Dev Bruiser letter.

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Glynt, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. Corydonn Active Member

    I must thank Quabi for linking me this post haha.

    I quit 4 years ago when the discord server became a place to silence the players/community (Hi Feldon) and the community became insanely toxic around defending the behavior. Bruisers haven't had anyone to give good feedback to the class for a long time. Sometime 4 years ago when things started going downhill for the class with 3-4 broken abilities needing fixes like end line abilities there were a few bruiser players always commenting saying the class is fine and they tank amazing for their top 20 on the server guild and I just couldn't compete with feedback like that.

    I had a developer for another DBG link me the bruiser epic 2.0 being discovered 2-3 months and it was for good reason, Not only is a no moving effect terrible for survival/tanking but it also increases savage assault damage by 20% while monks got a huge super buff to dragonfire that had to be nerfed. Monks also got their regenerating uberward to be groupwide which is just bonkers for tanking and keeping the rest of the group alive through AoEs.

    They also destroyed the bruiser class in pvp nerfing the taunts even more and making drag a 1.5 second taunt that doesn't reposition your target/move them. So have fun losing the only niche the class had. :(
    Lifebane and rutro like this.
  2. rutro Active Member

    Hey Cory...Feign death just one more time for me in Freeport :) Nice to see an old name...:)
  3. Lifebane New Member

    sadly it's been 5 months or so now since this was posted and not a peep from any dev. It really doesn't look like it would be that hard to make meaningful changes to the class.
  4. Corydonn Active Member

    FDing in Freeport was not my strongest moment :p

    Lifebane I would advise writing up and compiling all the feedback you think is needed and poking one of the developers on discord or even emailing kvallee@daybreakgames.com so he can get the feedback to the right person. Try to sum up every problem as clearly as possible and don't just give suggestions like "this ability sucks change it". Try giving alternatives to making the ability good and reasons why.

    One big ability to start with would be the bruiser AoE leap taunt that was moved to a TSO endline, That ability is still broken and could use some alternative use like a peel+rescue instead of the hate list drop that hasn't worked since it was put in the game.
  5. Earar Well-Known Member

    The leap doesn’t matter. Bruiser have enough snaps to keep up ... just we need to be able to keep mobs on us.

    Could first get better AoE range, more damage, more procs on manhandle like they boosted dragon rage, even if it would only give hate on each ability cast .. like they did for monk. Newest dragon rage kept its proc% + new effect proccing all the time. Even without DF, monks can steal mob from some other tanks just with that ability.

    Now it feels bruisers we’re supposed to be offtanks, not main tanks. So snaps seems relevant. But an offtank need to do dps to be worth having. Especially when u see bruiser have positional demage boost. Sucker punch, prestige. But even speccing with that we are way too low.

    Bruisers were supposed also to be burst dps ... so we need that burst. And remive some requirements, like sonic punch min distance requirement. We cannot ever use that CA. And it doesn’t even do enough damage to be worthit.

    And so on and so on ... but i repeat myself
  6. Ghorast Member

    Remember when the game was new and Moorguard himself played a bruiser and class could do decent dps? Good times.
  7. Obano Member

    That was you Corydonn. The writing was on the wall for a long time before that but you were always saying: "Bruisers were fine. Bruisers are great tanks. Bruisers don't need help." That is all you ever said back in the day. Now look at the trainwreck this class has become. It is called Karma Corydonn. It is just a shame so many other innocent players who loved this class became collateral damage.

    A few broken abilities don't matter. The issue is the class is fundamentally broken when they took our strikethrough immunity away. I have screenshots of conversations I had with Xelgad in 2012 saying he was going to nerf Brawlers. That is when Bruisers died. When they nerfed our strikethrough immunity that was the death of the class as far as I am concerned. Nothing else mattered after that. When we had strikethrough immunity we could tank in DPS gear which meant we could hold all the aggro in the world and keep up with Monks and Shadow Knights on the parse. The tanks were pretty well balanced in Age of Discovery but when they took our strikethrough immunity away it broke avoidance tanking on a fundamental level.

    If they gave us back strikethrough immunity it would literally fix everything wrong with this class. We would still have some broken abilities but who cares. We don't need them. We have tonns of abilities that DO work. When I came back I took a look our AA's and just said to myself "none of this matters." What matters is fundamentals. What is fundamental is avoidance tanking and not having our avoidance struckthough. Fix that and you fix bruisers. Don't give strikethrough immunity to monks and everything will be fine.
  8. Corydonn Active Member

    Bruisers were fine when I was saying it back in Destiny of Velious and the following year or so. I was the one who told Xelgad to nerf us at Fan Faire by lowering the duration of tenacity and a few other survival things. I didn't play much by the time they brought out recklessness and the new dumb stances and from what I'm seeing the strikethrough immunity doesn't even really matter because it's stoneskins not giving the stoneskin buff like every other class has being the problem. I doubt content is being designed with over 50% strikethrough anyways and if it is it's super bad design and you should take that up with Gninja designing the raid mobs.

