You said "Pretending this whole problem is all the fault of boxers" in response to me. I did no such thing, so don't put words in my mouth Sinestra. Do boxers negatively impact other players? I think so. Is the whole problem the fault of the boxers? No. Boxing is the result of failed match making and increased barriers of entry, which I detailed before.
There is no failed match making. Two bards can go group together with a tank merc and a cleric merc. Two Clerics can group together with a tank merc and a dps merc. It is far easier to get a group together than it has ever been. If you only want to play without mercs, then I guess you are just destined to be miserable. No matter what class you are, pick one person on the LFG list and you can group with them in current content. That has never before the time of mercs been possible.
I defined what I meant with match making only 3 posts ago, I never said it was failed class matching. You didn't read it. You were too busy upvoting everyone. Here is what I said: 'And by correct match making, I mean, someone of your lvl, with your goal, with your relative power, able to compete with what mulitboxing provides'
I've lost track of things, how are boxers hurting grouping again? Was it the firm belief that punishing them enough would somehow magically transform them into wonderful people to group with, as opposed to resulting in them either re-rolling good solo-class or leaving the game in disgust? Or are we still clinging to the conspiracy theory about server caps and that boxers are taking up that precious, limited space, so single-account owners, when trying to create characters, get an error message saying, "Sorry, the server's full, try another one!"?
Guy in my guild used to 6 box, he would gladly drop alts so he didn't have to work so hard. He was pleased if he got his main invited to groups where he didn't have to box. Those that box do so because there isn't the player base anymore willing to do what a group is already doing. Many times I have had people join my group and immediately tried to make the group change zones or go to another camp. If you join a ready made group don't try and change what the group is doing, it is this kind of behaviour which puts people off picking up strangers. I changed servers back when SoD went live, I found it extremely easy to get groups, but then I was one who got all progression done so I could trigger any instance, I'm still the same I don't think there is any group/raid event I cannot trigger except maybe GoD ones, i missed a few bits around that time, but I think I have most now. Fast forward to now and there is nothing which really needs help from other players to accomplish other than missions, no zones are locked and with missions being copies of raids or very annoying, I don't want to repeat them for my alts so I really don't want to be doing them for strangers. I'll help out the guild if they need a DPS but that is about it. Exp comes so fast now, many friends that I would group with aren't even logging in outside raids and those that are are doing achievements and not exping because they are maxed. I'm dreading T4, new stuff to do but no reason to do it due to lack of needing exp and AAs
I read what you typed. I know it's easier to assume someone doesn't read what you wrote than to face the facts that they don't agree with you though. Also, there is no "upvoting" here. I agree with people without having to post. It's the entire point of the "Like" system. It's not a personal affront to you so let's tone down the drama.
Well now I'm confused, you were saying how boxers negatively influenced your EQ experience in terms of grouping. There's only one of two ways they could do this: 1) Boxing makes people less willing to group, which you just admitted isn't true and has nothing to do with your point. 2) Boxing somehow magically reduces the total number of people on EQ, and thus reduces the grouping pool, which is patently false. So exactly what is your problem?
I never said it negatively influenced my experience. I said it negatively influences the game in several ways. I also never said boxing was the only issue, it's one part of a complex system, but it is definitely part of a wider problem. -it lowers matchmaking chances for single account owners, since like it or not, servers are running on some sort of soft cap, they have said as much during the last server merge, if they weren't running on any soft cap, they would have been merged -it affects content, when content is tuned during beta, many people bring their boxing circus over, which results in content that is not merely tuned to single account owners, but is impacted by boxers -the choice to not socialise with others, you no longer need to make friends, you no longer need to approach / help / group with other people, you're living on your own little island -the issue of inequality, if it's ok to complain about class unbalance, it should be ok to question multiboxing, since it greatly unbalances the playing field
1. You keep making statements about "servers are running some sort of soft cap", without any credible citation of fact. The rest of that statement contradicts itself. 2. Again a statement with no credible citation of fact. 3. A broad statement of opinion, with no credible citation of fact. 4. Class balance has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with multi-boxing. IF a class is unbalanced, it would BE unbalanced whether or not the class was being played by a single account holder or a multi-account holder. This whole thread seems to boil down to certain people complaining that they cannot find a group; a complaint that has reared its head since 1999. Attempts to lay blame for ones inability to find a group on everything other than oneself seems to be the penchant of a certain category of player. Attempting to demonize those who choose to multi-box with claims that it affects the game to the detriment of single account holders is just another attempt to blame anything and everything other than ones own shortcomings. Signed, A single account holder.
I don't know how much more simply I can put this: The only way boxers have any influence on server caps, soft or not, is if players are unable to join servers due to overcrowding. This has never been the case, anyone can join any server they want at any time, therefore boxers have no effect on restricting access to anyone else, single-account holders or not. It does not effect content. When boxers 'bring their parade' into beta testing, their results and feedback only apply to group-play, not single-play. And even then, the wide range of skill, groups, etc., nullifies any unbalancing effect boxers would have on group-content beta-testing as well. Why are you being habitually dishonest? That's really not a cool trait to have. It's kind of insulting to have you say that with a straight face, when in order to do so, you have to go over these quotes: Page 1: Page 2: Page 3: Page 4: Page 5: Page 6: Page 7: I'm asking you with as much respect as I can muster: Stop trying to claim that punishing solo players/solo boxers will somehow make them want to group, or make them better at grouping. Your allegation has been answered on every page of this thread and your failure to acknowledge it is either a sign of serious comprehension issues on your part, or a downright offensive lack of basic respect for the other people in this thread. Punishing solo players will not suddenly make them happy/skilled groupers. Reality shows it doesn't, and moreover, why would you want to group with people who hate grouping? Your statements seem to imply that you're not so much for improving your own enjoyment as much as you are for reducing others'. Kind of ironic, when you think about it.
