Wizards: I see none, what's the scoop?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Xerzist, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. Ibudin Augur



    They should own the parse on Griklor for sure, but Zerkers are burst DPS as well and they should both be competing for top spot. I raid in two different guilds, on two different servers both guilds have beat TBL and TOV with all achievements - just to give a base line, and each of those guilds field nightly 3 wizards each. Those wizards parse in the middle of the pact - usually around mages (I don't micro analyze every parse). How is the wizard in the group game on an hour long parse with a standard tank cleric 3 dps and maybe a chanter or bard in there? I think the larger issue is, there are no burn events anymore or they are 1 out of 9 raids each expac - Stratos and Griklor being the two for the last expac. Wizards need help for sure, no reason a warrior who is a no DPS class should be beating a wizard at all.
  2. Ibudin Augur

    They should own the parse on Griklor for sure, but Zerkers are burst DPS as well and they should both be competing for top spot. I raid in two different guilds, on two different servers both guilds have beat TBL and TOV with all achievements - just to give a base line, and each of those guilds field nightly 3 wizards each. Those wizards parse in the middle of the pact - usually around mages (I don't micro analyze every parse). How is the wizard in the group game on an hour long parse with a standard tank cleric 3 dps and maybe a chanter or bard in there? I think the larger issue is, there are no burn events anymore or they are 1 out of 9 raids each expac - Stratos and Griklor being the two for the last expac. Wizards need help for sure, no reason a warrior who is a no DPS class should be beating a wizard at all.
  3. Cicelee Augur

    Random thoughtless poster? That is a first...

    For the 20 plus years I have been playing, the three INT DPS classes have traditionally gone as follows-

    Short duration events, a wizard should shine.

    On a medium duration event, a magician should shine.

    On a long duration event, a necromancer should shine.

    That is INT DPS EQ 101. The problems now are wizards do not shine anywhere. They blow all their mana on a short duratioj raid and get beat out by necromancers (not even discussing melee, that is another convo for another day melee vs INT).

    Wizards need help. No doubt about that. Necromancers and magicians should not be doing better than them on an event like Griklor, given similar skill set and ability. Or if everyone burns on the first one or two Velk mobs for example, wizards should beat mages and necros as well.

    But if you are going to say that you want to be #1 on both Griklor *and* Kael? Not sure about that...
    Yinla, Petalonyx and Ibudin like this.
  4. Petalonyx Augur

    I'm no expert, but my opinion is that the Big Boom is missing. Wizards should have the biggest boom, and it should cost a lot of resources, and produce a lot of sparkly lights.

    Also, AoE dps where u go?
    Yinla and Jumbur like this.
  5. Cadira Augur

    Yeah this post is dumb.

    Cicelee hit the nail right on the head. Wizards should compete for burst event number one in the parse, and be top 10 on sustained imo.

    I feel like mages should be competing for top 5 on events with multiple mobs (beams and such) and top 10 for any fight.

    Necros should be on top for target rich environments where the targets have decent hit pools.

    Who knows how to fix wizards... Maybe give them a "sustained dps disc (aa)) like zerkers disconcerting or rogue's knife play. Increase crit chance by 10%, increase crit damage by 100-200% for 1.5m with a 4m cool down. Something to stack on top or burns and also something to use in-between for increased sustained and burst dps.

    Oh, AOE damage for wizards need overhauled and manaburn needs to be made way more attractive too. Maybe it should do way more damage (because...it's Mana burn) cost less Mana than the current rediculous cost, and proc a nice little buff on the wizard themselves for more dps for a short time.
    Yinla, Leex and Jhenna_BB like this.
  6. Derka Augur

    It almost seems like wizards need an ability that boosts a nukes base spell damage. Crit damage is great and all but doesn't do anything if no crit. Just making up numbers here but a 100% increase in base damage but with a -200% crit damage mod on a short reuse. Also definitely a manaburn fix. What is it, 16 mill every 30 mins? Reduce to like 8 or 10 mins or give it some real damage. 30 mil DD with +30 mil total for spell hits. Hate = mana cost.
  7. Badname3245 New Member

    The last official comment I recall from a dev was that dps was dps. This pure dps or I don't have a pet or roots or whatever else so give me more was all a player construct.

