Can you post an actual avoidance report in comparison to another tank? I'm curious what that data looks like.
I only saved a few of my parses but I believe all tank classes have essentially zero avoidance this expansion. That is fine for other tanks because they have other ways of absorbing damage with much higher mitigation, percentage based reductions, and stoneskins. It is a major problem for us because our class is NOT designed to absorb every single hit. Bruiser is the avoidance tank. When Bruisers cannot avoid anything outside of a few temps (epic 1.0, tag team, impenetrable will) that essentially breaks the class. This is another zone wide avoidance report from last night in Midnight Aerie. An 11.46% avoid rate is not really acceptable in my view. Those dodges are only from using temps. Outside of temps the avoid rate is about zero.
This is not an avoidance report. Right click your name in the encounter, click see avoidance report then it tells you which % were what, stoneskins etc. I honestly wouldn' find bruiser's to be in a too terrible position tanking wise, if they just allowed tanks to actually avoid hits without a strikethrough immunity. At least you still have tag team, inner focus, tenacity, impenetrable, and myth clicky (lul). Bruiser's have 10% DR from the mythical, between defensive stance, stalwart aura, and brainstorm that's at least 22% nearly full time. I'm in no way saying that bruiser's are good; i'm inferring that they aren't terrible and have at least some form of damage reduction. A good fix would be to allow rock skin to make the bruiser immune to strikethrough through the left side prestige to make it a better tanking line outside of the avoid at the bottom.
Okay I can see you don't play bruiser. That is fine because nobody plays this class anymore and for good reason. Look at this zone wide avoidance report. It basically confirms what I said. My avoidance outside of temps is basically zero. Out of 533 swings only 1 was dodged and 1 was parried. Ten were resisted and 78 were stone skins. That is basically zero avoidance. This is with Celestial tier defensive stance and dirge buffs. I am so over geared for this zone it is not even funny but still it is rough going. Some of the auto-attacks were avoided (126 out of 341 swings) but the real problem is the 100% strikethrough on mob abilities. Bruisers need real fixes NOT just a little band-aid like you propose. Bruisers were not designed to just soak up damage. The whole class was built up around avoiding damage not absorbing it. We don't have the abilities or base mitigation to deal with continuous high incoming damage. After the death prevents are gone the Bruiser just goes "splat" and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. When game mechanics work like this there are effectively only Five tanks. Bruisers do not exist as viable tank in the current state of the game. That is why nobody plays them anymore. The only way to fix this problem is to give Bruiser the same strikethrough immunity we had on our defensive stance back in the day or at least partial strikethrough immunity so our avoid rate is more than zero against mob abilities. This shouldn't cause class balance issues as long as Monks do not get it too.
Who is you main Adoninilol? If you play a tank class please post an avoidance report so we can compare.
bruiser have 10% physical DR from myth. not all damage DR. they are definitely less tanky than monks. u need to rotate a lot more while monks can stay alive more easily even without using temps. plus rock skin "ward" added didn't increase. last time I checked it was sill a 22M damage ward .. maybe less. so it doesn't help much anymore. the the mitigation on rockskin itself is also less interesting since most damage isn't physical. same for the prestige left .. physical .. which doesn't help. While monks got heal/ward proc from the left side. Which is better and aged better. But I don't think strikethrough immunity would fix the issue. bruiser would still be a 2nd/3rd class monk. Even if u Obano don't care about dps ... bruiser dps need to be upped also.coz right now tanks have quite the same defensive abilities, they can tank everything (in theory) .. so their dps should be relatively similar (unless they bring Rdps or Gdps which would lower their personnal dps). Bruisers don't bring much utility. So their dps should be high in order to be viable. compting they can raid MT as any other tank of course.
