just so its clear.. 90s cool downs on heals are unacceptable no matter how much the heal is increased... thats just overkill.. only heals that should be in that range are sacrament and lay on hands
I just took 90s as a number given I expected something similar from the devs and put it on a similar timer to "Stonewall" - but if its on a similar timer to said spell it should naturally be of decent power at stopping spike damage. If you are simply just increasing the heal amount 20-30s will be much more inline. With additional benefits (benefits which last a duration perhaps small regen/ward/stoneskin etc) you can discus a longer recast time; but I guess we just have to see what tibbits you throw us.
Now hold up... back before crits even existed... pallies could still solo... just because they took away your crit heals doesnt make a huge impact and that does not take away the definition of a pally.. .you shouldnt be able to crit heals cause thats not what your class is... you crit melee and spell. the reason a healer can crit melee is because that wouldnt seem correct. granted the crit heals did help. but i mean you guys sit there and think its the end of the world. brigs donts even complain this much and their debuffs in a raid are useless. all im tryin to say is. you guys complaining about it isnt gonna change anything. get over it. soe is lacking. they see some people complaining in a forum so they nerf that class. yes i do agree soe has some major downfalls ever since the developers from before desert of flames came out left. but im sure they will figure out they messed up. let it ride out. its not like all of you lost your raid spots. and bs you cant solo. any class can solo just play your class right. classes arent made to solo ^^^'s.
Who is talking about soloing? we're discussing ability to deal with spike damage which was mainly our heals and now ability to heal 3-4k of our health is very lack luster when you have a health 30k+
You forget in TSO we had 50%+ heal crit, and our HP was 15k not 25k .. so a 3-5k crit heal in TSO was MUCH MUCH more beneficial to us than it is now. That is the issue. Now we are at worse-than-tso heals, and our hp is much greater.
Maielle@Antonia Bayle wrote: Don't forget your supposed to completely regear for potency too. So, readjust playstyle, check, re-select aas, check, re-gear, check, wait 3 months, redo it all again Not to mention the fact that I had specifically mastered heals, before some of my dps abilities, which now sucks. Grr, soe really annoyed me this time, almost as much as what they did to my illy.
Why the hell do Beserkers have heals anyway? What logical sense does that make, in a historic sense, or in any other sense? Why not just take away that op garbage in stead of messing with our class SO BAD? AoE going from (master - max useful healing aa spec) 7500 to 4000 (raid) and 5500 to 3000 (group) is a bloddy joke. We cant heal ourselves anymore, cant heal our group anymore, and do not have the raw stoneskins of other fighters. No one cares that we "can" give our group 8% potency. At least SK's and Zerks are still (for whatever reason) the Dev's little darlings. Pathetic. P.S. Thanks alot !! we cant use Holy Ground anymore now that we are back in the throw-off group because our worthless Zerkers/Guards cannot hold agro in any out-of-encounter-fight... Because really what Pali wanted to be able to use their #1 aoe dps spell anyway?
My suggestions: Disclaimer: all healing abilities can once again crit, if you think its too much - cut the raw numbers by a third (thats 33% and NOT 90% or so - jfyi....) Demonstration of Fate: decrease casting time Holy Aid: maybe increase recast to 10-12secs or so Prayer of Healing: increase recast to 40-50secs, heal-over-time (noticable!) + a medium reactive healproc for each groupmember with 3 triggers if they land a successful attack (100% procchance) This is supposed to help groups survive aes, especially players who take so much damage the next /tick would kill them - but they have to do something for it to help heal - doing damage - if the hot-component isnt enough for them to survive, that is. Devout Sacrament: decrease casting time and make it uninterruptable, B*I*G reactive heal with 5 triggers + a very B*I*G ward at the beginning and at termination of it - should be our clicky for "oh s*** situations" aka spikedamage. Lay on Hands: light side of shadowknights bloodletter - drains a percentage-based amount of mana from the group and converts it into a 2 trigger stoneskin for the paladin if he drops under 33% health Divine Favor: a regenerative aura surrounding the target of the spell with auto-cure all detrimental effects every 6seconds for a total time of 30 seconds - reducing incoming damage by 25% and increasing incoming heals and wards on this target by 25% as well - oh.......and remove detrimental effects, no clue why they were there in the first place... And it was intentional to swap names between Lay on hands and divine favor, since if someone gets divine aid you should see it with a shimmering glow around him - and lay on hands on the good side sounds pretty much perfect for a similar ability like bloodletter on the bad side.