    So being equal to dps classes minus outliers to be corrected is likely all you get at this stage of the game. They don't have time to make multiple duration raids and then retune 6 dps classes back to their prior ballparks. There is no you have snare and a pet or sos or stuns or whatever so I get to do more dps then you thats all player made up. Tuning is 6 dps classes all being relatively equal as they can manage the ups and downs that come with stuff.
  8. kizant Augur

    The difference with wizards is that DPS has been the distinguishing factor for a long time. If your raid has room it's probably a good idea to just main change to a necro. You can ditch the pet and have the same game play experience you had as a wizard except you won't have any of the drawbacks.
    FubarEQ likes this.
  9. Ibudin Augur



    Nooooo! make a chanter, need more ADPS. But you do bring up a good point and hard to argue with your thinking.
  10. Ezbro Journeyman

    Cadira, what is dumb here is the use of the word "should". That is only old dogmatic opinion, not a fact for the game design. You cannot dictate what should or should not be for the current game. So many forum warriors (yes we have all played for 20 years so no need to try to gain seniority for your opinion) cannot let the game move forward if it upsets your imagined dps hierarchy or system, that you have growen accustomed to. Every idea or complaint gets shot down by these persons.
    Let's say the wizard from next patch is head to toe with the berserker on dps. Then we'd have pure dps melee competing with pure dps caster. One could argue that there is logic there. How would that ruin your other characters or the game? Answer; It wouldn't. No need to retune all dps classes or any other fabricated obstacles you can think of.
    If the game designer comes forward and states that the current goal is to have the wizards doing medium dps, it would be something we could debate and agree or disagree. Before that, I would believe (and it's only my opinion) that a pure-type class would be better at it's core functionality than a hybrid character class. Else there would be little point in playing a pure class in the first place.
  11. Cadira Augur

    Take it EZ, bro.

    Maybe it wasn't clear in my post, but I believe wizards should be "good" sustained dps, just not "top" sustained dps. I believe their burst (and sustained?) should be on par with zerkers. With that said, zerkers should probably have their sustained reduced a bit...but that's hard to figure out I'd imagine. I guess Cicelee said they should "not do well" on long fights, which to me personally translates to good but not amazing sustained dps. I mentioned they should prob be in top 10 on long fights, that's pretty damn good and I'm not sure how you translate that to "medium dps". If a rogue does 600k dps on a longer fight, I think the wizard should be around 500-550k. That dps difference can easily be several ranks on the parse, considering you might have 3 rogues, 3-5 necros blowing stuff up pushing even a slightly lower dps way down into 8-10th spot. Medium dps does not equate to top 10 on the parse. But that's just like, my opinion man.

    This imaginary hierarchy is not as imaginary as you think. It's pretty clear when you compare the base dps and burn dps of each class's given burn abilities, their cool downs, uptimes, how each class used to perform compared to the others at the game's launch when things were very simplistic, etc that there are classes designed (whether poorly or perfectly) for different purposes (sustained vs burst, etc) and levels within each of those categories as well as hybrids typically being less dps in general due to their utility they bring elsewhere.

    The problem is the devs have made things incredibly complicated with all these abilities and effects and it's hard to determine what a class is capable of. They never seem to look at actual top end guild's parses and realize what classes are over powered and under powered and don't seem to have the man power or the priority to throw at balancing things very quickly. They also post things on these forums implicating they are very out of touch with the game in general so sadly I have very little faith anything will get done about wizards or any class being out of balance.
  12. Jumbur Augur

    I remember the old days when every other class did 3-digit dmg numbers and we had ice-comet, hitting for 1100dmg. It felt very "big-boom"-like...I kinda miss that feeling. :)

    I wouldn't mind a slow-casting, high!!!-damage, high-agro nuke, where the big hits/critts really stands out in the combat spam. Let me stare at that casting-bar for 8 seconds and let me hit for 10+ mill dmg(if I dare!!! :eek: ). Let agro be the limiter for our damage again. Wizards are too "spammy" currently imo. I want to knock off 30-40% HP on trashmobs with a single cast, again.

    Or at least make it an optional playstyle... :)
    Petalonyx likes this.
  13. Jhenna_BB Augur

    Holy Tunare.

