Could really go for a new TLE

Say what you want - but the above is a fact! Not saying there aren't some cool things from SF and beyond but the last 2 TLE servers have done the same thing. They start to die around DOV. I logged in recently and the general chat was DEAD. I've played on every TLE server thus far - the experience from vanilla through ROK/TSO is wonderful. I can't tell you how many players I have played with where this wasn't the general consensus. People just simply LIKE IT. I've heard people say - I'm not going through all that again. Why? I'd do it again - that's the best state(s) of the game. Anything beyond SF becomes a over-inflated stat-mechanic mess; currency as well. The game starts to lose sense. The fresh TLEs are also cash cows for DBG. People are buying XP pots, house items, etc...

New TLEs WORK! Its already been proven!

EQ1 did a thing when they released a new progression server, where one was super fast progression and the other was slower progression. Maybe EQ2 should try that next go around, so the folks who are "been there done that" can pound their way through, and the "smell the roses" crowd can poke their way through Classic-RoK at their leisure without irritating each other.

The mess of FG and Kaladim did it for me. I wouldn't do another TLE if Daybreak paid ME.

LOL, Stormhold was the biggest mess of all. I don't know how they can consistently fail so badly at the concept of a progression server.

What if there IS no cure? What if most of us are chasing that delicious high we had for years when EQ2 first came out? There's just no finding that again, and there's nothing DBG can do for us.

For me it's just down to the determination to compromise. I love Antonica the most because that's where I spent SO much time back in the day, well, Antonica and the zones right off of it (but I hate Thundering Steppes with a passion). I want to go back, and the only way back to where Antonica matters again is a new TLE.

But it's not really the same. Everything has changed around EQ2. I'm not the same person that I was then. I'm glad to come back every few years to work through a TLE, but I know I'm not going to find what I'm really looking for. I can't blame DBG for that.

No company can bring back that feeling of just starting out with everything new and everyone excited, but a new TLE is the closest thing there is. Enough already. I don't want to do another one. I think I just have to let it go.

I don't want to think to much about it , well ,it took me till now to understand that every time we get to DoV it get's hectic ,
people begin to fight , disagree and so on .
I mean there is not really anything wrong with the zones , but being in a raid becomes a chore , when it was fun before .
Raid teams that had fun together making jokes wile they wiped the 3rd time laughing about the fool who fell of the walkway the second time , now they grind their teeth and growl at you .

It does not help , that most people already know this zones very well , after all they did it the first time and for 12 months , now they are bored after only 4 .
Some life did return to Kaladim after we were given the long awaited Beast Lord and I know of some people who tried the class for the first time , and others give it another chance .
So I will try my best to get as much out of this as I can , and than it's see you on the next server ( maybe ).

LOL yeah you just might find me still chasing that high, in the back of my mind still wanting to be terrified the first time that named slime flies at me from off the chessboard in Stormhold, still freaking out when a room full of skellies swarms me, cackling at the top of their non-existent lungs, and the horrors that await me down in the bowels of that place. It's one hell of a game, EQ2 is, even now. Too bad you can experience it for the first time only once!!

I know we can't reasonably expect a true classic experience from a TLE, as much as I'd love one, but I don't think it's too much to ask for proper game balance and itemization that makes sense from the beginning. Content has always had a tendency to either be drastically too easy or jacked beyond reason, only to reward you with an item that makes no sense.

Doesn't matter what the perfect formula is. Time and time again they get our $$

Well as soon as they start a fresh TLP that is not pvp...I will be first in line to buy krono and start a new toon!

lol had that omg a named pop on top of my wiz,
good scared' feels' last week!
We were duo wiz & monk questing in nek forest!
Monk jumps in saves wiz & starts to beat down the orange named.
Then the named starts to run away??, we chase-
resists root, gets away wtf ??
Then I remember this is pvp server.....
They're rare but this server has random named pops!


recent lvl 70 pvp where the pvp is most frequent.

The fear of another TLE server starting up next year is making me pause when I think of sinking more time and effort into this one. Oh, the ravages of existential toon angst! It's just too much.

Im on the side that really want to see Kaladim through ToV. Some take it further and wish for a replay all the way to KA. The reasons people have to continue the progress vary, but theres still enough players on Kaladim to justify its continuation.
And one thing thats clear from reading parts of this thread is theres no consensus of what a dead server looks like. Theres posts from early spring this year saying its dead. WHAAA?! There was a steady stream of players dripping in still, and the server recovered just fine from the frst exudous when the armorsets was removed.
Guilds where still forming and sniping players from eachother, people stil rolled new toons to match the current meta. Its was easy 3x as active as eg Skyfire
I agree: RoK is probably the best expansion of them all, - in some areas. But the heroic combat is faceroll, theres no hardmode content and most raids go from headache to walkover as people gets their epic done. And it touches what i think is a part of the reason DoV is last stop for many. When people can see the end then theres just no reason to grind 60h for 1 item, no reason to throw days of grouping into the hunt for 1 adornment.
That is on top DoV being grindy af, based on a mediocre questline and people experiencing combat where they have to use temps and proper positioning for the very first time. Its unforgiving in nature and the end is near.. why even bother??
But it was clear from talks with guildies and chat in general that a lot actually wanted to see ToV. Some for the first time.

