Update from Moorgard 01-07-2005 09:35 AM "I thought berserkers would like to know that the change to Bloodlust will be corrected in a hotfix scheduled for this weekend. It will no longer be limited to a single proc before fading. Sorry for the confusion." -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello fellow Berserkers, Before the patch today, i knew the bloodlust was up for some change. I wanted to have real numbers to see what differed before/after the patch. To start, im a level 38 Berserker on Runnyeye. I went to Varsoon before patch, and killed two Clay Golems, both level 32. I buffed myself with all buffs, except focus rage (to random to get a reliable DPS count) Now you will also notice i did not use specials during the fight, because i wanted to see how my base-damage was affected from the upcoming bloodlust changes. Pre-patch: Fight 1) Damage done total by me: 7142 Time: 2:37 DPS: 45.49 Damage taken: 707 Fight 2) Damage done total by me: 7131 Time: 2:21 DPS: 50.57 Damage taken: 195 Post-patch Fight 1) Damage done total by me: 7180 Time: 03:56 DPS: 30.42 Damage taken: 1150 Note: Post-patch fight, since bloodlust only lasted 3 minutes, i had to rebuff it during fight (could have lost 1 hit there). It did not proc berserk during the first 3 minutes, but procced once when the mob was at approximately 5-10% health (second bloodlust cast during fight). Going from 45-50 DPS to 30 DPS is a decrease of almost 40% pure base damage. This is to much IMHO. I chose berserker because i wanted to be "berserker", one who "berserks". I always loved seeing that red glow pop off during fights.. Not sure how i will feel about my character now that i will only see it so less often. Why did you completely remove bloodlust? Better fix (constructive) Remove ALL taunt capabilities from Bloodlust (I can live with guardians out-taunting us) Instead of making Bloodlust proc IMMEDIATELY after previous proc ends, make it proc after 10-12 seconds) - effective 10 seconds berserker state, followed by 10 seconds of cooldown, rinse repeat for 3 minutes, re-buff as needed. I am hoping SOE announces todays change to Bloodlust as a bug, because i dont see any fun in not being able to tank, taunt as good as Guardians, and now don't have the DPS advantage. (READ: I am not calling for nerfs on Guardians - If a class is overpowered, up all other classes and toughen up monsters, because no one of your customers likes playing with less than what they have previously.) (Parsing was done with Statalyzer from www.thescoutssanctuary.com) Thank you for listening, and safe hunting out there. Wuushu - Level 38 Berserker - Forgotten Heroes of Dereth Runnyeye Server EDIT - Fixed some spelling errors and added parser download URL. Message Edited by Wuushu on 01-07-200509:09 AM Message Edited by Wuushu on 01-07-200509:48 AM Message Edited by Wuushu on 01-07-2005 09:50 AM
Fantastic, its good to see some cold hard data. But I dont know what scares me more, the drop in DPS or the amount of extra damage you took post patch. /shakefist
Aye, increased damage taken, combined with the healer class "nerfs" i think we will have a few tough days ahead. I just miss being a "berserker" :/ I will probably get more studying/IRL/cleaning done the next few weeks, since ever after EQ2 release.
Clay golems are group mobs if I am not mistaken. Group mobs got beefed in the patch. Your numbers are biased since the mob your scaling yourself with have been modified. Healer nerf is a error on soe. It is stated in the news section on the official forum. It will be fixed. Hope it works out for beserkers when SoE have ironed out the problems with the patch. Granbar Mountaintall 32 Guardian 28 Alchemist
I am not seeing any difference in damage...and tested on solo mobs... As said above group mobs got beefed so everyone is hitting for less and getting hit harder. Bloodlust got borked and possibly the haste on tides of war....but beyond that I like my zerk still and think its as viable as always has been..i do think the nerfs to a few skills will get tweaked back up.... Start using Focus Rage again and a few of the "Go Berserk" skills and you should be in berserk mode a good amount of the time. Id bet that the DPS loss you are seeing is from not being in zerk mode 100% of the time with blood lust on. A few skills that make you go berserk got fixed...and I think they in conjuntion with our taunts should make it easy to maintain agro...sure not as easy as before...but Im sure we will still be stealing agro when not being careful. Edit: I am actually playing more with it now...and I am able to be berserk a good chunk of the fight using the right skills...its strange sometimes two berserk spells are up even... Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 01-06-2005 06:38 PM Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 01-06-2005 06:42 PM
