As a newb ranger who previously posted on this thread as 'not a ranger,' I think there are some possibilities to be had. The first issue is that it really isn't at all worthwhile for woodworkers to make arrows except to sell at ridiculous prices due to the supply and demand of them by rangers. As a ranger/woodworker who thought it would save him time and money to just craft his own arrows, I was greatly disappointed to see that I spent more time and effort on making the arrows than it was worth to just buy them or take up jewelcraft and makeshift some arrows while I was working on making myself some combat art upgrades and jewelry. My first suggestion is to illiminate the levels of quality of arrows so that all levels will create 25 arrows. This mean, like Adept III recipes, the crafter can succeed at the first tier and cancel out the recipe as a whole. This makes for much faster crafting time. Otherwise, the second option would be to make it so that the pristine level of a recipe would create 99 arrows, enough to fill one slot in a quiver. Both ideas would more than likely equal out with time spent and arrows gained in the end, except that the second option would use up less recipe components. The other issue is in general the need to use consumable ammo for primary attacks, an issue that has only afflicted Rangers in the game. I highly doubt SOE is going to create a special rule where we don't consume our ammo or give us the EQ AA ability. But, my idea here is to add a new Ranger-only quiver to the tailor recipe list. This quiver is just like normal quivers in regards to ability bonuses but has the added effect of providing a % chance for the Ranger to 'recover' an arrow with each shot fired. Tier 1 Ranger-only quivers could have a 5% chance to 'recover' a fired arrow, Tier 2 10%, Tier 3 15% and so on. Mastercrafted Ranger-only quivers could increase the amount by +3 to +5% over the Handcrafted of the same tier. Legandary/Fable/Mythic versions of these quivers could be added throughout the game to various boss/named mob drop tables as well. This % chance to recover could eventually cap out at 50% (tier 10, levels 90-99). If the quiver isn't the option, then I believe an additional self buff with a 2 or 3-slot concentration requirement would be the next best offer (though, it would be yet another buff to fight over the M1 version, which I don't think any class needs at this time). Another issue, though mostly a pain than a game breaking problem, is that the arrows summoned by our makeshift spell and the arrows returned by our melee CA are two different types of arrows. At my level, the melee CA returns a feyiron arrow and the makeshift arrows return a something-or-other feyiron arrow (sorry, my memory sucks). The issue is that they don't stack. So, now, to best manage my arrows I have to track two different types. Actually, I lie, I don't have to. In fact, I got bothered with the management of my quiver that I filled it with the makeshift feyiron arrows and just end up deleting the melee CA feyiron arrows when I get more than 99 in my inventroy. I do not think that we need arrows that improve our damage. I believe a side item to this issue is that there is truly a lack of items out there that increase ranged damage as well as ranged crit chances. I believe we should look to get these type of things corrected rather than asking for arrows that deal more damage.
_______________________________________________________________________________ As previously posted by Loki_D20: As a newb ranger who previously posted on this thread as 'not a ranger,' I think there are some possibilities to be had. The first issue is that it really isn't at all worthwhile for woodworkers to make arrows except to sell at ridiculous prices due to the supply and demand of them by rangers. As a ranger/woodworker who thought it would save him time and money to just craft his own arrows, I was greatly disappointed to see that I spent more time and effort on making the arrows than it was worth to just buy them or take up jewelcraft and makeshift some arrows while I was working on making myself some combat art upgrades and jewelry. My first suggestion is to illiminate the levels of quality of arrows so that all levels will create 25 arrows. This mean, like Adept III recipes, the crafter can succeed at the first tier and cancel out the recipe as a whole. This makes for much faster crafting time. Otherwise, the second option would be to make it so that the pristine level of a recipe would create 99 arrows, enough to fill one slot in a quiver. Both ideas would more than likely equal out with time spent and arrows gained in the end, except that the second option would use up less recipe components. The other issue is in general the need to use consumable ammo for primary attacks, an issue that has only afflicted