Adorning daily quest possibility

getting lucky to get "Infusions" is PITA unless if get hands on Fableds and Some Legendarys.
with fableds i often get 1 infusion out of 4-5 fableds, and 1 in 20-25 legendary muted, problem is, i dont see many fableds, even doing chrono-farm, low level isnt the issue, but needing some higher grade craft items from 60-89 level mobs.
i cant tranmute every treasured rewards i got from npcs, too high to break them down, still somewhere around 150/450 or near 200/450.
my bank is full of those +60 levels and cant ask other to muted it, since they are no trades, lores, my alts got full from collector and cant do much without help of "Mulings".

Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:

WOW - u do it the hard way..... Harvest T-1 through T-3 rares - turn them into spells or armor - then break them down. Continue to that until you have Frags and Pwds. You don't need Infusions... If you do get infusions - use them first in adorn recipes because you get a frag (I think) back. Then do nothing but adorns with frags/pwds - rinse and repeat. Yes, you can do it and skill up to 450 just using grey items.
Yes, it has been readjusted and takes a bit longer, but you can sell all your low level adorns to the vendor to get your fuel costs back. When I did it, on the average RNG was 25% - now I understand it's slightly higher. However, I'm doing muting/adorn on another character since the change - and so far it's running about 35-40% which is a lot less than the 60-70% I was getting when I first started.
If you don't have a character who can make spells (alchy, sage, jeweler) or armor (tailor, armorer, weaponsmith); then make a new character to live on the beginning isle to harvest and kill for treasured. And if you don't have a character who can make spells yada, then become one - you only need to be able to make spells/gear up to level 20 which will take you all of about 2 hrs or less to accomplish. Use the tradeskill trainer and you even get free recipes and a TS vest!

Thank you for all the opinions on both sides of the fence.
To clarify, one of the things that we're thinking about is how to reduce the incentive for transmuters/adorners to vacuum up all the lower level items that newbies (edit to clarify: I mean adventuring newbies here) might need from the broker. While this change alone won't make a huge impact, it's a small step, in addition to helping ease the process of levelling adorning.
I am not a big fan of the argument "omg it sucked when I did it, so it should always suck for everyone else too". I won't say that people in this thread are saying exactly that, but there are some echoes in there. If something sucks, I'm generally of the opinion that it should be made to not suck if possible, or at least suck less. Vacuum cleaners and black holes excluded, of course.
I had a play around with the possibilities of an adorning quest, and when GU56 hits Test server there should be a questgiver appearing in the main tradeskill societies so anybody interested can see what they think. I don't think it anything similar is needed for tinkering at present - leveling up tinkering is already quite painless thanks to guild harvesters, and tinkerers are not affecting the broker prices for newbie equipment so significantly as adorners. That's not to say it's out of the question, but I don't think it's valid to consider tinkering and adorning as equal and equivalent, as they work very differently.
Some other things that we are discussing as a possibility for providing more adorning material are making more newbie quest rewards tradeable, and possibly putting some transmutable items into those rainbow scrying areas. These are still under internal discussion however, we aren't planning to rush a whole bunch of changes in all at once so we'll see how it goes.

So how does this change the value of adorning? I'm not seeing how there was ever a lack of materials for newbies given they could just craft more. Everyone trying to level adorning is in the exact same boat as far as starting; you either spend plat buying the skill-ups,mentor/lock at a level and farm them or you craft them yourself. If this is to be changed by adding a freebie quest and "it sucked when I did it" in whatever echoes you see is not a reason, then why does it have to suck at all? If you're adding a freebie quest, it's better to just sit down and rethink the skill. It was explictly designed to be expenisive in either time or plat,this change principally removes that from adorning.

Deson wrote:

I belive Domino said that this is some sort of daily quest? So your being given a 4th possability: spend time for plat. i.e. method 1 2 and 3 are all faster than the quest. You can mix 1 2 and 3 freely now, just add this 4th to the mix.

DominoDev wrote:

*sigh* .. in the Main crafting areas? You know they are getting pretty filled up. I mean other than Gorowyn's.
There is barely room for manuveuring as it is in NQ, sometimes .. What with me standing the middle of the room and idiots on huge rhinos blocking whole sections off from view, Purrla standing around playing with her tail .. the 2 writ givers, Tweedle Dee & Useless .. the Sage making copies of every book/scroll & email in game in quadruplicate .. the Fuel merchant, who'd rather spend his time writing love letters to a certain halfling .. The Crafting Trainer, who's never Crafted a day in her life .. The Prissy Crafting Faction Sales Girl, whose attention you can't get unless you raise up a Platimun Crown Card .. The Crafting Tutor, who can't get past the 1st Tier in Crafting and proves the maxim those who can't, teach .. the Crafting Crisis Counselor who needs an intervention from having to deal with 1 too many Crafting Split-personalities and the Grandmaster who is too lazy to go outside to do his own errands! ... And, now we're going to have a Adorner who's probably half out of their mind from smashing too many Treasured & Legendary items to get enough ingredients to get just 1 more skill up?! OMG! I think the Ironforge is going to implode one of these days!
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I don't understand the statement on the transmutable items for the Rainbows .. the armor items it occassionally spits out are Transmutable. Though, more would be nice, and/or it would be nice to change the stupid "Treasured" cash only items to be non-stacking and transmutable 'wafer chips' so to speak.

