasts for 45 seconds. -400% haste/-400%DPS/-200%DA -100% mitigation/-100%avoidance Slows Caster by 60% YES, you will die most likly unless the revived MT times a rescue or something right when it cancels, but it is an awsome abilty gives you a great role for recovering from raid wipes and it totally fit the beserker class without over powering us. The 45 sec we are nerf or if we die will cancel out the 30 sec of uber god like status on the parses so NO ONE can complain about our dmg. Again like I said Wish List and Freakin Awsome.
all i really want you to do is think of what makes a zerker and what special abilities we have and their current limits: strength crit % double attack haste DPS +CA juggernaut- it is beginning to show its age, currently i have to have my persona window up to see when this ability will even be useful. with the mythical procs and the ability to buff to 80% crit or higher in group before you gain 15% from your mythical, why would you toss on a physical mitigation debuff for a little to no benefit? it needs to be revamped or the crit cap raised to a triple attack or somesuch. i can modify my UI, i'm sure to adapt to this but it is still ill thought out and is an issue for this class when our class defining abilities which make us what we were become lackluster. group haste/DPS- this was a nice little buff, it follows the 10% upgrade rule in this expansion, too bad there is a thing called diminishing returns which negates this 10% rule and burns it down. turmoil- prebuffing is its only purpose, then as our offtanking heritage presents us it is just a pita as it can pull aggro off the MT before the mob is stuck to him. casting this in battle is a next to useless as the cast time overrides the DPS gained from the ability. open wounds- who needs AE with our mythical? who needs more haste when a zerk can self buff to over 100 before even getting into a group without casting it? again, needs to override the current haste cap to be beneficial to us again. touchy one here, i cant think of any practical use they could do to this one. taunts- they have gotten weaker over time as our DPS grew, until we hit the barriers with our caps in every bulletpointed field listed above. we really didn't need improved taunts in EoF, even in RoK they are marginally weak but the lack of snap aggro as an offtank when everything is stun/stifle/rooting/mezzing you is frustruating for most. HP regen- we don't need 5 trees with this on it. leave our self buff, make it permanent instead of the stupid 15 minute temporary buff that is annoying as [I cannot control my vocabulary]... get rid of the raidwide HP regen, IMO i think it's a waste of time having a spot for it in my knowledge book and casting the spell. it won't save you, it won't save your comrades, it doesn't generate any hate worth mentioning on our mythical... get rid of it in short, too many things are zerks capped in where guards benefit much more from it than we do, we eventually rely on proccing damage which is few and far between to better ourselves instead of the inherent attributes we were given which were listed above that have begun to fail us. all in all, we are zerks and we choose to make things more difficult for ourselves in pursuit of doing more than other tanks, but when those negatives yield little to nothing then our class definition fades and what are we? we are no longer berserkers but watered down versions with no easy fix aside from either completely revamping this single tier abilities or changing the class for the span of all of its tiers. i feel like i've been led down a tunnel that gets more narrow as you go. what does this mean? it means i think this class is [I cannot control my vocabulary], some will stick with it like i probably will. the rest who look for reason in a class? well.. a zerk surely is easier to solo than a guard but a guard once in a group or raid has almost everything we have and then some. the difference in DPS does not give us peurpose any longer. every class needs boundaries to keep them from being overpowered, i agree with this. however the mentality has really dug into the purpose of this class and turned it upside down and ripped the "berserker" title from it. if you want us to be average DPS tanks then fine, we need more tanking abilities to compensate. if we are to be the offensive warrior still? rethink abilities like juggernaut and open wounds and give them the flavor they once had back again.
Amen, Lyger. We are just guardians with less defense, less survivability and no aggro-snapping (Rescue every 10 min, megawow). Before Level 52 (Open Wounds) there is almost no AE difference to guardians. All we had were those two AEs with that dump long casting time that consumes dps. I.e. berserkers became a bit more AE-intense with the first expansion to level 60. The next very minor AE upgrade was Destruction with level 70. Those things that make up a guardian are more precious for a guardian than our berserker-defining abilities are for us. * Open Wounds and Destruction: recast time reducable to 1 or 1.5 min by AAs * Casting time of all AEs and Open Wounds and Destruction: 0.5 sec * A self weapon skill buff. The aggro loss in def stance is really amazing. * Replace the ride-wide HP reg by a group or raid MANA reg (weaker than bards' and enchanters' ). The HP reg is sooo useless in groups and esp. raids (gaining some sense at least with the mythical reg -> hate gain) Or make it noticable: 500 or 750 per tick or depending on max health (10% or such). * We should have a buff like the agi-line offers to hit multiple targets with autoattack BY DEFAULT. *searching for the manual... berserkers are tanks that can deal with multiple enemies at once... hmmm* * AA should not enhance the range of AE attacks, but the range of auto attacks (or both) * Recast time of 'Vision of Madness' set to 5 (yes indeed, in words: five) minutes. * fix Adrenaline * An optically less exaggerated manga-mythical weapon. Esp. on dwarves it looks so overdimensional. Have the designers ever wielded a real axe? With a very casual axe head (put on a longer, but not thicker, shaft) you have in your shack in the garden to split lumber you already can kill a 2.5m tall ogre. You don't need such a supertanker ship's propeller ... some suggestions Or give us at least ONE use- and powerful tool (by AA or have it replace that stupid group/raid hp reg) that makes guards envious. At the moment there isn't the faintest reason for guards. /dream mode off
ZerkerDwarf wrote: I thought this was funny. So I live in Iowa, and there's been a bit of water of late. I consider myself fairly lucky as I was 6 blocks away from the evacuated areas and more importantly UPHILL from them. Was sharing some pictures with some fellow EQ2ers and the comment was made that this road (1st Avenue downtown ) was "not working as intended". But . . . I think Aeralik believes it IS. ZerkerDwarf wrote: LOL. See, the thing is, you NEED the oversized heads in order for it to make the cherry cotton candy it spews out. That stuff looks delicious. ZerkerDwarf wrote: Dream mode is right. Remember . . . "no big changes planned."
