Rahatmattata wrote: I do not expect you read my post we agree on the 2hdrs. You point-of-view is simple you dislike paladins and are jelious of there ablities. I do not feel it proper to attack someone for different opinions as you do; thus, debate with you is fruitless or pointless as it were. Is it your method to attack someone when you cannot make a logical arguement? Boli, I was expecting if anyone could make that 2k mark on HPS it would yourself or Jeal. I know im fairly certain if possible it is under controled situations, and very very rare happening. It appears any time we ask for something to be usefull we must sacrifice something we already have, but did we get anything in return for the loss of critical heals? Were we not asked specifically that same question, "why do you think you should get something for losing something?" Always the arguement something must be lost for something to be gained. That type of thinking is what got guardians in the sad shape they where in only a few months ago. Loxosceles Reclusa, Your 2hder point is very valid. Until recently 2hder has been useless. What is to say another 2 expansions and we will back to sword and board. However a more scaling version of the Knight's stance would be interesting maybe 25% for 1hd 10 to 20% for 2hders. At any rate the arguements against Knight's stance tend to come from guards who of all the tanks have the lowest dps; which probably is a result of 'why can't I do that too?" type thinking.
Samoux@Crushbone wrote: I think you'll find our views on 2 handers are extremely different. Yes a paladin should have to use a 2 hander to do dps, but no they shouldn't get some special bonus while using 2 handers. They should basically balance knight's stance like they did with warrior double attack forcing crusaders to use a 2 hander if they want to dps. I feel if paladins get buffed in any way, there needs to be some equal nerfing for balance reasons. If I was jealous of paladins, I would simply roll one and be level 90 in a couple weeks champ. Basically, I just said the same damn thing I said before using more words. I hope you're satisfied now.
Rahatmattata wrote: If i remember rightly the warriors dbl attack used to be linked to using a buckler for an added dps boost, then when myths came along guardians had a nice little buff that allowed them to get the dbl attack bonus whilst using tower shields. The devs then changed the aa trees so warriors gained the dbl attack regardless of shield or no shield equiped and finally gave crusaders Knights Stance as part of TSO aa setup. In a couple months time we've got a new expansion with more aa's available which will probably mean new aa's. Maybe the devs will finally pull KS out of TSO or change it to 2 handers only or maybe they'll just give a similar aa to guardians so they can quit moaning about it and then start to moan about another one of our buffs they want removed from us and given to them?
Rahatmattata wrote: I must really be getting under your skin, because you keep hurly coated insult like "champ" and "kid." No, your idea is you want to break down another class you do not want anything more than someone else's class they enjoy to be taken down so you feel some small victory in your little world. Good luck with that. You betray yourself with these weak arguement Boli and many others and shed light on constantly, so your arguement bear no fruit. A opinion does not have to entirely be based in something, but your opinion seems to be NERF paladins more because im not satisfied yet. Whats next after Knight's stance? Aura of Leadership? Another Holy Ground nerf? I do not see the reasoning behind nerf requests. Maybe just playing better and learning to overcome my class's weaknesses is my game, and your is nerf the other guy till they are "in your eyes" equal.
Unfortunatly, the current evidence is that you are HealaDPSadins. Doing 10K+ DPS AND doing 2K+ HPS while TANKING 8-10 mobs including a named while the healer is dead (and not needed to res the healer I might add) is just flat rediculious. I have Stonewill items. I have lifetap items. I never, ever, never, absolulty never get 2K HPS even with 20 mobs hitting me on my Guardian. And for me to break 10K DPS I have to have an illuionist with the AoE attack/Flurry buff and have a dirge for the DPS mod buff.. and then if I get 20 no arrows or down arrows and people that can kill the group AoE fast then I can do maybe do 15K if I'm lucky. I can easily break 10K in that situation but a Paladin would be doing 25K or better. Just for clarification, I really hate nerfs. But, any reasonable person has to look at facts and scratch their head.
Wasuna wrote: The is one case where pallys (or to that matter SKs and zerkers) can gain insane HPS, (cella) but outside that since the heal nerf I have never gotten above 900hps and that's with 4 stonewill items and spamming my ward for all its worth; this is a case of someone seeing a fluke parse and inflating it beyond what is normally capable in order to get further decreases to a class. Its like asking for nerfs after linking the palace fight with all the books where the fighter is awarded the damage for damaging the name. As for your fighter DPS, we are all limited by buffs - its a running joke in my guild how slow I solo on my pally; I can as all plate fighters can with equiping enough lifetap/Stonewill items you can pretty much autoattack blue and green heriocs down - it just takes a very long long time. I finally got around to soloing library a couple of days ago... entire zone took me about 4 hours and the final named took me 40min to get him down to 86% by which time I had to ask for help to dps the books down. no doubt everyone will shot nerf nerf nerf... yes I as able to solo that place... *just* but its a: a *really* easy zone b: I'm ****** out with gear and c: took me HOURS to do; during which time I could have done it 10 times with various toons, in a group, not died, gotten more plat and more chances of masters just for the record - all legendary drops and I couldn't kill chest mob.
Boli32 wrote: Maybe before the crit nerf, SOE should have looked at a gear nerf (that is jest of course). It has always been the biggest issue where balance is concern. Gear tends to multiply any other poor design choices they make as far as: AA, class ability, concept. Only after adding AA like Knight's stance or combining Criticals do we see an understanding of how these might be improperly scaling. This is not entirely due to the current dev's lack of foresight, but is related to the changing game dynamic.
Costa@Nagafen wrote: The part you forgot is the nice fat nerf that reduced the double attack from 60% to 25%, and yanking out the 8% riposte uncontested avoidance. Kinda like nerfing knight's stance to 10%, but removing the shield requirement. Yay?
Rahatmattata wrote: Zerkers loved that change. It allowed us to finally DW and tank w/o such a high DA item requirement. The knight's stance 10% with no shield requirement would be nice for us as well. Do not get me wrong I would not be advocating this, but if thats the worst that happend to Knight's stance I would consider it a buff.
Samoux@Crushbone wrote: Yea, it was a great change for zerkers that never had to tank anything that hits hard.
Rahatmattata wrote: I would not go that far; Could tank every group zone DW, and many raids. Sword/board will always be needed on hardest stuff. As it where 100% DA was easy to attain even with the changes to shield AA.
Well 17 pages of debate and not even a hint of a fix comming from SOE. You have broken a class Paladins were always meant to be able to heal and now we cant. So you either have to alter the class description quote The epitome of honor and valor, Paladins excel in martial combat while employing divine magic to enhance their abilities and strike down their enemies. By invoking both protective and healing magic, the Paladin can often survive battles that would crumble those of lesser resolve. Unquote or you have to fix the damage you have done. Its really simple we dont do what it says on the tin anymore anyone fancy a lawsuit under the Trade Descriptions Act.
Too bad Smokejumper did not fix one of the major issues with SoE (lack of communication on where the classes are going/vision of the game/etc/etc). They do a real good job of leaving their customers in the dark, which clearly is not a very good business practice. Look at how many people jumped ship from Oracle/Sun because nothing was heard. Anyways, I am displeased with this nerf. There could of been better ways to handle it, but of course, the crudest solution was taken. May the future bring us brighter and better days.
Holy Ground prenerf and heals still critting would make our class gain its place what it is meant for, but I guess break things are SoEs speciality.
I prefer the new holy ground tbh.. adds flavour to our spell rotation. Anyways.. even the new holy ground sitll gets 10 /feedbacks per second trying to get it nerfed :/
