Wizards: I see none, what's the scoop?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Xerzist, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. Leex Augur

    So first, since I don't have a guild on my magelo, that's makes you assume I don't know? You know what they say about people who assume, right? You could have asked what guilds I've been in, instead of making that ignorant comment. I'd have told you Triton and Reckless Ascension, most recently.

    Now second, your posts literally states you've come close in Grik. Which is an event where you have to stop DPSing and stagger discs, making it not even an optimal parsing event. I've also seen Kizant's parse thread where you can see parses darn close to 700k DPS.

    This is a public forum, if you can't handle a "magician" commenting something valid, regarding your class..Maybe you shouldn't log into the forums?

    As for pet lag, that will never be fixed. That is bad coding, over a long time, and bad servers. There is no input that will change that fact.

    Regarding your Zerker comment. Do you have many Zerkers sustaining over 700k in MS? Shall I talk to Allayna, and get a parse?
    Jhenna_BB likes this.
  2. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    Thanks for bring a smile to my face tonight with all the tough talk. Man, you put me in my place.

    I'm sure Allayna will welcome your conversation. Go right ahead.
  3. Leex Augur

    This coming from the guy who literally was condescending because my magelo didn't show a guild tag...LOL

    Didn't you just make a comment about, how I'm a Magician so I probably want to go to another thread and contribute elsewhere? ...Yet, somehow I'M the tough guy?

    Would you like to clarify your comment regarding Allayna? We've known each other for a few years now, and have been on great terms, even after I left Machin Shin. Or was that just your way at trying to take another dig?

    I can understand you disliking what I said regarding how a Wizard parses, maybe that isn't all Wizards but just the top of the class. You obviously aren't there yet, that must have hit a nerve? My suggestion is keep trying, maybe even message other Wizards better than you and see what you're doing wrong?

    The point of my post is that Wizards, when utilized correctly, can do much more than what you guys are trying to say. Again, near 700k DPS is amazing. Right now Zerkers are close to that, and Necro's will beat that. I feel like that's a great place to be?
  4. Jumbur Augur

    2 suggestions for wizard utility:

    1. Improvement to the eye of zomm, so that it can fly(even indoors) and is completely invisible/stealthed to everything. A mighty wizard sees all!

    2. Remove our current gates/ports/tlc's spells and replace them with an ability that let us gate/port/tlc to any zone. We need to have "unlocked" the destination with a traveller achievement first before it works though(people getting ported/tlc'ed need to be flagged for the zone-destination as well). If no port-in location is defined, we arrive at the evac-spot for that zone.
  5. kizant Augur

    Number like that are meaningless without context. If you're a good player and raid with ROI then what you stated is true for every class except maybe clerics and paladins. And no, wizards aren't at all similar to zerkers at this point.
    Travestii, Szilent, RPoo and 2 others like this.
  6. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Hey now! Paladins can sustain pretty good for...40-60 seconds every 20 minutes! Well, on undead anyway!
    RPoo and kizant like this.
  7. Sine_of_the_Times New Member

  8. Badname3245 New Member

    So where is it that wizards are hurting? Is it not having the biggest single hit? Is it not burning for 3 million dps? Is it just not as simple as clicking a few buttons with a bard and a 99% critical rate like a zerker? We all know necromancers will be brought back down eventually.

    If you read around it seems like people think wizards are hurting but the reality is most are not following what kizant has shown in his videos. So it boils down to I don't like the play of a wizard anymore or I want to do more dps then other dps classes regardless of the event or circumstances because I am a pure dps class or have it in my head that from 1999-2011 I was the best dps class when in fact I wasn't.
  9. kizant Augur

    It's actually quite the opposite. Wizards currently don't have an event or set of circumstances where they would be the ideal choice or I'd say even in the top 3. I hope my videos are helpful but I only post when I do well and you have to remember I'm missing at least 15% to 20% of the damage others are doing. Often it's a lot more than that on these ToV raids.