Rangers in the game. I highly doubt SOE is going to create a special rule where we don't consume our ammo or give us the EQ AA ability. But, my idea here is to add a new Ranger-only quiver to the tailor recipe list. This quiver is just like normal quivers in regards to ability bonuses but has the added effect of providing a % chance for the Ranger to 'recover' an arrow with each shot fired. Tier 1 Ranger-only quivers could have a 5% chance to 'recover' a fired arrow, Tier 2 10%, Tier 3 15% and so on. Mastercrafted Ranger-only quivers could increase the amount by +3 to +5% over the Handcrafted of the same tier. Legandary/Fable/Mythic versions of these quivers could be added throughout the game to various boss/named mob drop tables as well. This % chance to recover could eventually cap out at 50% (tier 10, levels 90-99). If the quiver isn't the option, then I believe an additional self buff with a 2 or 3-slot concentration requirement would be the next best offer (though, it would be yet another buff to fight over the M1 version, which I don't think any class needs at this time). Another issue, though mostly a pain than a game breaking problem, is that the arrows summoned by our makeshift spell and the arrows returned by our melee CA are two different types of arrows. At my level, the melee CA returns a feyiron arrow and the makeshift arrows return a something-or-other feyiron arrow (sorry, my memory sucks). The issue is that they don't stack. So, now, to best manage my arrows I have to track two different types. Actually, I lie, I don't have to. In fact, I got bothered with the management of my quiver that I filled it with the makeshift feyiron arrows and just end up deleting the melee CA feyiron arrows when I get more than 99 in my inventroy. I do not think that we need arrows that improve our damage. I believe a side item to this issue is that there is truly a lack of items out there that increase ranged damage as well as ranged crit chances. I believe we should look to get these type of things corrected rather than asking for arrows that deal more damage. _____________________________________________________________________________ Sorry the quote button wasnt working sorry if i got your name wrong, but sum it up lol I got bored on the second sentence and decided to stop reading, lmao. Anyways basically I'm too stupid to even understnad what this guy wrote even if I read it (I'm a mechanic the only thing i understand is engines lol) But anyways my 2cp on this subject as i have said before please don't bring back endless quiver, just make the arrows 2cp or cheaper than a few pp for 1500 arrows... Just my thoughts, I honestly don't want EQ itll just give the gms a chance to make us better in one way then nerf something else and make our dps even worse. plus I wanna play EQ2 not EQ1
on my way out of this game i have to comment on arrows....its the cost, period that was my biggest problem.I played on exchange and actually had to buy PLAT to continue raiding or park my ranger. i spent at least a plat per day on arrows thats just wrong. btw..... ichor and bazkul arent a good solution to arrows even for a raider cause they are useable by ANY class but priests, so many rangers will lose those bows to some greedy assassin or sk. xzander 70 ranger (deleted)
The answer to this seems simple enough to me. Two Words Endless Quiver: Here is how it would work It would be an AA to replace the reduction time it takes to get more arrows..and the ranks would go as such. rank one: 20% chance not to consume regement rank two: 40% chance not to consume regement rank three: 60% chance not to consume regement rank four: 80% chance not to consume regement rank five: 100% chance not to consume regement and this would fit nicely under the survival line. Aroumon Swiftshot ranger 70 Second Dawn
I am still curious how they are going to implement some sort of new system yet keep everyone happy.. I have a feeling I am going to be able to eat my cake and have it to with this one.. Being a ranger, and woodworker..
Give me some reason why they shouldn't bring back endless quiver please...and how would it not bennifit the ranger class in a whole? EMERALD ARROWS...from the looks of it and the drop rates of these arrows we are heading towareds Endless Quiver either way you look at it. Also no T7 crafted arrows...maybe another sign also. It will help and it will give the extra boost we need without killing any market out there. Aroumon Swiftshot
Some one suggested which is the very nice idea. That arrows be only used for Auto attack only and CA require no arrows. Also this is my first ever Everquest character so i dunt know what exactly Endless quiver is can someone pls explain.
Endless Quiver is an old EQ 1 aa for rangers that you only had to have 1 arrow inside your quiver and you could fire that same arrow forever.
