Boxing has definitely contributed to the poor community that EQ has developed. It may not be "impossible" to get a group these days, but it is a LOT harder than it used to be. In the old days, if you wanted to do group content, you had to make friends. That is no longer the case. The primary way by which you created the social networks that made EQ so much fun has disappeared. Take a look at how many people in this thread have said they ONLY group with guildmates and friends. Boxing has made that viable. Before the explosion of boxing, these people would have had to do a fair number of pickup groups. In the process, they would have met a few bad players, and some jerks or trolls, but they would have also met a lot of people that they would add to their friends lists and group with again. The current state of the game is such that a person who starts new without a network of friends is severely limited in their ability to ever acquire such a thing. Grouping with people you don't know and then getting to know them was the core of this game. Boxing let people skip that and thus damaged the game.
The people I group with now I've known for about 8 or 9 years. Many many EQ friends have come and gone over the years. Some come back from time to time for short stints and are always welcome back into the fold. I personally do not have the need to find more friends. If I did I have no doubt I would find a handful solid players within a month to become regular groupies. Yes it is true the community is not what it use to be, but don't you think that all the new or returning players that are starting over would revive that because of the need to form new friendships?
It's maybe true, but it's also one of the main goals of guild: regroup some people together, people who have somewhere the same objectives, and group with them. It's not the fault of guilds or of long time established groups of ingame friends if they group mainly together. And even if, back in the days, boxing was less popular, it has always existed. I've created my 1st box (and 2nd account) during Kunark, and some good friends too. Imho, one of the main issues comes from the fact that people are way less proactive than they were back in days. Many people spend a lot time /lfg but they'll never create their own group. Yes, EQ1 doesn't have one of these "shiny" dungeon finder option (auto create a group, never say hello nor bye, ninja loot the chest or get the item auto-granted, and leave ... yeah, superb definition of a "community" )
I don't see evidence that his post is correct. Boxing has been a thing pretty much since EQ started, people who really don't want to group will not group no matter how many penalties you lay on them, they'll either box, solo, or just leave. People who do want to group will do so whether boxing exists or not. People who suck in groups will make the group game worse if you force them to group rather than giving them the option of boxing. So once more: Boxing does not decrease the quality of grouping, and arguably does not noticeably decrease the quantity of grouping. Forcing people to group, even if it increases the quantity of grouping (after the solo-boxers leave and take their paying subs with them), it will decrease the overall quality of grouping. Repeat after me: Forcing people to group does not make better or happier groupers.
You state things like your experience is the facts. While he might not have the facts to back his experience it still is his experience of what he has encountered. Just like you are not able to produce the facts either only what your experience and perception is. My opinion happens to mirror his opinion so claim anything you want, it won't change my experience and opinion.
When arguing things as subjective as this, you have to go on whatever evidence is available. My evidence is based on human psychology: Some people prefer socializing in certain ways, some in other ways. Trying to force them to socialize in a way that they don't enjoy, *especially* in something as strictly voluntary as EQ, will only breed resentment. Likely they'll just leave, taking their subs with them, reducing the profitability of the game and thus reducing time and money devoted towards improving it for the ones that remain. The ones that stay, if forced to group, will not enjoy it. That will find a way to express itself, consciously or not, resulting in a worse group experience overall. Iquana's assertion is based on the assumption that people will magically change their psychology if SoE forces them to do something they don't enjoy in game. Give people choices and they will naturally fall into whatever they enjoy the most, resulting in not only a happier, but larger playerbase. Restrict it to appease those who think others aren't playing it the way they're 'supposed' to, and a growing portion will become unhappy, and spread that unhappiness to anyone in their local environments, which in this case would be the groups they've been forced into.