Meirril wrote:

The difference is, all the first 3 cost you something big. While it remains to be seen, any daily quest that's like the ones we have now( minus the instances) is basically a passive easy skill acquisition that's as good as free. Buying skill ups costs you a small fortune( I've spent over 500pp so far upping characters just in transmuting since the changes), mentor/ locking costs time better spent elsewhere( tried this in newbie zones including DLW and Gorowyn and the drop rate was horrendous) or you can harvest/craft ( how I raised my first and, until this quest goes in, only adorner) which took me about 2 weeks of harvesting starter areas, crafting those items, muting those items and then craftingthe adornments for skill-ups. This, unless it's as long as doing the TS instances solo, is a so small as to be insignificant amount of commitment.
I don't mind changes, I just don't see the reasoning behind it being a big deal. If the goal is to ease the pain of leveling it, then adorning itself should be looked at and changed from the pain in it you were warned it was going to be.

Deson wrote:

If your doing 6-10 combines per day to skill up adorning to 400 that would take you...about 3 months? Every day. I'd say you have amazing patience.

Whatever it takes to get me up to Adorning skill 100 will be good for me. I could hand things after I reach T4 or 5, but just getting out of T1 is pure hell.

Meirril wrote:

If it's like the current dailys? It's a few minutes a day for a skill I'd otherwise consider not worth it. That's how it has to be looked at, who's picking it up that otherwise wouldn't. If the goal is increased accessibility, then just redo it and drop the warning given.

I just saw Domino's edit.I apologize for not catching what should have been an obvious point.My earlier posts in this thread would have been completely differrent had I known the goal but I still stand by everything I've said thus far.
I still disagree because newbies are the ones benefitting from the massive wealth transfer. Between quest items, AA and the wealth provided by selling what they win to vets leveling muting and adorning, newbies now don't really have to worry about anything until the 50's since they'll just blow through everything. Combined with higher levels mentoring down and the ability to harvest for rares for MC gear, worrying about the newbies is purely a matter of information, not game mechanics. No newbie who spends 5 minutes asking questions in chat, including "why is stuff so expensive", should have any issues. Besides, all the gear being sold is crap compared to MC gear and current standards. By trying to keep more of it on the broker, you're essentially trying to push us back toward the pre-muting days where all that crap was straight vendored or sat on the broker for months.If anything, you'll be hurting newbies by competing with their income stream.
Meirril wrote:

It's not tremendous patience when it doesn't cost anything. The quest essentially benefits those who don't want to pay the other 3 costs and the alternative is just not doing it. That's what I'm getting at, 6 months isn't a big deal if it costs so little and once you're at cap, it's no longer about 0-450, it's 450-500 which is a significantly smaller number.Besides what's 3? 6? 9? months when at current rates we're at cap for ~2 years. The SF daily quests are so casual, I can do all 4 in less than 30 mins. Unless this quest has a very significant time commitment where I can't sneak it in right before work or something, once a day isn't that big a deal.

If you want to remove the problem with people buying up low level items, you would have to depend the chance for skillup on the level of the item (transmuter)/recipe(adorner) vs your skill level. That would not be a popular move, but could then be mitigated by offering the quest.

No to making it easier. I just levelled up to 450 on my main. It wasn't hard, it wasn't costly - I just saved everything crappy on the wya up through the levels, and muted it adorned a bit etc.
This is EQ2, not Happy Families or Snap - it does take a little accountability and common sense to play. New players will become aware of:
1. Transmuting
2. Droprates.
3. Chronomages.
4. No-trade quest loot selling for peanuts to merchant.
5. High prices of relevant raws (ad1s, treasured, ledgeys) and of frags powders etc
and once they do they will be able to make an informed decision as to whether or not to invest their time or money into muting/adorning.
Another thing to consider - someone used the transparent excuse of 'poor newbies can't afford anything' which is tosh, as they will go to a broker, look for stuff see it is 10g go 'oh no, I will never have 10g' then go 'oh wait - I have a 12 slot bag full of crap I don;t need, wait - that's 120g'
I could go on and on about making things easy, trivialising the game, I'm not going to however as anyone with any passion for EQ2 already can see that the goalposts are changing all the time - think latest 'oh but I deserve masters on all my toons' - Ok! you can research on all, you poor little mites, cos everyone needs masters for soloing to 90.