i love you irgin.. but lets try to stay focused on what we need.. not what we want in our wildest tanking dragon dreams..
Given the healing nerf, followed by the mit changes the least soe could do is completely over compensate when the redress the balance... so I'm with Irgin : Shoot for the moon people !
Though to be fair to Boli a mount that farts fire would be cool... can it be a dragon? Thus change our lvl 20 fluff mount for: a flying mount that farts and breaths fire! Now that would rock!
Boli32 wrote: dont forget the snare spell invisability and a ranged nuclaer attack! http://www.clichequest.com/index.php?pos=55
Just want to throw my 2 cents into this conversation. For those who would like to see their healing spells into % based you have to remember / consider this. % based spells can only go so high befor you have to cap them off. Perfect example is our amends. If you did make the heals say 20% of our health, than that heal prob would cap there and recieve no further upgrade. I agree something needs to be done but % based healing is not really the answer IMO (except lay hands). Also having them on a reuse of 30 - 60 seconds is OBSERD unless your going to overpower the health amount to them. My particular proposal (taking some ideas that others have had as well). 1 - Lay hands Master 1 75% health. now i know that doesnt seem like enough but it is still affected by potency so with enough pot you should easily have it 80%+. This is fine because really because it almost becomes a complete heal (you usually cast it when your 10-20% health so that puts you at 90-100% health) This would be the last upgrade for the spell this lvl. Previous master 1's would cap out at a lower %. Either that or remove all lower Lay hands and just have this the one and only lay hands (recieved at the lowest level we get lay hands that is). App 1 35% App 3 45% Adept 1 55% Adept 3 65% Master 1 75%. for possible progression through the ranks. 2 - Divine Favor Just increase the heal % please. W/o the red adorn make it 45 - 50% w/ the red adorn 65 - 70% AT LEAST. Compared to the SK this is needed. As it stands a SK can get 3 triggers of bloodletter. Sure they need 2 other people for it to work but that only affects their soloing and they have FD for that. While we get it to heal us for 53% with potency *woo*. 3 - Demonstration of Faith Increase the heal amount by 1.5 times what it is now. This makes it about a 6k ward which brings it back in line pre nerf. To compensate sure make it a 20 second reuse instead of the 15 that it is now. This over time just SLIGHTLY increases the heal amount of it. That is over 60 seconds it will ward you for 18k vs what it is now of over 60 seconds warding you for 16k. However by increasing the ward to 6k now it helps offset a bit more spike damage. without overpowering it. 4 - Holy Aid Either turn this into a HOT completely or add a HOT component to it. The HOT should be able to heal say over 4 (or 2) seconds with 4 ticks at 500 - 800 each or something. This would increase the heal by 2000 - 3200 health putting it once again at about the same health it was pre nerf. Again as compensation you can increase the recast of it to about 7.5 (or 7 seconds would make me happier) seconds as opposed to the 5 seconds it is now. Over the course of 15 seconds it would then heal between 12 - 15k versus what it is now at 12 - 13.5k. But once again it helps greatly with the spike damage while keeping it in sort of line with what its healing for now HPS wise. Personally i would like it NOT to become a full HOT because between ticks your healers could easily heal you up to full and so the extra ticks are wasted. However a heal + HOT is still helpful. If not than increase the heal amount out right. 5 - Devout Sacrament Add a 5k or 6k ward to it and increase the recast to 2 mins instead of 1 min 30 seconds. This will at at least a bit more use to the spell. As it is it doesnt heal for nearly enough. 6 - Prayer of Healing Add a similar HOT component to it as Holy aid. However keep the recast the same, this is supposed to help the group out and as it is it does not heal for enough any more. If you add a big enough HOT to it though then i guess you can increase the recast to 10 seconds. But thats only if the heals recieved by it will be big enough (over 1.5 times what it is now). As for the casting time of each of these. for 4, 5, 6 (from numbers above) they each have same casting time now. Drop their casting time to 0.75 seconds (this would then allow the aa for holy aid and prayer to reduce the casting time to 0.25 seconds). And drop #3 to 1 second cast time. OR if you dont reduce the casting time than make it so that each of the spells are uninteruptable. PLEASE reduce / remove the power cost for lay hands. This is a major gripe considering harm touch for SK's which does damage and heals is 0 power. Just reduce it by half at least 400 power is WAY to much that is almost 5% power for an emergancy spell. THAT is obsurd.
