Who is this tuned for?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by CaptAmazing, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. CaptAmazing Augur

    I have to say I'm PO. Why haven't group mission like EW2 and Grelleth2 not been made easier? These are not made for groupers.

    They aren't made to be redone if you do get them done. No one wants to spent hours on GP2 a second time.

    Have any only group geared groups done any of the hard 2nd missions?

    Have you done it more than once, if you have?

    They nerd raids cause they stagnant guilds. But, groupers can go pound sand?
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  2. Braveheart Augur

    I have to admit EW2 was a bit of a challenge. We are a Raid geared guild and it still presented a challenge.
  3. gcubed Augur

    These missions are supposedly tuned for groups (in group gear) with a specific makeup.

    As an example (not saying these are the exact makeups, just and example):
    EW2 is tuned for level 100 single groupers, where the group consists of an enchanter, a shadowknight, a wizard, a mage, a bard and a cleric.
    G2 is tuned for level 100 single groupers, where the group consists of two wizards, two paladins, a druid and a bard.
    E2 is tuned for level 100 single groupers, where the group consists of three neccies, one SK, one shaman and a wizard.

    In short, if your group does not consist of an enchanter, two shadowknights, two wizards, a mage, a cleric, two paladins, a druid, a bard, a shaman and three neccies, you cannot complete progression.
    Mellifleur and CaptAmazing like this.
  4. CaptAmazing Augur

    So basically, if you're not one of those classes better reroll? Nice.
  5. gcubed Augur

    No, you don't have to reroll. As an example: Rogues and monks are quite useful for dragging corpses in Chapterhouse. They are just unwanted in the second mission. (Of course, SK's and neccies are pretty good at FD dragging too, so...)
  6. CaptAmazing Augur

    It makes no sense why they made these like this. Even UF I was able to finish. As they stand now, unless I get carried by a raid group i will never be able to do these. What fun is that?
  7. sojuu Augur

    I don't believe all content is made for everyone. Just need to work on ur character and try again or find another way.
    Starla and Daedly like this.
  8. CaptAmazing Augur

    You're right. That's why I haven't zoned into NtoV. This content was made for me. It's just not tuned correctly.
    Tensor and Mellifleur like this.
  9. Ronak Augur

    Group content needs to be tuned for group players.
    Tensor, Marton, Elricvonclief and 6 others like this.
  10. Daedly Augur

    That information is not true. It doesn't "require" those class's to complete these missions. I know I have done atleast 1 without that setup and know of plenty of others who don't use what you said. Just like the old saying there is more than one way to skin a cat. There are ways and tactics of doing these missions using other class's.

    That aside, yes this missions are really hard. I have made my attempts with fellow raiders, granted not end game raiders, but still in gear better than group gear and heavily aa'd. Part of me likes that they are hard as they are and the other doesn't. As like the OP said, it can be hard to get peeps to do these again.

    There has been lots of talk of risk vs reward in other aspects of EQ and I think this applys here aswell. Especially If this is gonna be the model EQ is going to follow with the second mission of zones. Rather than see these nerfed, I say leave them challenging but offer better rewards for doing them.

    I am thinking along the lines of gear/augs/spell/disc that only come from these missions along with some kind of currency awarded for completing the mission each that could be spent on a vendor. A vendor that would only show the items for each mission you have beaten. It seems reasonable to me since they are essentially group versions of the raids anyways. Though, if this would happen, I would also like to see that each mission give different amount of currency depending on difficulty to discourage doing them all and then only farming the easiest for the currency. Perhaps even some kind of sliding scale that would adjust depending on how many times a player has done a mission which would reset everytime you complete the full series of missions for that tier.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  11. gcubed Augur

    If a raid leader has need of a group in an event that consists of a bard, a shaman, and three berserkers, that raid leader can open the raid window and move the bard in group two to group six, the shaman in group four to group six and the berserkers in groups one, seven and three to group six. No biggie.

    The group window does not allow you to move the bard in group one to group one for one mission and then move the monk in group one to group one for another mission, then move the shaman from group one to group one for another. The group leader is pretty much stuck with the group he/she has and cannot shift it around.

    Let me put it another way. These second missions are pared down versions of the raids. What would happen if SOE did it the other way. You would wind up with a situation where every group in the raid had to have its own enchanter, its own SK, its own wizard, its own mage, its own bard and its own cleric.

    On top of that, there are a lot of established (and balanced, I might add) groups out there that have been working together for years. They don't like bouncing people from the group to replace them with something else because they are unneeded for one particular mission but another class is. So we are going to add another restriction on YOUR guild. That raid setup is what you are stuck with for the rest of the expansion. So you can take the enchanter, SK, wizard, mage, bard, cleric raid setup into a different event that requires a shaman in each group and a neccy. Have fun.
    CaptAmazing likes this.
  12. Fenthen Augur

    That's not group content. =P
  13. Fenthen Augur

    Many of these missions do not require crowd control if you have a good burn DPS or a tank/healer situation that can handle multiples. I can solo heal a raid tank with 4 mobs in Chapterhouse, so we can engage in missions normally without any issues. A group-geared tank might be able to only take two at a time, so our group format may need to be adjusted.

    I believe group missions are geared and designed with the assumption that there may be raid-geared characters out there engaging in these, and with the hope that full raid groups won't simply plow through them. They're possible but extremely difficult with 6 group-geared people of a proper mixture, and likely impossible for those that are boxing multiple group members.
    Daedly likes this.
  14. gcubed Augur

    /sigh

    My point is that there is NO proper mixture that can do ALL the missions. Not for group geared people anyway.
  15. silku Augur

    Could always leave the second mission in each zone very hard, but give it raid rewards. That way those who can do them can get raid gear. Would encourage the group player to actually do them over and over till they can purchase a raid item. Would also give raiders something to do in their offtime that still increases their raid currency.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  16. CaptAmazing Augur

    I think this point keeps getting lost in all of this. These are made for, intended for, what we paid for content for groupers. We are being locked out of it because of poor tuning. For some reason they have not looked at these and just keep making more hats!
  17. CaptAmazing Augur

    No, that just ends up being a farm to gear up raiders alts. This group content was made incorrectly. I'm asking they acknowledge and fix it.
  18. gcubed Augur

    Look, my group can do a couple of the second missions. We just can't do them all. You are suggesting that my group gets raid gear for the group missions we can handle. That is just as wrong as the current setup, if not more so.
  19. Grummy_NB Augur

    When I did these I was surprised that these weren't 12 man missions, like s few in VoA were. I still think these should be 12 person missions.
    Axxius likes this.
  20. Axxius Augur

    There group makeup restrictions are not quite as specific for each of these missions. It's more along the lines of "2 tanks, 2 dps, 1 healer, 1 cc" than specific classes. But there are indeed 2 problems with these missions:

    1. Even with the proper group makeup they are still overtuned for players geared in the previous tier of group armor (EW2 is supposed to be done by people in VoA T4 group gear? good luck with that!)

    2. I was under the impression that all group content was supposed to be doable by any reasonable group makeup that is enough to experience this tier of content, and should not require anything uncommon like having 2 tanks. A group doesn't need 2 tanks to grind xp or kill named, so normally there is 1 tank in an average group. If they suddenly need 2 tanks for Grelleth2 or EW2 - it creates all kinds of problems. If you have a group of 6 people with 1 tank - who are you going to ask to drop for the 2nd tank? And then you ask a random LFG tank to group with you just for 1 mission and then tell them you don't need them anymore?

    IMO these missions need a significant down-tuning.
    gcubed and CaptAmazing like this.

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