    In recent years, I'd say we had two pretty good scenarios. One is when there's a single boss fight that lasts for maybe 2 to 3 minutes. A lot of melee burns don't last very long so they'd have lost steam in this time frame and some other classes still needed more time to really ramp up. So, we'd have a short period of time where we would still be going strong and taking the lead. In the current game I don't think this would even happen anymore.

    The second is when you have to deal with a small amount of low HP adds. Like too few for some other classes to be able to AE and too little HP for DoTs to have much of an impact. And the fight has to last a pretty long time since some classes do have strong abilities for this situation that only last for short time. A good example of this was GMM #3 and sorta #2 last year. But after the DoT changes in ToV I don't think that event would be that great anymore either.

    Looking back at raids in the past few years and basing them on the current game. The ones I used to like the most for our DPS would no longer work out anywhere near as well. We'd fall behind at least 1 or 2 places in each type of raid.
    Vrrek Darkenlore likes this.
  10. Badname3245 New Member

    I don't see wizards not having ideal raid circumstances and still falling as the 3rd or 4th best dps class as a problem. When we know for sure one will be drastically reduced eventually. If a guild has an abundance of those other 2-3 classes present that pushes you down farther than most want to be but that isn't hurting. That leaves upwards movement for those not in ideal raid settings or in settings where there isn't 3-4 of each of the other classes doing well with support. And leaves all the potential to move up should perfect raid settings for you appear again as well. People might not be happy but that is not exactly hurting and desperately in need of help.

    To me this is a situation of where many feel that in their head they picked a class for reasons that are not really valid. Like I'm a pure dps class and others are not. I'm meant to be fighting for 1st in the parse no matter the raid settings and others are not. This was never the case and I am not sure if its a matter of ignorance, playing with bad players previously or rose colored glasses of the past. Wizards might need slight changes and a little love but they don't need 20 million unfocusable nukes on 60 second recast timers or lazer beams from their eyes like some are implying because the sky is falling.
  11. kizant Augur

    I agree that wouldn't be problem. Like I stated about though, we're 3rd or 4th best in only 1 or 2 ideal situations.

    No. What we're saying is that we would like at least 1 situation where we have a shot. Out of short, medium, long duration fights involving burns, sustained, small number of adds, larger number of adds, etc. There's really not a good situation anymore. Just a couple OK ones and most not so good.

    I don't know where you're getting any of this from. My guess is you're just projecting.
    FubarEQ likes this.
  12. Trafthek Journeyman

    That's my exact thought on your posts.

    Not sure what bothers you about a pure dps class that has essentially no utility role at this point in the game asking for a boost in dps. No one is asking for a wizard version of Harm Touch with a 1 minute refresh. Might be nice though if for one expansion they don't just cut and paste the last expansion's new spells, rename em and give em the obligatory increase in damage that they do every expansion. And a majority of those spells go straight to the spell book and die there never to be cast. Wizard has to be the most ignored class in the last few years by the devs. They eliminated the ability to cast TL spells in combat, because of some TLP exploit i guess. But never occurred to them reduce the ridiculously long cast time while doing that.

    Still enjoy playing a wizard regardless.
    Skuz, FubarEQ and Yinla like this.
  13. Badname3245 New Member

    Maybe I am projecting but from all my years of raiding when everything was up good berserkers won burst and only when their long reuse stuff was down did wizards and rogues win the other events. And anything that lasted 2 minutes or more had necromancers, mages and hybrids played well and supported passing those burst classes. No where do I remember in raiding the past 17 years was it a situation of wizards being top 2 in parses always for all raids like many people seem to be stating is the error with tuning currently. Wizards competed but didn't win in burst every time and any fight of duration saw them drop like a stone. It wasn't until you started getting 4 minute burn buffs and mana support in raids turn resource management into a joke that you started competing and holding onto parses of much longer durations. Now that isn't even enough and the mentality seems to be that 4th best is insulting and it should be 1st in burst and top 2 in sustained or I quit.
  14. kizant Augur

    Yeah. You are the person you're complaining about.
  15. Badname3245 New Member

    So lets pretend I am wrong then and wizards have always been the best burst and able to sustain with anyone.