DoV has become the bane of eq2tle. And something should be done. But i dont agree the solution is to never go there at all. Theres ways to make DoV at least tolerable. Make it less grindy, dont make all turqs from previous obsolete over night, shorten it a bit. With hunters going from a 20-30min run for all 4 targets during RoK, to apx 1h for just one kill, it shouldnt come as a surprise that this is where a lot could be gained in terms of the players will to continue. Reduce the number of hunteritems a player can wear from 2 to 1 and buff the stats accordingly. If i have to run forced zones for 30-50h then it better be worth it.I dont think Ive heard one single player say they like hunters. They like the gear and they want to stay relevant in the grp/raid, so people do it even if they have to sit LFG for hours
Yes, it doesnt take that long now, but it did for the first hunterruns. Ruduce the faction needed to buy from vendors. 40k is just too much when you need it 4 places, 6 if we include the TS. And it doesnt get better that theres no heirloom token for half of them, If I grind it out on a mage then i cant buy all the gear for my fighter, its not even visible.
Give us faction tokens for all factions, reduce the amount needed all the way down to 20k, remove the limits for how many pqs you can run pr day on each toon. And some might laugh, but this is actually a serious part of it; the gear is too expensive. 10pp is a joke to some, but as its pointed out alrdy; there was a lot of botting on kaladim, and most of them earned the majority of all the plats in rotation on the server.
Automatic price regulations on broker, crafting bots to make 1000s and 1000s of combines, harvestbots to farm 200 rares in one sitting, powerlvlers, botted mana farming, botted raids/SLRs was way too visible and it prevented themajority of the regular players from making a decent living. - (They also kept the price of mats somewhat down, so it wasnt an all loss. But if the choice was there then they should be hardwarebanned)
- We got to DoV and the majority was stil broke, but now facing a real plat-cost just to get the basics sorted. Cut the price of faction gear in half. And make sure theres logic behind the gearprogression. The POT adornments from SF was a 2.% and 5 % boost yellow/red respectively, the yellow POT from DoV is 2 %, the red 3 %.. Go figure. Yes, we got CB. And most classes could increase dps by selling 5 % POT for 3 % CB. But many couldnt. If you didnt have enough seals from SF then you were dead in the water in terms of min/maxing
And its just poor gamedesign when gearprogression go backwards as the toon go forward.
The mere talk of a new TLE is probably the biggest killer of them all. The previous TLEs folded as if they were on timer, so people naturally expect it to happen again here - Why bother investing factiongrind to buy expensive gear you cant use for all toons? Why bother investing in hunterrun when its no fun and you cant gear up alts with it? When you can expect to use it a month at most? Why even bother trying when the zones are too hard?(not my word, the combat is my main reason to keep playing now) Why try to get new adornments when the drops are so rare? Ive seen 3 drops so far. And the botters sold em for apx 2kr each for the first sets that reached broker.
We need 6 for armorset, 6 for jewelry, 3 for weaps, and 3 for cloak/neck waist..are you effing me? let people use old adorns wich naturally will be of lesser quality than the current.(provided the gearprogression return to logic) But they dont have to get headache over not having any, the difference in dps on a decked hm toon and a casual is smaller and people will be less hesitant to pq,. Theres players who have downright stopped running pqs because they think some players sux if they dont know the basics like positioning and the front side of the mob may hurt. Increase the difficulty of previous zones by giving more mobs Rampage. I dont recal seeing that on heroic since Unrest, But its needed to build simple routines like spinning the mob- Contrary to the beliefs of many; TLE isnt a bunch of pros. There are some, but theres just as many who try the game for the first time, or people who havnt played for years, whos playing a tank for the first time. And when they get to DoV and encounter trashmobs that can oneshot from 20m rangewith autoattack then they have no clue what to do about it. Teach people to stay rang if possible, teach tank to spin the mob and how to pull a pile properly. A lot just run throug the zone and start bashing as if they had to do the killing, with no consideration to the circle around them. A circle that will have some of the mobs facing grp from a few m range. Lower the dmg of mob autoattack in DoV. It was apx 45k-47k iirc at launch, when most people stil had 30k hp. The concept of increasing the HPs is stil foreign to most non-tank, non-raiders. Add max hpas stat to more Thurg items, or even better; remove the need for max hp gear for other than tanks. Max hp is a stupid way to regulate the difficulty outside raids, and theres still players with less than 40k hp this far into an expack.
People have to understand the importance of positioning, the tanks have to learn they cant run into a pile but rather pull the mobs "properly" - Rampage is a great teacher for that, and if the mobs have an additional buff that increase dmg/hp with the number of other mobs then the tanks have to think when they pull, people have to think when they position themself, and they have to respect the tank is doing the pull. It was a culture shock for many when they came to Kael for the first time(perhaps first time in a decade) -

