[DEV] Please let us know whether or not you're considering further improving existing gear.

Thing is, that's exactly what they did.

Everything I stated in both this thread and the one that got locked was factual, I disagree with you that I am "overstating" anything. I understand that people don't always like the facts, but that doesn't change anything in regards to them being true.

And as I said before, if a player only equates their worth in game to the gear they are wearing, then they in my opinion, have bigger issues they need to work on.

Yes people wasted resources and I agree they should be compensated for it, but time? No I do not agree. Time is only a factor if a guild loses progression, which, once again, they did not.

Great, I'd be happy if all infusing investments to date (plat, crafted and bonus) were refunded to my inventory and I could choose to reallocate those.

Would be happier if they'd just simply give us full retroactive credit, but the crux of our complaint here is the infusing investment.

So why is it to much to ask that these changes be retroactive so that nobody feels that they wasted time or resources?

No, it's not what they did. They added new gear to old content. Despite the fact that the new gear has the same name as the old gear, it's completely different. This is the problem.

How would any players feel if, now, DBG went back and made the drops from AoM Advanced Solo zones significantly better than the drops from ToT Advanced Solo zones? Ripped off, right? I sure would.

Itemization is something SOE / DBG has struggled with for the last 11+ years. I don't understand why it's so hard, or why it gets botched so often, especially when the logical flaws are pointed out in the beta testing. They've fixed these problems before by, you know, fixing the items. In this case, they did something they've not done before, and something that has upset a great many people. I can't comprehend how these sorts of things come to pass. At this point, it falls on the developers who no longer seem to even play their game. If they did, they would know that these problems existed long before they ever came to light.

What they have done here makes absolutely no sense, has no prior precedent and has upset their customers.

Let's take a look at a piece of gear you are wearing that got upgraded. http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/2289805282

It went from 56.2 Potency and 46 Crit Bonus, to 70 Potency and 63.3 CB. You are trying to sell 13.8 Pot and 17.3 CB as being a minimal upgrade? And you are telling someone else that they are out of touch?

Of course it's minimal, when Heroic Gear has more CB/Potency than Tier 3 gloves pre-patch. http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/37996332
These gloves i'm linking comes from an extremely easy event heroic that can be done in less than 10 minutes.

You're calling me out of touch when you don't see the problem here yourself.

How's this for devil's advocate -

Now while you are doing the same mobs you were doing before, every piece of armour is once again an upgrade. So while you are still raiding, you can make use of drops again, rather than them going to alts. And as a bonus, it'll make mobs easier/quicker for you, and allow more time on next unkilled mobs.

I'm calling you out of touch because you are an out of touch, and feel overly entitled to boot.
Did the gear you are wearing get a fairly significant upgrade? Yes.
Did the fights get any harder when you got the upgrade? No.
Did you lose any infusing that you did on the gear that was upgraded? No.
Can you continue to kill the same fights without getting any of the new gear? Yes.

So really the only thing that changed for you, was you now have the option of going and getting new gear, if you so choose to take that option. The gear you have currently did not get worse. Actually, it got quite a bit better.

Is your real complaint the fact that those of us that will go farm the new gear will have an edge over you if you are too lazy to do so?

Double post. Sorry

I don't post to often on these forums. But feel the need to on this topic. So many different views here. So I might as well share mine too.
1st off they did reset, change and update gear 1 month after the xpac was released. Then we were told from the Dev to USE infusers WISELY! So some of us waited and finally used what was left of bonus infusers, and then even spent plats on infusing gear knowing they had already Upgraded it, so surely for this current xpac that means we are all safe to infuse. Oops BOOM incorrect, they did it again. NEW gear same old raid zones! Same mobs, same content. Dkp burned, for gear now worthless, infusers burned for gear now worthless, plat spent on gear u may have bought. This is what has people upset. This is why people continue to use the word worthless! Because yes the current gear we have from raiding etc.. is now worthless compared to the new upgraded stuff.
2nd it takes 24 people for MOST guilds and in some guilds x3 to kill raid mobs, point being is it takes XX amount of people working together to get the job done. So it isn't as simple as running a zone to get the gear. And to get the raid gear its waiting till u have the dkp or plat etc. to get the item. So a lot of farming thus the term we are seeing here is artificially increasing the life of the current xpac by making the same old content drop new stuff.
Sadly that becomes boring fast and called farming. Yet again same mobs with new loots. Well for me the Thrill of raiding is working as a team and a NEW kill! And then 2nd the new gear. So I wouldn't like to run old content over and over with just new gear. I feel as a raider, that yes gear is important and yes if your in a top end raid guild you need to get the best gear possible and mid-max your toon, in this xpac that is nearly impossible to do with the current state of revamping gear constantly without any communication from anyone telling us what the heck they are doing!
In closing the lack of communication and letting us that do raid with 23 other people know what is happening, is why people are raging and upset. For us that did NOT use the plat exploit and don't have endless plat its upsetting to know we wasted plats on infusing the gear that was replaced without new content! We all expect to replace current gear with new gear when the new xpacs hit. Not rinse and repeat the same raid zones over an over for different gear!