oh and yes they have brutal stance (70% DR ancient but canot move at all or temp cancels) .. so they can be great on certain occasions if they don't need to move. but as said already, with their low range compared to monk (peel, the AA taunt? dragon fire), if a ranged dps grabs aggro .. bruiser will have to moven hence lose the buff. so overall ... there's a design issue with the bruiser all together. also .. how the bruiser playstyle (proc combo) interracts with ascensions. Monks also have an easier time since they only rely on DF. and the open fight with perfect being to boost damage. imagine .. our best dps tool is vicious comb ... and u need to stop spamming CA because of a combo. .. u still have a big dps loss from vicious overall compared to a monk if u cast your ascension. which u will
Overall I don't want the class to become over powered because that will lead to nerfs down the road. Being 2nd or 3rd rate is actually a good position to be in as long as the class is still viable. Look at Paladins, they have been 2nd rate tanks forever yet people still play them and they are still capable of doing what they need to do. They have never been flavor of the month but they have always been somewhat decent. That is where Bruisers need to be. Middle of the road; not first but last either. Slow and steady wins the race. Be seen but don't make too many waves. Don't rock the boat. The Devs (Xelgad) specifically told me they don't want so many Brawlers around. That is why the nerfs happened 6 years ago. We were flavor of the month for one expansion and then got slapped back down to bottom of the barrel. As far as DPS goes they should bring back the way KO' combo originally worked in Kingdom of Sky. KO-combo used to proc off over every swing on "one hundred hand punch." Instead of triggering once like it does now. KO-combo would trigger 8 times off of Hundred hand and up to 32 times on Savage assault. That was huge back in the day but it got nerfed because people complained. However, that mechanic would not be out of line for current content though since every tank is doing ridiculous damage and Bruiser hasn't really kept up. Rather than create a new ability to up our dps it would make more sense to restore our old KO-combo back to the way it was. I don't want another new temp. Work with what we got already.
So a new year and a new expansion. Bruiser getting very few AA changes nothing major. Such as buffing Bodyguard of Stone riposte damage from 35 to 50 damage. Yeah you read that right. But the next expansion have zero parry or riposte gear, much like the previous ones. I do wonder if the developers honestly dont care about class balance and if removing bruiser is just the only viable way to fix the brawler situation. They have 4 "easy" options in my eyes. Add Riposte and Parry gear for brawlers. Change Bodyguard of Stone so it can proc from something other than riposte and change Martial Retaliation into max hp and mitigation gains or dodge. Give us strikethrough immunity back on D stance and just keep all the lackluster AA's. Delete the bruiser class. This class have been having issues for so many years now its truly a mystery to me what they are doing.
Holy Necro Batman this thread is ancient. From what I have seen Bruisers will be pretty decent next expansion. Not great but decent. We got better AA changes than most classes. FD = fervor temp now. Mind over Matter AA gives more fervor and overcap to Bruising Spirit. Riposte doesn't matter. Although it is not listed anywhere I suspect Bruisers have partial strikethrough immunity since the start of BoL. In CD I had like 2% avoidance. Now in BoL it ranges from 50% to 70% which is pretty decent. It is not the 90% avoidance Bruisers used to have when we were the best tank in the game but it is workable. They seem to have reached a middle ground where it is balanced. I am cautiously optimistic but RoS might be the best expansion for Bruisers since CoE or AoD.
Bruisers will still have some of the weakest KoS endlines (soak hit is nice, but would be even better if we could selfcast it and bodyguard will be useful once in a full moon) and prestige tanking AA's of all the fighters. Their toolkit does not suit the game very well in 2020. Is it playable? Sure. Is it even remotely optimal? No. The class tries to play like it used to in a lost era and while it works its clear why only 3 people play the class.
Bruisers share the same KoS end lines as Monk and they are the strongest tanks in the game. If Monks can make those same end lines work then so can we. KoS lines aren't the problem and neither is soak hit. Bruisers don't need any help defensively right now. The real issue is Bruisers' class defining CAs don't do enough damage causing the class to lag behind Monks, Zerkers, and Shadow Knights in the DPS parse. Nobody wants to play a low parsing fighter, not when a Monk can do double the damage with the same gear and is just a betrayal token away. It is all about the DPS, we don't have anything that compares to dragon fire. The reason nobody really plays Bruiser anymore is because the class was genuinely broken for a quite a while especially in Chaos Descending. Those were awful times to be a Bruiser and a lot of players got burned. However, there were a ton of fixes that happened in BoL. Now there is a 2nd round of fixes in Beta that is going to make Bruiser even better in RoS. The time has come to stop blaming the toolkit and learn to adapt. Bruisers are going to be pretty good shape next expansion. In RoS Monk is still going to be top dog. Then Zerker and then maybe Bruiser being essentially tied with Shadow Knights in terms of power. If we don't get ahead of them we will be right on their heels. That is not a bad place to be in terms of what is optimal.