I know this is a rather late reply, but I just saw this and it really struck a nerve. Woodworks SHOULD NOT be able to make T8 Ammo. First of all, you dont have access to any of the raws required. Second, you should have to wait til everyone else is in T8. Third, T8 Ammo summoning bows are a perk for what was, High End Game Raiding Rangers. Its not a need for every ranger more then its a want. End Game Raid Rangers could make the claim they need it to boost thier DPS, but they again, they are capable of killing the mobs in question to get that perk. Why the hell should crafters be able to negate the hard work of anyone thats put in the time and effort to get one such reward, to have it trivialized by solo or group rangers? They shouldnt have to. Until they put in an EPIC woodworking tables, that come with knockbacks, tail swipes, mem wipes and AEs that you'd have to make adjustments for, getting just the right position on the table and where you have to suffer many many deaths, crafters should never be able to make anything on par with end game raid rewards. However, if they do put in the Epic WW Table, please invite me to your group so I can watch, or at the very least, FRAP it for the rest of us. Im sure then you might have a clear understanding of what its like to work your butt off for a great reward. Okay now that Ive gotten that off my chest. There are many ways that they could improve the arrow usage. I believe most of them have all been mentioned, and all are great ideas. Crafters should have cheaper costs, more arrows per batch (both would be great starts) lowering the cost of arrows all the way around is another great idea. Upping the Arrow output on reclaimed, lowering the recast timer on it. All of them are great ideas, and all of them would have a slight impact on the costs... but would it really help? It wouldnt hurt any, and it would sting alot less, but lets face it, unless arrows are free, we'll still have to pay for them. It just wont sting as much. And if they ever allowed for WWs to create specialty arrows, with a + to certain types of damage, who wouldnt be buying those instead? And then the cycle will start all over again. Because you know the newer arrows do more damage, you'd be tempted to buy those instead of the generic one.
as my last post said its pretty self explanatory, I WANT TO PLAY EQ2 NOT EQ1, can you read the text now? maybe i should make it bigger, 1 second.... I WANT TO PLAY EQ2 NOT EQ1, there, if you can't read that then there is no hope for you
If you feel the need to post in a larger font with all caps, you should just not post as it only helps to infuriate people. Especially when you do so without offering anything to the conversation as you just did.
Endless quiver doesn't make EQ2 suddenly turn into EQ1. Just as SoW doesn't, or any number of the heritage quest items, or the cities fo Qeynos, Freeport or Kelethin. You Sir have a non-reason.
As much as you hate to admit it, this game is EQ1 on a larger scale..we have a variety of attacks...and the entire lore is based on EQ1. you shoot down a valid solution just because you think it will make it like a diffrent game..but in all reality it will balance us.
Ok I can totally see your point. It's just so frustrating to be near the bottom of the parse in a high end raiding guild doing everything that i can only to be at that bottom spot when i know with some t8 ammo i could be doing alot more damage. Bazkul/Ichor has yet to drop for my guild in DT so we'll see what happens when it finally does. This whole SK's and other tank types should be able to bid on these bows is kinda crap imho. I mean SOE made it so that they could use them but you can't tell me that you honestly believe that specific bow was really meant to go to a Tank. Assasins....meh I could live with it but to give it to a tank is just greedy. Yeah hes been in the guild the longest yeah he never bids on anything else because he's already ubered out with his class armor but what's more important bettering the DPS of the guild or getting a bow designed for a ranged class to a tank? I don't know what a good answer is but seeing as how rangers have no group buffs (I swear one Pathfinding comment....)or really any other type of help for a raid OTHER than straight DPS We should be parsing high. Making T8 ammo available to WW's for making was an easy way out to help us as a whole but as I can see it was a bad idea. Would be nice if there was some bow that you didn't have to clear DT out for that makes t7.5 ammo =P
I just read the original post and too lazy to read the 8 or so pages you guys have posted. Anyways, i raided steady for 3 months or more and never had a problem with reclaimed arrow adept 1. 10 min re use getting 30 arrows is nice. So constantly you need to be summoning arrows. If your always 24/7 grouped using your bow and never have down time to summon any. Buy Tin arrows that cost 1s per stack and your good to go for gorups, then when you raid use your good arrows. But i play alot and im nto always group and might tradeskill or use melee for a bit and jsut summon every 10 mins to fill up a bag so ill be rdy for raids.