You don't seem to understand at all, so let me spell it out for you.

We're upset because all the hard work we've put in to gear our characters up in the last 2 months has been FOR NOTHING.

January we got all our jewelry upgraded, so we had to regear ourselves again. Now we got all the armor upgraded and we have to regear ourselves once again, DOING THE SAME EXACT CONTENT. No new content has been released, therefore this wasn't warranted at all. Just a scheme from the devs to keep us doing the same exact content, the only thing is that it is currently backfiring because it made the gear we currently have, that we've worked to get and used our currencies, be it DKP or Plat, and used our EXTREMELY RARE beta testing Bonus Infusers on said gear, just to have these items made completely useless.

Now please, don't tell me i'm out of touch, when i'm actually a player who's actually playing this game and being affected by these decisions first hand, unlike you. I'm not acting entitled, i'm acting as a extremely upset and disappointed customer who just had his items and those of his fellow guild members made, ONCE AGAIN, worthless.

They just want to flame and troll. I have yet to see a legit point made towards why this is great. All they trying to do is debunk opinions. Opinions ffs.

It's clear the only people supporting this decision are the SLR gang.

No one is flaming or trolling. And offering different opinions is not debunking yours. And as far as sycla's SLR claim goes ( ) since it's the raiders who are in here complaining (when they could be you know, progressing) and I have yet to see any raid gear (other than the x2 once in a blue moon) going on sale in auction, that's pretty much a crock full as well.

Which you don't have to do. You could just ignore the changes, be happy with the upgrade you got to your current gear and keep on progressing to newer mobs and newer content.

Unless of course you have all of the current raid zones on farm status (do you?), well if that's the case, you should be thankful that they gave you a reason to go back in again.

Disclaimer: The following is from a raider's perspective for the raiding people. Non-raiders need not apply.

It is just beyond comprehension that some people here are just on the "new-content, new items, get over it" band wagon when it is clear as day that we are hard done by DBG.

Let us look at this from a chronological point of view shall we:

Tot launches -- immediate concerns about itemisation and the lack of disparity between solo, heroic and raid items. When you have the best tank shield dropping in an advanced solo zone and the best helm (for most classes) coming off a by-chance solo zone, you have got some serious problems. The issue is raised on forums and after some witty 1 liners, we get a response that something is in the works.

A few weeks later, we get some upgraded items (minute stat increases) from raids (with no upgrades to the gear already obtained) and indirectly told to keep on farming the raids. We again raise this issue and get some locked-down threads.

We then get the 17th of Feb update, yet with another slight upgrade to raid items (yes 10% increase in cb is not game breaking at this stage) with no retroactive update on the gear that people have acquired by expending effort, time, put up with lag and broken scripts and spent plat/infusers to upgrade.

I see two possibilities here:

A) Either DBG knew that this would happen as the content in this "campaign" is thin to begin with and that most raiding guilds (including my own) now have cleared all but 2 nameds in the current raid content within 3 months of the expansion, they have to make people somehow still want to continue playing and raiding. This is done by giving us this meaningless update to make us farm all over again.

OR

B) They knew the stats were not right and genuinely wanted to alleviate some of the problems and hence these updates.