Boxing did not appear in the original EQ: 1. EQ was not stable enough to permit boxing. 2. There weren't any approved boxing assist programs. People were generally convinced running any third party program was forbidden. 3. There weren't many linear tasks advantaging boxing. Truth is mostr people soloed until they were ready for Crushbone at which time the advantages of grouping became apparent. A dev posts that he's baffeled - SOE is not opposed to boxing. I'm not sure where that came from because I didn't see such a point being stressed in this thread. OF COURSE given a population of 100K from a high water mark of 500K SOE wouldn't be opposed to some people Paying Twice to Enjoy Once. We'll just ignore the part where a competing product where you can log in a do something useful all on your own and where the staff didn't create raid events "so hard it will make you cry" has 5M+ subscribers. SOE loves boxers. A shame really since players who've been dealing with Single Account Disadvantage that's the primary reason boxing is so prevalent need some lubbin too. If not a McSONY's there is another venue just down the street. Ya'll probably recognize a lot of it's patrons. Boxing hasn't ruined the group game. The massive disadvantages of single account ownership in a game where groups don't have as much persistence as guilds and putting together a group that will do the specific task you need to do is quite challenging compared to the ability to offset those challenges by boxing has ruined the group game.
Djinnkitty, that is still your opinion. As Battleblade points out boxing was not prelevant at all back in the beginning. I only knew 1 player back than that boxed. (I know beyond reasonable doubt that there was more though). Fast forward to today I can actually count on two hands the amount of single account holders. (Again I know beyond a reasonable doubt there are more) Eliminating boxing in my opinion would not be good for EQ. At the same time you have no idea the amount of people that left EQ because of boxing. Guess what, I have no clue either but all I need is to know of one person that did and know that there are more. You can try and claim psychology as your facts but let's be real. You are really reaching to support your opinions as a fact when your just speaking your opinion.
I box all the time (two accounts on the same comp) and have never used any "boxing assist programs". I don't even know what they are or do. I'm sure its anywhere from minimal assistance to total AI control. I've been told I box very well so I don't understand why some one would need to use a third party program to box. Maybe out of pure laziness. I could see the need for help if 3-6 boxing though. That just seems like work and no fun to me /shrug
Single account disadvantage? Haha. What a whine fest So, some people choose to have more than 1 account, and often play more than 1 character at a time. There are costs to this; and we can assume that these people think the advantages outweigh these costs. These advantages are not about power (being able to kill bigger things b/c you have more peeps on your side).......... no one is precluded from fighting things w/ more characters. The advantages are really about convenience and efficiency. You are at no disadvantage..... sorry if you've decided boxing isn't worth it to you. But this is really about envy, and applying some disenfranchised group label is laughable
Honestly I just skip over BB's posts because 1) he's delusional, 2) on the random chance he's right about something, someone else has already said it. As it is, boxing has been around since the start of EQ. Boxing has not hurt the group game at any point of EQ's history. There may be a greater ratio of boxers now, but likewise far more of them are willing to group and drop alts to make room for people they enjoy playing with. Boxing, again, has no negative effect on the group game. They actually have a demonstrable positive effect in the sense that they enable people to fill more group roles at once, increasing the combinations that can be used in the grouping pool, and they keep the total number of people subbed higher, raising the hard cap of potential groupers. Let's continue dealing with facts then: Every player that leaves EQ because of boxing is a player that leaves EQ because *someone else* is not playing the way they think people should be playing. These people are 1) not likely very enjoyable to be with, and 2) not likely to stick around when the game inevitably changes anyways. If they don't leave because of boxers, they'll leave because of afk campers. If they don't leave because of afk campers, they leave because <x> feature makes the game into 'ez-mode' and they won't stand for it. While every sub lost kind of sucks, if given the choice I'd far rather lose someone who can't tolerate other people playing the 'wrong' way rather than someone who left because the game simply became unplayable for them.
Lol, another waking dream from BB ... What are you calling original EQ? EQ at release? Hmmm, maybe But in Kunark already, boxing was pretty common, I was far from alone in my guild. The game was even easier to box, really slow paced (inc CH ... brb after a coffee cup). The game was very stable. Dial up connections weren't, but the game, yes, sorry. And you don't need any 3rd party programs to box. It's more convenient, yes, but alt tabbing works, and 2 computers too.