Most the people that had a problem with the amount of boxing have mostly left the game by now. Same way if you were to eliminate boxing tomorrow most of them would be gone tomorrow as well. Someone will always have a problem with something. If people want to spend extra and play more than one toon, more power to them. Now they don't have to these days but in the past when they did it effected no one. People will either help, group, solo, molo or whatever with or without boxing and there is nothing one can do to make someone do something they don't want to do. To me the ease of which boxing takes place tells me this is one of the easiest games to play compared to other games. If this game had any sort of challenge than boxing wouldn't be so easy. It still doesn't change the fact people will do what they want to do and nothing I or anybody says will change that. You would actually probably hurt the game much more if you did try and curtail boxing of any sort. Just my opinion though Amorcen .
Just to be clear. Because I think people think I'm on some sort of crusade to stop boxing. I'm not. I boxed myself. (past tense) I also have nothing against solo players, in fact I'm surprised there isn't a zone like DSH again so melee players can enjoy themselves like casters can. What I do know is that I hated boxing, and I also know I'm not alone in that regard.There may be people who think boxing is the greatest thing ever, but try to explain to another person you play 4 characters at once because it's easier than to play with others and they will look at you funny. And they're right, you should not have to go through the length of buying multiple accounts, or even multiple PC for some people, to enjoy yourself in game. There is something wrong with EQ and it revolves around the way grouping is done and the barriers that are in place that prevent accessible match-making. And the issue is not just the boxing, the boxing is a cause and effect. The barriers to entry to form a group are much much higher than they used to be, because of a plethora of issues. Content is much much harder than it was in the past, solo content is much less accessible, people are way more spread out, the common goal is no longer just XP, it's now XP and specific items, missions, flags, etc. I mentioned it before, do people remember how accessible socialising was in the past? Grouping and socialising was extremely accessible, extremely easy and many people didn't even join a guild. When the content got harder, the game more focused on flags and loot, and less on socialising, boxing exponentially increased as a response. OMM were hugely popular, and it wasn't because of the 2AA you got in 15 minutes, anyone could get that in another zone with a group or even solo, it also wasn't because you could PL newbees with it, because lots of maxed out characters were having fun doing them, it was because the content was accessible.
Content has not gotten much harder over the years. If you pulled 4 mobs without crowd control in Lower Guk in the deeper parts of the zone, you generally died. If you pull 4 mobs now without crowd control, you generally die. The game has certainly changed, it's no longer simply a grind for levels and gear... and honestly that's more accessible, not less. Depending on your server, people do tend to group within their guild - however a lot of people did that throughout the history of their EQ career. Solo content is less accessible now? In the first few expansions there was very little solo content unless you counted wizards quad kiting, necro's kiting mobs, etc. It's pretty much the same now, just different classes can solo - and they can solo BETTER now - they can solo just about any mob in the group game. So... what exactly is your point? You hate boxing? Who cares.... Do you really think people are going to stop boxing in EQ, or any other game?
Content was exponentially easier. I could tank mobs with my druid in Kunark when the tank died. I can't do this no anymore. I could dot rott red cons in Karana with my druid without going oom. I can't this no anymore. I could quad kite mobs in HoH in PoP without going oom. I can't do this anymore. I had no activated AA, I had a handful of spells. My warrior had attack and taunt and defensive. That was about it. I have a gazillion and one activated AA now and I die on every mob without a healer. That's just the class I played, but I know it was much easier for others too. EQ was an extremely simple and accessible game back then. The only hard part was the corpse runs.
Funnily enough, many did when OMM came out. You think everyone enjoys boxing? Many don't. They do it out of necessity, not because they enjoy it. And I'm not saying there aren't boxers who enjoy it, but I know many do not enjoy it.
Thumbs up to this. The only time I have real trouble forming a group for content in EQ1 (i.e., even if I try really hard, it still doesn't materialize) is if there truly aren't enough people around who are interested in doing the content at all. Which can be a problem, but isn't nearly as often a problem in "current" or near-current content, and it's definitely less of a problem with the existence of mercs and the high degree of alt-itis and box-itis in the playerbase. EQ1 seems to have reached a point (at least in exp grind groups) where most people will cheerfully say, "Oh! Let me get on my insert class here instead!" so that they can round out the group's composition as needed. For that matter, I've become one of those people with my bard and druid box combo: even if I only bring one of them for a party, I have the option open to be either a healer with some off-DPS (on the druid), or a CC/puller/buffingwhatsit/makeshift-tank-thing-maybe (on the bard), depending on what the group needs. I think MMO gamers on average have gotten spoiled by the tendency (in other MMOs) to be able to: 1) have a party formed for them by a computer matchmaker with no effort on their part 2) run a dungeon with said party 3) win within a predictable time period, and get loot 4) all without ever needing to "put themselves out there" by asking for a party (or worse, forming one themselves) and 5) with the expectation that they will probably never see most of the people in their group again. I'm included in that group who have gotten at least a bit spoiled by it. It's addictingly anonymous and easy, and goes along great with that "We're just people riding a theme park ride together" feeling that a lot of MMOs seem to strive for. Canned experiences sell well. Unfortunately, canned experiences don't do much to foster real socialization -- which I suppose is part of what makes the games that depend on them prone to massive fluctuations in population.