Not entirely true there.. This was in the patch notes on the 4th of Jan - Slightly increased the melee damage of grouped mobs. Be wary! So the results are not biased but point out an addtional discrepency in damage since "The Big Patch"
Here are my numbers, they are very similar to the numbers above. They are both logs of me killing 32 Feral Lashers, I lost 22 DPS (about a 40% loss in DPS) even with a level gain. This is much too harsh. Oukagak lvl 35 Ogre Berserker (before bloodlust nerf) Astaroth of Guk's EQ2 Log Parser: 1.18 2004/12/28 23:58:21 Parsed a total of 32 estimated battles Total Melee Dmg: 27169 over 923 seconds Total Skill Dmg: 26255 over 923 seconds You landed 335 hits and missed 128 times. Overall 72% of your hits landed and 28% missed. You landed 391 skills and were resisted 34 times. Overall 92% of your skills landed and 8% were resisted. Highest melee hit: 138 Lowest melee hit: 22 Calculated Melee DPS = 29.4355362946912 Calculated Skill DPS = 28.4452871072589 Calculated Total DPS = 57.8808234019502 Oukagak lvl 36 Ogre Berserker (after bloodlust nerf) Astaroth of Guk's EQ2 Log Parser: 1.18 2004/12/28 23:58:21 Parsed a total of 32 estimated battles Total Melee Dmg: 27221 over 1550 seconds Total Skill Dmg: 27356 over 1550 seconds You landed 344 hits and missed 109 times. Overall 76% of your hits landed and 24% missed. You landed 400 skills and were resisted 41 times. Overall 91% of your skills landed and 9% were resisted. Highest melee hit: 127 Lowest melee hit: 19 Calculated Melee DPS = 17.561935483871 Calculated Skill DPS = 17.6490322580645 Calculated Total DPS = 35.2109677419355 Message Edited by Methusek on 01-06-2005 06:36 PM Message Edited by Methusek on 01-06-2005 06:37 PM
Yikes, also the amount of time it took to complete the battles was much longer. from 32 battles in 923 seconds to 32 battles in 1550 seconds. Though thats a given seeing as the DPS is lower. Did you happen to parse the damage taken as well by chance? Message Edited by Onichi on 01-07-2005 12:40 PM
If you cant see the difference in damage then what the hell are you lookin at? I duo with a fury, we were doing the yellow ^^ wasps in EL, AFTER they beefed up the group mobs on the 4th, I was left at full health with my healer usually around 20-30% power left. Today after the big patch I go do a white ^^ wasp( since I lvled yesterday) and im at half health and my healer oop. We just simply do not do the damage that we used to do, so: the fight lasts longer, therefore, you take more dmg. Oh and btw the powers that make us berserk, joke, tried them all, same results. Atm you are a guardian w/o the guardian defensive skills. wtg soe woot. Braxus 33 berserker Sophilia 32 fury
The difference in damage taken must be a representation of time in combat due to the newfound lack of DPS. Dont pay much attention to the amount of time it took to complete, I wasnt killing as fast as I could for the second log (and I dont remember if I was for the first one either). It doesnt really matter. Pre-Patch Total Damage Taken: 18173 over 923 seconds Calculated Total IDPS = 19.6890574214518 Post Patch Total Damage Taken: 21796 over 1550 seconds Calculated Total IDPS = 14.061935483871
I am pretty sure you are seeing the same thing all classes are seeing.... I am not seeing our skills being reduced in damage on solo mobs....and I am able to be berserk a good chunk of the time...and am not having issues with being hit more or harder on solo mobs. Actually with the Traits you gain as you level I gained (1) AoE stun (1) AoE melee Attack with bleed(assume DoT) (1) higher lvl AoE taunt ..overall Im prettyhappy with it ATM... yes bloodrage got nerfed, but we new it was coming..and really i dont think its going to end our ability to hold agro as taunts and going berserk in a fight a few times should be plenty Im not happy with what appears to be a reduction in the haste from being berserk or Tides of War...but I think the class isnt in danger of any major nerfs... Yeah Im not looking at parsed data, but I am cranking through the same solo mobs I did before patch....since most zones are down atm cant really group up on group mobs to see how hard they hit....but as said I am sure all classes are getting hit as hard and have same % damage reduction...save the lost DPS from our Haste nerf
Aye, thats what I just wanted to verify by seeing a second set of Numbers :smileywink:. Thanks for the info guys, I wish I was at home to play with it first hand. Work getting in the way of playtime, how rude :smileyvery-happy: And I think you are right somewhat OverlordMLF, I'm going to have to evolve my combat strategy a bit more from now on. I never really relied on Bloodlust to hold aggro so thats not too much of a problem though I am going to miss the perks of being Berserk as often. Message Edited by Onichi on 01-07-2005 01:14 PM
The new training abilities we got are not intended to stack with their normal version, so that's not a DPS upgrade there, OverlordMILF. That any do (Nekhron's Barrage) is a bug.