    Does that sound balanced to you? Or something the entire rest of EQ just happened to not be privy to? The class that in reality does that currently is broken and everyone including them agree with that fact and its only a matter of time before it fixed. The longest run of that situation I know of is berserkers with the original disconcerting disc a few years ago and druids ever since their dots were revamped and ideal settings from timing or adds allow them to take advantage of what they have and adps help.
  16. kizant Augur

    Nobody is saying that. You should stop making things up.
    Lannin likes this.
  17. Syndr New Member

    i was very very sad.. to see my dps .. go super far down the parse tonite..i usually am anywhere from 5 to 12..but now im parsing 15 to 27 after all the changes they made tonite even our worst hitting necros out parsed me .. it was very very sad to see i love my wizard.. they are hard enough to play due to having to have some help in higher level zones that mages and necros can solo..not sure what can be done to fix this class..
  18. Skuz Augur

    I might be wrong here but my feeling is that Wizards have a 2 pronged problem in that they aren't built to be the sustain class and many raid events are designed in a way that sustain classes do well on them.

    So what Wizards need is for the raids themselves to be a bit more of a "mix" so various dps classes, including them, have a chance to shine.

    Long term events that require sustain have Necromancers being king of the hill but without some raids requiring the skills or nuances of each class somebody is going to be feeling pretty left out.

    I think Wizards should be the king of the "big booms" so having some raid events where there are maybe some melee immune dangerous mobs that need to be taken out with huge nukes, and need to be taken out quickly let's them fill that role though I think the spell line up needs some help on that front.

    Raid events with "Burn phases" that are short but intense are also where Wizards can shine, either the main boss inactivates and the raid needs to deal with a mini boss the main raid mob summons quickly before the next phase or the boss itself transforms into a state that needs to be changed rapidly to counter bad things so the burst phase has to be managed.

    Other than those the AE mechanics of swarm adds being wizard ae friendly as already suggested does sound good.
    Having shorter "boss fights" isn't necessarily the only way to let Wizards have a fun place in events but the design does need to give them one at least on enough events that they feel potent & powerful key classes again.

    Maybe a list of what Raid mechanics ideas / changes Wizards would like to see would be something the devs can actually use to help them out.
  19. Szilent Augur

    Devs painting handicapped-only parking spaces isn't really the desired solution for the problem of devs not making running shoes.
  20. Badname3245 New Member

    Go back and look at just this thread and tell me that's not the aim of most of the people complaining. The sentiment is if wizards are not fighting for number 1 in any dps setting then tuning is off and needs to be addressed. Whether they come out and directly say that or just imply it. It was only a few years ago you were annoyed with how much work it took for you to compete on a 15 minute Sathir event. Having to use staunch and every other mana tool and AE trick to compete on the 15 minute long parses. How far you have come for that to even be a possibility and yet people are saying woah are wizards.

    Your own words from this thread initially:

    So wizards are unable to keep up and are only falling further behind. When the reality is your middle of the pack with other dps classes at worst: with one to be adjusted down eventually for at least burst and with raid settings that are not ideal for all your tools or burn. Seems pretty relative to other dps classes not behind and slipping even further without a major life line. A few more ideal raid settings and your back in the top 2 even in sustained. A bump in all out burst dps and your fighting with berserkers and rogues for that top burst spot after someone is nerfed down.

    I think everyone agrees wizards could use more burst for a short period as rogues, berserkers and wizards should beat everyone on those 60 second burns in an ideal setting. But after that you are not some special dps class that should then also remain in the hunt with all those other classes that are dps and can't or shouldn't have a shot at that top burst spot. Its a player unfounded construct that wizards are pure dps class and rogues, monks, magicians and necromancers are not. You being behind them at times is tuned not broken or a major tuning concern. Dps is dps. Necromancers reeled in and Haze taken away from Druids and everything is pretty well off with adjustments being needed but not drastically woah im behind save me situations.

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