    You don't need to be all sun shine and roses at dissatisfaction with your class. You don't really need to be all positive so to speak. Behaving like a 12 year old, however has the opposite effect on what you seek in Forum Quest class discussions. I've done my share of over reacting to Ranger class implementation. Guess what happened in response? Nothing changed.

    Why worry about what you have zero control over? Keep fighting the good fight, speak your ideas of what your class should be and how you believe things can get there and that's it. You've done the best you can do that your posting privileges allow for. From there, speak with your wallet. I guarantee you won't - but it's what you should do. Come on, put your words into action. They serve you better than name calling or negativity in general are doing for you, now.
  14. Antasirras New Member

    As a necro, I can definitely feel for wizards on the mana issues.

    What might be interesting is something I saw in another MMO that shall remain nameless, where a certain class would blow its "mana" using its high-damage abilities (up-front burst), then had a secondary line that did lower DPS but actually restored their "mana" - forming a cycle of peak-and-valley DPS that was sustainable over a nearly infinite period. You could either fill your bar and then burst again, or hit the big one anytime you got to the proper "mana" level to use it again, staying more consistent. Something like that might make wizards a bit more interactive during straight-up DPSing, and then throw in a bit of utility as some posters have mentioned and you'd have a more well-rounded and interesting DPS class to play.

    I never played a wizard for long, but I remember the days of those cataclysmic hits. They should have that clout again, top DPSer or not.
    RPoo likes this.
  15. Mookus Augur

    I’m sorry that my frustration with the devs failure to balance a pure dps class is ugly. And I do appreciate the support.

    But I do think there is appropriate room after pointing it out for so long to call failure on the devs.
  16. Molybedium New Member

    I main'd as a wizard for 12 years.. took a break, recently came back.. and put him on the shelf.. he provided nothing that any other class couldnt do just as well, and frankly as pointed out.. very boring to play..
  17. Szilent Augur

    That exists for modern EQ wizards. A weave of Claw & Cloudburst & Wildmagic will consume nearly no mana while spinning off Gift of Magic for occasional "bombs" and spinning off refreshes for the Gambit mana restoring ability to feed more cavalierly deployed "bombs".

    It's my perspective that the play of the wizard class is already cool, fun, intricate and tactical in a way few classes are. The problem is just that the numbers aren't backing it up. All of the correct, effortful, well-informed, well-supported play in the world is somewhat trivially overtaken in results by less demanding (vis-à-vis any/all of : the support needed, or knowledge needed, or effort needed) classes that are almost universally better team contributors besides (e.g. rog/ber/mnk/rng aren't "support classes", per se, but each do contribute substantially to a melee dps group's multiplicative puissance).
    RPoo, Skuz, Sancus and 1 other person like this.
  18. Leex Augur

    Wizards can sustain near 700k DPS depending on the event...

    I'm not sure how anyone can say they are lacking in DPS. The only class right now that can really beat that is a Necro, otherwise you guys compete with Zerkers?

    Out of all casters, Magician's need the most help. We've been nerfed and stagnated, the last several expansions.
  19. Drogba Augur

    ^ and if mana is still hurting, you can substitute cloudburst for something like wildether barrage & bandolier swap in the tome of obulus for mana proc.

    Mana is not really an issue, and I agree with Szilent that the method of dealing with mana is enjoyable in that it mixes up which spells you need to cast in order to manage with the situation. Your mana bar will start moving in the opposite direction from 1% to 100% over a few minutes, whilst constantly chain-nuking if you are playing it correctly. Wizards are not the 1 button monkeys that they've long been made out to be. At least not if the player is trying to optimise their play.
    Duder likes this.
  20. Cragzop Augur


    You're currently listed on Magelo without a guild. How do you know wizards are sustaining 700k DPS on any ToV event (I know I'm not ... I can come close on Griklor everything falling right and no one failing emotes ... but for the other long events ... no)? Also if are guilded and your wizards are competing with berserkers, your guild should support your berserkers better ... or get new zerkers.

    Considering there are a number of other classes posting in this thread who would agree with the general premise that wizard dps seems to lack some umph, I think the premise is still valid. Unless you've got some parses to post...

    There are other threads for magicians, most notably the pet issue in raids. It's even been tagged in Bug Reports with a confirmation. Your input would probably be welcomed there.
    Skuz and Molybedium like this.

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