previous poster has some solid ideas.. however the increased reuse fast cast/uninterruptable higher heal amount is still the best idea.. using defensive abillities when you actually need them in a hasty manner is what being a tank is all about.. anyways just wanted to throw in another gripe the tap abilities associated with holy circle/faith strike/faithful cry not critting.. is almost ludicrous.... these heals were marginal at BEST prior to the crit nerf... honestly they are less than nothing now... a 600hp heal on faith strike.... c'mon... faithful cry was doing 2000 or so a pop per tick.. its a TSO ENDLINE it should be pretty good at ALL facets of the ability... let these small but amazingly useless abilities crit again... and please let us know what you're doing with the heals give us some feedback... i'm dying here raiding gimped is just not fun :/
Jeal@Unrest wrote: No kidding, tanking RT 3 rune last night and we all know how bad those spikes can get; I tried my best but died an unacceptable amount of times. Irony is the necro, zerker and SK who were also in the raid outhealed the paladin (me); and I was actively TRYING to cast my heals to keep on top of the hits.
Jeal@Unrest wrote: Unfortunatly they would never make those critable again. I did forget to mention faithful cry in the last post that heal needs to be just straight increased to bring it in line to what it previously was W/O changing the reuse / cast / etc. The reason i say that these would never be critable again is because of SK's. Each of the SK's abilities that have a heal tap portion on them have also had that heal criting removed. So their damage can crit but the heal portion of their taps dont crit. So if you were to make the paladins tap ones crit the SK's would cry bloody murder. *Edit* also in my post i do agree with the increase in reuse and increase in either cast speed or make it uninteruptable. I was just arguing against a 30 second reuse or so on our main heal. You can increase the heal amount and still keep the reuse reasonable (10 seconds or under ... 20 seconds and under for ward) while increasing the heal to bring it back in line to what it previously was w/o drastically increasing our haling over time potential. I understand that other tank classes can out heal us and that is agrivating, but SOE is SOE so one can only argue for so much to help out.
I think it's because on the Extended Live server, you can buy a heal potion that restores 100% of HP via SC. As well as a power version.
I'm really glad everybody is working hard at coming up with good solutions. My pally is just a solo alt who I quite like, and since I don't have any group tank experience yet (might chance once I get to 90, I'm at 87 right now) I'll keep my mouth shut on what should be done. I do want to add two comments of my own, though: 1. Not having your spells crit when everything else crits on every other class you play is just plain disappointing. It's a constant reminder to see those small numbers fly up, like an annoying monkey is in the corner saying "who's not critting! Neener neener!" Yes, it's stupid, but I miss the big font for my heals. I'd almost rather see a fake big number, especially after working hard on AAs and itemization to get that 100% crit whether I'm in tanking or DPS mode. 2. Since we have to stop what we're doing to heal and actually cast a heal spell, this makes #1 even more rankling to me. Ooh, I love taking time to cast tiny font heal spells. Let's not crit! Let's do it three times in a row! Weee! All done now, just thought I'd add a little font size gripe as an addendum to the more important conversations going on.