No more easy shortcuts please!

i could understand adding such a quest mainly for the early levels of adorning since there is probably the biggest problems.
An idea would be to have the chance for skillups on that quest decrease with level so while you might get near to 10 skillups per day on low level adorning, at lvl 20-30 it might be down to average 5 skillups, and at lvl 50 down to average 3, and at top levels to average 1 skillups per daily quest. which would lead to increased need for crafting real adornments with increasing level, but since t8 and t9 adorns are really used and bought on broker that would lead to a good supply of these items on broker too.

This change would only address those people who are too lazy to chronomentor and get the stuff themselves, or those people who are too tight to buy stuff off the broker (which btw, does have a knock on effect for the true newbie player who can currently get a good return for his loot).
As it currently stands, Transmuting/Adorning does not suck.
It isn't broken and doesn't need fixing.

DominoDev wrote:

I don't see the vacuuming up of the newbie stuff you talk about. If it wasn't for transmutters that stuff would be clogging up the brokers forever. I don't think any of it gets used since the stat revamp made all of it useless.
It's not so much it sucked for me it has to suck for them too. This is the only tradeskill that takes some "work" to get to the cap and the people that actually want to put the effort in reap the rewards.
I really don't know what the fasination is with trying to make everything so easy that every single person in the game is the same.
Like previous people have said..... there are lots of ways to skill this tradeskill up already. Please leave it alone and use your time for something else.
Just a FYI.... the rainbows do drop stuff that can be muted.

Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:

QFT.
You can harvest enough chronomentored material in the peat bog in 2 hours to get to 100 skill. If you are raising muting as a newbie then you are getting this stuff anyway to mute as those are the zones you are in and you can lvl as you go.
It takes high lvl toons virtually no time at all to get to 450 muting as is, and a quest simplifying the skill acquisition makes the whole skill levelling ideal, as in hard to level, costly, etc per the npc warning.... well,,, pointless.
May aswell just make it so you mute somethign and you are gaurenteed the skill up or just make handcrafted stuff mutable, or just make any item that is brokerable mutable, it has the same effect. If newbies are getting blocked by lack of access to materials (due to pricing) on the broker, just make anything mutable, problem solved. It would also solve that pesky lack (apparently) of fragments at high level that people are also complaining about. 2 birds 1 stone...
Yeah I know, hyperbole, rant, blah, but I have been opposed to this idea since I first saw it and still am.

Alother thing that is kinda funny.... how long has transmuting/adorning been around and not had any complaints.
All of a sudden everybody wants it easy to level.

Impact@Splitpaw wrote:

Sadly, many newbies don't figure out how to sell stuff without being led by the hand and there is no in-game tutorial on how to set up to sell (or even how to not pay the broker fee). Yes, all that stuff is on web pages and the forums and occassionally someone will be nice in the level 1-9 chat and actually help newbies instead of try to figure out new spellings to get around any potential profanity filter that might be enabled. But even figuring out how to type in the 1-9 chat has to be explained to many newbies (no tutorial on any chat either), especially those who have never played any MMOGs before.
As for the 'mute as you level thing.. newbies don't know that either. There is absolutely no in-game information on it without attempting a search in the Knowledge Base (and how many veterans even bother with that, since it's been out-of-date more than current even from launch).
Veterans playing a new character, Yes, they know all this stuff and have zero problems making money, working up 'muting and adorning, etc.
It's the brand new players that are seeing the incredible prices and thinking they need to go buy plat to even do the most basic things in the game.
BUT.. a lot of it could be fixed with better, context sensitive, tutorial messages -and- easy to access/view context sensitive help texts. For example, until someone has at least one -sales box- on the broker, there should be an informational notice on the BUY screen that directs the player to look at the sell tab and then information in that area on the top which explains the difference between sales boxes and strong boxes for selling as well as how to obtain sales boxes and place them. Heck, I'd even add one more item to the "Buy your first house" quest-lette: a 10 slot sales box which would work exactly the same as any other sales box. I think they should also add back the other parts of the original housing tutorial which actually had you place items and put up the bulletin board while explaining them. Yeah the old lady who followed you in was creapy, but.. it actually gave a purpose for the stuff dropped in your inventory when you bought that first house and explained how to use them.

Kizee wrote:

Do you know how hard it is to actually get adorning up through Tier 1 itself? At least earlier, you could just skill up adorning through transmutation until you hit skill 100. Now, you gotta level up transmutation along with adorning, and tier 1 common adornments have a 6 to 1 ratio of shards to powder. That's not cheap or easy.