Not sure about that, as well as the aoe taunt I got is better tahn my clas aoe taunt. I was reading that wthey are intended to NOT stack with our class skills..as so many mages are complaining about. I cant believe a trait skill should stack with a class skill...that would not make any sense..I mean why choose it?
Don't take this as a flame, Overlord - but this is the same argument that a few higher level Zerkers gave when Bloodrage was nerfed... Ie. I'm not seeing a problem, so there isn't one. The truth in that situation was the bloodrage was made totally ineffective from levels 21-30, after which the damage starts to scale up dramatically and the skill becomes quite useful again - So the higher level Zerkers at the time noticed no problem whatsoever, and told the complaining majority to be quiet. From level 37+ in this situation, most people apparently use Tides of War (same timer?) as a replacement(?), and have a greater number of skills which give the opportunity to proc berserk anyway, so again, the situation is not as drastic for them. This does not mean however that things are all peachy because 'oh well, we'll work out fine in the end'. Levels 23-37 are a huge chunk of a characters life here to be gimped through.
Naw I totally agree and am not saying there is no problem at certain lvls. While I have Tides of WAr I think it itself has been borked as well..as I am not seeing the haste efffect taht I used to replcae bloodloost even before the nerf to bloodlust.. I wont even dispute taht our Damage over time was nerfed via haste off bloodlust and ToW...BUT I cant believe its a class killer as everyone is saying here. Using Focus Rage, our buffs, our taunts ect...we will be in zerk mode more than enough to hold agro IMO...I jsut dont see a serious DPS loss on solo mobs which leads me to believe there was yet another upgrade to Group Mobs AC....if that is the case a lot of classes will feel the same DPS loss...and we are not even a DPS class... Although my big hits are doing the same damage now as pre-patch I again agree we lost DPS in haste alone. i jsut dont know why blood lust not working would break the class if we are still able to be berserk a reasonable amount of time in a fight... going berserk is what pulled agro..hell even going bers once ina fight was enough most of the time... I jstu think there is some over reacting ATM when people start yelling Im quitting and bers is non-viable across the board. In all honsety ATM I really like the patch...it puts a tad bit of skill and attention to our class as well as pulls out the 1 trcik pony issue and otehr classes whining about bloodlust (which we knew was being changed) I think the fact taht Focus Rage alone is apparently working more effectively and putting us into zerk mode is a good sign that this isnt an accross the board issue that would affect some lvls moreso than others...but agin the whole magnitude of the patch is yet to be seen...and especially since many zones are down it might not be seen for a few days Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 01-06-2005 07:31 PM
I think one of the reasons I am sore about this is that many of us actually wanted bloodlust to be toned down in the aggro department, so that it could be used to effectively maintain berserk state whilst off-tanking. Whilst you can proc berserk now (to a much lesser extent) with buffs such as Focus Rage, we have even less ability to proc berserk in the offtank role now, and reduced ability in the MT role. This wasn't a fix, it was an outright slap in the face. All that had to be done was to reduce or remove the aggro generation of 'going berserk', and make the ability do what it says on the blasted tin, ie. Give the chance to proc berserk when a group member is hit. Not exactly hard, and anyone with half a braincell to rub together was suggesting things like this, but again, the powers that be have ignored the playerbase. Edit: Typo Message Edited by Jherad on 01-07-2005 03:34 AM
Before patch I was soloing yellow and oranges at lvl25 really well. Now I can barely solow a white with 50-100 hp left afterwards. I'm going to bed... I feel sick.
All I know is that now we are a second rate tank, who has lost all its class defining abilities. Pretty much we dont hit like we are supposed to anymore plus we lose our ability to zerk. I use all the abilities and I rarely see the red pop up. Also, I have noticed that as a ZERK I lost aggro multiple times today which never happened before. So until SOE changes this crock its off to craft and fume...
I have to disagree with Overlord, I think this is a class killer. I zerk maybe once or twice a fight now. Sorry but you can't tell me that a zerker that hardly ever zerks is still effective. It's the same pattern SOE always does, they nerf a class into the ground and it takes years for that class to climb back up. Sorry but I honestly do not see the point of playing when with one patch i've gone from having great DPS and taunting, with good damage mitigation to having utterly NOTHING. This class has been gimped, I guess SOE did plan on the Guardian being the only viable tank in the game. Very sad at this, I can't see playing and spending the time to level when my character has gone down 50% in effectiveness. Very sad =( Vanessa