Still more /cough "justification" for the unjustifiable? Really? Yes, I'm call EQ at release original EQ. Isn't it? Boxing was extraordinarily uncommon. They didn't sell this game as pay twice or more and field a boxed army, You know it and I know it. The question is what can be done at this late date after EQ has already established a reputation for being single account player unfriendly, a boxer's paradise where people Pay for Power, a game where /lfg is so pointless almost no one ever uses the elaborate lfg UI. 1. Allow only one merc per group. This doesn't negatively affect those who choose to solo/can't find a group. It still makes it easier to build group until you can find a live tank OR a live healer OR a live DPSer to replace the standin for a player merc. BUT it changes one main and a boxed alt to a 3/6 group instead of a more viable 4/6 group. With only one merc per group providing spots for live players starts to look more attractive. 2. Continue producing some single player content. 2/3rds of the collection tasks could be done unaided. Want that aug for your main and 5 alts? Do it six times. 3. Increase molo exp but cap it. It's ridiculous to not be able to find a group and then get half or less of the experience if someone suspended a merc and invited you. It's also ridiculous for some classes to be able to get 30AA+ an hour. If something is wrong/lacks integrity FIX IT. 4. Continue creating quests that do not have to be done in order. It's a lot easier to find a common goal for a pickup group that way. 5. Consider the fact that almost no one would go to the extra expense of paying for an additional account if there wasn't a payoff for doing so. That boxer advantage is also the single account owner disadvantage. In this economy any new subscribers who discover the able to solo and progress gravy train runs out at around level 80 aren't going to pay twice to enjoy once. In fact they'll look in askance at a game advertised as multiplayer when their early experience is solitary player on most servers and playing with themselves (and their alts) when they do get within long shouting distance of current. SOE isn't opposed to boxing. It is $$. BUT so was the original game where people bought a single account in contrast to the new game where they'll see merc loaded hydra teams headed for one-person adventures. IMO by failing to make the game sufficiently single account friendly and by producing raid content that for years was overly exclusive SOE ended up with $$ when it might have had $$$$. If money talks they did not listen. If there was never an advantage to box, would you?
Ah, back in the good old days of EQ classic and the pre-Luclin expansions. Weirdly enough, it actually brought my family a little closer together. Right before Kunark started, my dad got the game, got us involved. I jumped on as an Erudite necro, as I was a gothy rebel who also wanted to min/max int. My sister was an evil human cleric. My dad two-boxed (using two computers) as a halfling rogue and druid. Before Kunark. As did a number of people in his guild. Oops, sorry, that conflicts with the weird alternate reality BB lives in. I mean... umm... it was difficult, pulling off our plan to ruin EQ through aggressive boxing. While the clueless masses were easy to fool with our seductive claims of boxing both increasing the number of subs, and thus cashflow that eventually goes back into EQ's development, and having no impact on the group game except to increase the available options to a wider range of people and tastes... those stubborn, valiant few like BB saw through the ruse. Even today they hold fast, knowing in their hearts that boxers are the cancer which is eating EQ away from the inside. Thankfully our evidence-suppression teams have managed to keep a lid on the documents proving we're behind the cessation of corpse runs, the implementation of ooc regen, and removal of open-book medding.
I see you're new to battleblade posts. He has roughly 3 posts that get repeated over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. He pines for an eq that never existed and for the implementation of random terrible ideas
6. Quests/missions with rewards other than AA and exp. The last couple of months if you logged in outside of raids in our guild you would find between 3 and 15 toons on doing something, back in HoT there was always at least 30 toons on doing something. Players were busy working to get achievements done so they could get the spotted bunny illusions. RoF has had nothing like this. Every achievements has a shed load of either exp or AA. No one needs to exp anymore just run round and do the collections, or afk camp named and just kill the PH's for bags and huge AA amounts when you complete a couple of zones. I just hope T4 has rewards other than AA and exp and those new weapons which don't look as super as we were lead to believe.
In 1999 I had two friends who boxed. They played on more than one PC and had little problem doing it.