Your about to get chewed up BADLY, colour coding my reply so you can easilly read what I am replying to you about in each of your statements.. You obviesly havent raided steady, or atleast only did AoAx4.. You CONSUME 32 arrows per minute with a shortbow, and 27 arrows per minute with alongbow. This comes to 320 arrows per the time it takes to summon your 30, or 270 with a longbow.. You are obviesly not playing your ranger to its fullest potential, and have little clue about the class. Adept 1 will alieviate 30 arrows, but you still have to buy 270 arrows every 10 minutes with a short bow.. This still comes out to be about 25g for 10 minutes of combat.. 10 mins, 30 arrows is not nice, hell if you use tripple shot and dont attack anything else to do an entire 2.4k damage to that mob you may find it fine.. And apparently by your own statements this is what your doing. Auto attack with adamantine arrows is 200-300 dps, with tin your looking at more like 5-50 dps tops.. Rangers cannot afford to slack on dps because we must maintain our dps with other classes like assassins, wizards, conjs, necros, brigs, swashy's etc.. These classes dont need to spend money on there class like rangers do, and just about every class listed can easilly outparse a ranger on this stage of the game. You put out less as a class when you dont have the right arrows.. A rangers job is to dps, not fart around, not pick daisys at the soccor game, not do utility, not be the kid who plays duck duck goose, and always says duck never goose, not the kid who runs into a mirror cause he thinks theres space.. Its DPS, if we actually had powerfull enough abilities that we could keep up melee none of us would be on this thread for god knows how many pages.. Seriously, I have a strong feeling your the kid who does the above.. Seriously, being ignornat is one thing - you can always be educated.. But selling a load of it is something diffrent.. Start playing your ranger more agressively instead of just using snipers shot.
Everbody likes a good joke this must be it? Hold on while I just use reclaimed arrows. Let me see I have reclaimed mastered, to fill up my quivers enough for 2 days raiding it would take me about 3 days to make the amount of arrows I use in 2 days. It costs me 4-5plat to buy that many arrows for 2 days, there is no point to buying less than admantine arrows unless you dont have enough coin, Ive parsed it, dropping even 1 tier will drop my DPS by about 25%. If it didnt take me more than a full day of tradeskilling I would make my own arrows. There are 3 different kinds of tradeskilled arrows 1 for piercing, slashing and crushing in case you didnt already know. If you raid and use cheap arrows you are doing yourself and your raid a big dis-service. That includes using my melee arts constantly as well. And an auto attack, well if I actually get one in its because im either asleep, or being lazy. On the weekend each raiding session is usually 8+ hours * 2, do the math and there is no way, unless you did nothing but summon arrows all day everyday you would have enough. Hold on while I just use reclaimed arrows again. In the first 20 mins of Labs I would have gone through at least 300+ arrows, and that is on an easy run. I carry 2 quivers that hold 1584 arrows, thats 3168 arrows at the end of the day both of those are pretty much empty, or have been already filled again. I really dont think Reclaimed arrows should be increased to be fair on woodworkers ( yes im biased), I think that the amount of arrows you get when tradeskilling should be increased to either 50 or 100, as a woodworker I would be happy to sell my arrows cheaper than what they are priced at a merchant if that was the case as long as I was getting some return on them ( 1 gold / 100 t7 ammo) I dont think anyone would be complaining, any kind of ammo should be that cheap. Hold on while I just use reclaimed arrows. Any of the T7 Arrow summoning bows should be hard to get, I didnt do many raids till I hit 70 and my cost for arrows was nowhere near as high as it is now, so I didnt really need that kind of bow. Thats not a complaint, just the way it is. BTW I just need to Hold on while I just use reclaimed arrows. Message Edited by Dragonsword20 on 01-22-2007 01:46 PM