    What was killing us at one point was the avoidance lend bug where mobs would proc their "avoid this attack and take damage" 4 times on us in one swing that I got fixed by posting about it. You are not going to be fine with just strikethrough immunity unless we are getting amazing aggro by dodging attacks because a huge thing in RoK when I played briefly was brawlers not being able to hold aggro until monks got their dragonfire epic. Right there some bruiser should have been jumping on a developer about that imbalance and raising a storm like I always did when bruisers got undercut on something, Hell I even did message a few laughing about how bad the epic 2.0 was and the people currently working there just don't care. :p
  9. Corydonn Active Member

    P.S. I was also probably a bit biased at the time always having pretty good gear and mastered abilities along with knowing the class. I did try to tank most zones in the pvp gear though to keep myself level and see what most bruisers had to deal with in heroics. The point where I stopped playing was where you needed to spend thousands of dollars for ascension abilities to be researched and a few hundred for familiars.

    I just loved the class in how you could always be playing better and doing something better but without my will to spend the cash anymore I just couldn't keep up.
  10. Obano Member

    1. So you damaged the class even worse than I thought. Good job man. They took away our "Shadows" parry ability too. Never ask for nerfs because the devs always overdo it. The nerfs become progressively worse with each new expansion. It is like compounding interest. What starts with a few percent nerf at first become a million percent worse 4 or 5 years down the road.

    2. I am not going to bring up strikethrough to Gninja. Stop giving bad advice. If strikethrough raids got removed that would buff every tank and leave us even worse off. Bruisers are supposed to be avoidance tanks. That is our niche. But we cannot tank if we get struckthrough all the time. Give strikethrough immunity to Bruisers and we would be great again.

    Make Bruisers Great Again. You stay out of this Corydonn. I got this now.
  11. Lifebane New Member

    another week and no response. Tried emailing as well. At this point, Bruiser sightings in game are comparable to bigfoot sightings.
  12. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    TFW you remember that bruiser's have one of the highest passive avoidance in game right now, but dev's don't understand that guaranteed avoidance is > passive.
  13. Pantherist New Member

    Just add a 0 to the end of Void Strike and Bruiser would be fine.
  14. Obano Member

    Doubt that would really help much.

    How about bringing back the effect of the mythical cloak? This was indispensable back in the back in the day. Lower the recast of wildbeatting to 5 seconds and then we would be fine. Of course strikethrough immunity is what bruisers really need right now.

    [IMG]
  15. Earar Well-Known Member

    What bruiser needs is to be on par with monks damage wise
  16. Obano Member

    I don't care what Monks can do. This isn't about class envy. If Monks want to become a DPS class then that is on them. I want Bruisers to be capable tanks that can both survive and hold aggro off of anything. Strike through immunity + fast reuse "Wild Beating" would do wonders to bring Bruisers back to the paramount.
  17. Obano Member

    Now this should really show the state of things. This mythical defensive stance has existed for 18 months and I only just discovered it on one of the most highly populated servers. If you want to play Bruiser seriously you got to have this. Yet It is only the second one discovered worldwide according to EQ2wire. As I keep saying. Something has to be done to improve the Bruiser. Give us back our strikethrough immunity. Bruisers are supposed to be avoidance kings. That is a our niche. Give people a reason to play the class and people will play it.

    [IMG]
  18. Obano Member

    The reason Bruisers are terrible right now is we essentially have 0% avoidance in Chaos Descending group content. Only time attacks can be dodged is when Epic 1.0 or tag team is used. Every fight is a mitigation and resist fight. Since we have less mitigation than other takes this makes us the worst tank as far damage absorption goes. Avoidance plays zero part in current mechanics which means Bruisers are essentially screwed. These are some zone wide parses on incoming damage. Notice the to hit rate:

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    Another thing I have noticed is closed mind does NOT even work half the time. They want us to use these Stun and Stifle immunity runes that every class has access too. They basically took away one of our class defining abilities, turned it into an adornment, and made it available to everyone. This is why it feels like Bruisers don't even exist in this expansion.

    Number 1: They need to give us back our strikethough immunity.

    Number 2: Fix closed mind and make it good until canceled like the runes.
  19. Earar Well-Known Member

    and stone deaf works ?
    is it remotely useful ?

    also they could change soak hit so we can use it on ourself, maybe make bodyguard of stone stoneskin being not only physical SS

    and martial retaliation ... it increases mitigation and riposte ... a bit useless nowadays. But u want impenetrable will .. well I guess u still want it .. so u are obliged to go left side
  20. Obano Member

    Stone deaf still works but the 3 triggers basically get eaten up almost instantly. Notice some of the "min hits" are zero. That is from stone deaf. Allowing us to cast "soak hit" on ourselves wouldn't change much. It would block 1 hit out of hundreds that we have to absorb.

    What is going on is the devs have been trying to force us to use "Rock skin" for years now. That is why left side prestige resets the reuse of rock skin. Maybe in some spreadsheet it works mathematically BUT it does not work in the real world. Movement speed is required to effectively tank.

    Back in Sentinels Fate and Velious we used to have strikethrough immunity on our defensive stance. That is when Bruisers were awesome tanks. Then they took it away because Monks had it too and Monks were over powered being strikethrough immune. Both brawlers got nerfed but it hit us harder and basically ruined the class. I feel like a broken record saying this but we need our strikethough immunity back.

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