In either case, we (the paying customers) are not satisfied by the service given. Not a single senior DEV has the common courtesy to come up here or Twitter to say yes we are sorry, we messed up and would do everything we can to rectify the matter and the first solution is: "We will upgrade all currently acquired raid items to the new upgrade list.

But no, instead we are told to be with content with the "new content" push coming in the form of old zones with new loot and be happy since it is all about "new content, new loot".

Then tell me, why on earth did I pay for an expansion when clearly the main upgrades to AoM raid items (check eq2u to see how many raiders are still wearing AoM armor and avatar charms and heroic jewellery) were to be found in a free fabled zone update? If development resources are that much running thin in DBG then why not delay ToT launch (given it was very broken and still is) by 3-4 months and then add the upcoming fabled zones to AoM. That way you would have more time to iron out kinks in ToT and launch a proper expansion with proper itemisation!

Now we wait for someone to de-rail this thread further and someone to lock this thread down as well.

Great job folks! best ways to keep the customers happy!

Yes, there is a lot of flamming and some are likely trolling.

SLR was pretty quiet tonight on Maj. Not many on in gen chat or auction. Not going to speculate, even though I could.
As far as debunking opinions; yeah most are. I have yet to see a clear opinion as to why someone wants this update as is; and why anyone disapproving should either be made to like it, be quiet, or stop playing; not without a jabbing remark at someone else's opinion.
I'm not directing this solely at you Wurm. If you've glossed over the responses of some people. They have weakened the clout that the player base has. Corporate execs will see this and have greater insight on how to do less and get an acceptable profit.

People that think this update is fine and merely say why they like it don't bother me. Mostly because they aren't jumping in threads attacking other people's opinions and remarking about people enraged. They can make a thread listing points on why they like it. And no one should attack that thread either. The mud flinging that I've seen back and forth that got threads lock and people sent away for a bit belongs at the kiddies table. I'm sure a bunch of us on both sides would like to see something done that almost all of us could accept. Why do customers snap at each other over valid complaints? I've never seen anything so insane. It's simply agree or disagree with the change. Anything more is a facepalm to watch; and has been a waste of time to try to make civil and rational. I'm tired of trying to reexplain what is taking place here; people on both sides need a popup book to explain consumer power and critical thinking. I know that's a bit inflammatory to say, but I digress.

I also think some people think this kind of action is dev bashing. No. It can get ridiculous like the back and forth we see here, but voicing complaints on the forums is the most reasonable way that they may up-channel to their bosses and perhaps the people at the top-the ones that slashed personnel and logistics to inflate the stock value.
We pay for a product they sell us. This isn't a summer camp we all met at, and we aren't all paid employees (although some players deserve to be with all the research they do for the rest of the players. It's a good community and most days a good dev/player relationship; but there is a line of separation.

the one thing...one thing that I think really got to everyone that is voicing complaints, is that there was no warning or chance to prepare. This wasn't the release of fabled zones where new gear would be released. And people have been working on their gear and spending time, DKP, plat, and rolling need/greed or /ran 100 all the way up until the update release with no idea that a lot of their recent effort (for some it was a lot) was better saved for now. I have no gripes about gear I got a month or two ago. It's what I got last weak; what I spent (X) amount plat reforging or infusing. It's about the hours of crafting I did to earn the plat that could have been saved until now.
You all should just start your own thread listing the things you like about it; we'll get ours cleaned up, and mods can keep the kiddies out. Then the devs can make an informed decision without everyone proving that MMORPG customers are the stupidest consumers on the planet.
As Hank Moody's friend and agent would say...Runkle out.

P.S.

Really?

Yes Really. Tell me why I'm wrong. You can't, because I'm not.

*edit* And I did spend a lot of plat, time and effort getting and then infusing my current gear, you know me well enough IRL to know that to be a fact.

However I'm not going to bother go looking for new versions of the heroic fabled that I already have, because one, I'm happy with the gear I have and two, when the new content comes out it's probably all going to get switched out anyway.

*edit 2* Maybe its because I see my gear as an means to an end and not part of my self-worth that lets me look at this the way I do, no idea.

I'm sorry so many people are mad about this change, and I hope those of you who are mad get what you want from the devs, but the whole "everything is now worthless!" line I keep hearing in these threads I refuse to acknowledge as being legit.