The rare drop prime materials for crafted stuff was good for charms and roughly speaking that was it. Yes, a ring here, a belt there for new alts or until you got the faction done. But, in coarse terms, they were good for charms and thats it. Release AoD with all there is to it, or at least the apprentices/collosal reactant from day one. People can use the reactants to bypass the faction they dont want, ALL crafters gets a chance of making some decent plat or get a (perhaps) BiS item without competing with botters, and all zones is relevant with or without hunters, the BiS food gets cheap enough that all can afford to use it. The players gets used to loggin in and use apprentices, and the promise of new recipes with SS could possibly be a reason to stay. But that require the knowledge and love for it is spread out to all from as early a stage as possible.
Release SS as the midcontent it is. Drunder should be open from d1.
Give a carrot for CoE. While i still agree the arguably best expack was RoK, ill never agree it only gets worse from there. DoV was made in a time where noone knew if the game would continue, and it show. But CoE combat is actually decent+ and its much better than DoV. The combat difficulty is toned down a bit, but the scripts are getting intersting and not exclusive aimed at the tank moving here or swapping there. All players have a role, and this gets even more inclusive in ToV.
I think. hands down, that ToV have some of the best combatscripts, both heroic and raid. The heroic is so good that it actually teach people to raid in a somewhat relaxed setting. CoE questline is coherrant and the reward from the sigline is flipping awesome. Theres herloom keys available. Theres mounts and ethereal necks to farm. Theres raidgear that doesnt shine outside raids, so non-raiders isnt left behind when it comes to grouping(buffs that increase with the number of players in grp/raid), and theres a new class once again. - a new class is a positive addition for most. Kaladim is now full of BLs.
CoE have the channeler, the upgraded harvestpony. Its overall just a really good expack. Not as good as RoK. But the thing with best is, it doesnt make all other thing bad. its just that "best" is by definition a label you cant smack on everything. Once its used then its gone. I dont know what the carrot should be, but its obvious a lot of players needs a reason to stay.
Mebbi play with the HQ rewards? Of all the HQ rewards thats also available on live, only 3 of them is worth anything: 2 bags and a deathsave. Perhaps give players who upgrade the pony a harvestbag similar but smaller to the one on live. Smaller because then its still worth getting the "real" one on live if you get to that part. Perhaps look at the clicky cloak from the sigline and mess about with that? Make it scale to live, or perhaps give the clicky effect fervor when on live? TLE players are now so far behind live and all the preorder boni that its impossible to catch up, even if you pull out the big wallet. The clickycloak could help mitigate that, and it would give people who play live a reason to try a TLE. This would ofcus make the gap even bigger, but it would only affect the very most dedicated live players, and if theyre stil on TLEs at this point then they kinda deserves it.

We have to get through DoV. Not so much because of this TLE. But we HAVE TO remove the stigma before a new TLE is relevant. Otherwise ALL future TLEs will be dead on arrival. Theres no joy in knowing when the game is over, and as other pointed out, the doomsayers create a selffulfulling prophecy. Why bother continue when we know its dead alrdy??

Do same for ToV - and perhaps jack the rewards up even further. ToV have the best combat in game, and i smile everytime people points at the older expacks when they pick their favorite. I smile because many of them simply dont have a proper foundation to base their opinion on. To me the combat is the important part. Questing is fun and I love to be able to craft stuff myself. But at the end of the day; the zones is what matters to me.Thats why i like DoV.
And all who left during DoV have never seen it. They dont know how much theyre missing out on, so they see no reason to keep playing.
Cut DoV to 2 months. 3 at most. Make the CoE rewards worth something on live and crank the volume up to 10 for ToV when it comes to "transcending rewards" - Peeps who makes it through all the way to that is the ones who keeps a positive vibe when the chat comes to; "how long does this tle have left?"

ohwow. walls.. my signature. It wasnt supposed to be a list of suggestions, but thats what it ended up as.
Long story short. Theres plenty of reason why people are leaving the tle now. DoV is initself one of them. Reduce that(dont remove it) period, make it less grindy, more rewarding, less forced, more versatile, less focused, more futureproof.

We dont need a new TLE this year. People who left now is in many cases also people who have used the term burned out about themelf. Give them a natural break. Give them something to look forward to. Sometimes the suspension is the better part of something. We have to see this TLE at least to CoE.
If for nothing else, then to remove the stigma..

That is an impressive wall of text.

o my , that's the problem with such extensive texts , I won't even bother read through it .

I need a TL/DR of this - Way to much text

I quit reading after the first line when he said something about someone wanting Kunark Ascending.

Why am I not surprised??

- some people rather be wrong for 10 years than putting in a bit of effort when reading

I'll be 2nd.

I heard someone in chat saying there will be a new TLE in the spring? If this is true why even have AoM come out in January?