You keep trying to envision a solution to a problem warriors aren't trying to solve. We (nearly all of us, anyhow) are not trying to become knights. That's not a "flavor" issue, it's about actually not trying to be knights. That's not a goal. We are not trying to become sideways knights, or find a way to fight like knights, or trying to get knight-ish abilities, or work around some barrier keeping us from being knights. What we (I, some others) want is for Warlord's Resurgence to go away as a button, just become a passive boost to general toughness. Because warriors are generally tough. That's a warrior thing. We don't need in-battle powers, we have friends to battle with us because we're not stanky SKs. Plus Blade Guardian to help keep from dying at low hp, long enough for heals to get to us. Shorter reuse Shield Flash than knights have. Couple other doodads. But they're very much not the point.
Perhaps I’ve read too many p2aa posts and view the current gap between warrior mitigation and knight mitigation as a bit more of a “problem” than others view it to be. Personally I think it’s a little too close/knight favorable at the moment, but to each their own. Not trying to turn you into us, just tossing out ideas for meaningful improvements since that’s what the thread is for, eh.
Mitigation and avoidance should be in a relatively close situation for all tanks. Tank 'A' should be able to fit where Tank 'B' fits. That doesn't have to mean an exact copy/paste, but the tools available should make it possible. I would agree that knights are currently a little favorable in this arena due to the self healing they have, however when you are talking about raid bosses and tanking them, self healing is probably a marginal tool, since multiple healers are going to be healing you already. The amount of overhealing done to raid boss tanks is probably pretty phenomenal. In group situations, knights are heavily more capable with the self healing. I don't trust mercs. In the group setting, two or three mobs in camp become an uncomfortable situation with them. But I know knights who can tank 3-5 without issue with a merc healer. Give me a real healer, and the story is so different. It's like a fun thing to try and kill me with a train. I think that is where the balance needs to be addressed. We need something to be able to save ourselves for when the healer takes a nap or a dive. I don't want soloability necessarily, but I should be able to tote a merc and not worry that they will have ADHD and wipe my group because they let me die. Flash of Anger has saved me so many times from this. I know most people would disagree, but as a tank, I feel I should be able to handle 3 mobs without sneezing, and definitely 4-5 using some minor discs. I've pulled off some incredible feats blowing every disc I have with a real healer in tow, so I know how powerful we can be, but I should not require using mid to big discs on trash and xp grinding. It's also semi disappointing that I am supposed to be the toughest class in EQ, but if invis drops and I am caught by an add or two (without healer), the probability of my survival is fairly low, when knights could either avoid it altogether (FD) or pull it off with some level of certainty (self healing+maybe discs?). Again, there is a fine line in there. All of this is my perception and opinion and may not reflect the community at large. I also realize that play styles vary and some folks probably love the idea of always rotating discs. I have always viewed discs as a reactionary concept, and as such, only use them when necessary.
I would like to see more utility give to the warrior. Pretty much how it is now you either hit dps buttons in order or hit defensive/Agro disc in order. With a quick enough reaction time and awareness of your surrounds you are a good tank. I would like to see more thins to help the raid or group as a whole. With said I think or synergy needs a big look, it’s the one of the most useless ones. I could see a revamp to shielding with some or most of the downsides taken from it and targets target activation, It could also use a no fail delayed taunt on it. By adding a no fail taunt it would make it undesirable to chain it on the actual MT or make it not work on other tank classes. It would be amazing for warriors to have something like an auspice not quite as powerful but a champion in the field should be able to rally people to greater heights. Commanding voice and champions aura need to looked at for possible upgrades How about some form of AOE endurance regen for raid or group. There are so many mana regen things going on raids but endurance is still lagging behind. Make it not stack with paragon. Reaching for the sky give me focused one also. I personally love the new BP clicks, give me more threshold runes. Make them disc with shorter timers and give me both a grouping one and a raid one on the same timers and let me choose which I want to use. I don’t like having to carry two BPs around. Overall I think warriors are in a good spot for tanking and DPS. I think I, like most would like to see a bit more of a mitigation gap between us and knights but also feel that is not in the cards. Typed on my phone so many typos
This is pretty much what I was getting at. If mitigation’s going to stay where it is, I’d argue that warriors should receive a couple more active “oh crap” buttons, be they in the form of a rune, riposte/parry, absorb, heal or whatever. Something that an attentive player could use to potentially save their life in a spikey situation. Everyone has too many buttons already, but they could repurpose some of the more minor abilities if it came to it. Battleblade style regen isn’t going to really mean much compared to knight self healing in a full group or raids, and those are more important settings to balance the game around for a “classic” MMO.
I'd feel like a sexual tyrannosaurus if they reduced the cooldown on my flash of anger substantially. Probably not a good idea.
Doesn’t have to necessarily be as good as flash - just saying if we’re trying to balance against self healing (perhaps an impossible task), it would have to be reasonably impactful. I doubt you guys want any more 6th hotbar string abilities.
But Xorsasis described already having those buttons. They're discs. That's a thing, already. He described some situations that would be better handled if he were a different class, with different powers. But he's not playing one of those classes. He could. He wasn't Lady Gaga-style "born this way". He's choosing to play a warrior, which comes with other tools, better in other situations. Regen isn't going to really mean much compared to knight self healing in a full group or raids -- BECAUSE IT"S NOT MEANT TO, WE"RE NOT TRYING TO BE KNIGHTS
"I would like a strawberry" "that's not going to work very well to paint your house" "I'm not trying to paint my house" "but if you had a brush? with a handle? or maybe a roller if you don't like brushes?" "s t r a w b e r r y"
At this point I’m not even sure what you’re arguing. That people shouldn’t ask for or suggest things that stray from whatever you deem is warriorish? I’m not trying to turn you into us. I’m citing one thing a *lot* of warriors constantly point to as being out of whack between our classes balance wise and suggesting way(s) that could be bridged slightly in some way. Perhaps FQ is not a good indicator, but self healing as a balance factor is brought up regularly by a ton of people. If you’re not one of those folks, cool! Good for you. If you’re totally content with the status quo between the 3 tanks...super, more power to you. If you’re one of the stans saying they need to undo the whole knight stances debacle and balance the game around warriors having a substantially higher mitigation than knights at all times, you’re welcome to think that way, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. I hope you get whatever wishes that you deem in line with being a warrior.
As a main warrior, I personally feel were fine. And do not need any "upgrades" or "updates". Our class is able to do both raid an grp content as per designed.
Where did this come from? Did I accidentally /ignore half the forum, which you're responding to? Or is reality what I'm seeing - that you brought up warrior self-healing, you brought up tank mitigation imbalance, and have wholly fabricated a version of the world where warriors want to be knights?
No, you’re not seeing reality. These subjects were literally brought up by p2aa (post #1, mitigation), xorsazis (post #3, healing) and gotwar (post #14, regen). I responded to those posts, but none of them were subjects brought up initially by me. Perhaps you have half the thread on ignore...otherwise I don’t know what bizaro colored glasses you’re wearing that keeps triggering you into thinking I’m instigating anything. But I’m done. This is circular and a waste of both our times. Have a good Friday, Overlord.
I do so enjoy coming home and reading these forums. Warriors are honestly OP in regards to DPS atm, stick me in a full ADPS group and I'll top the pars in groups and raids. There's always areas we could see improvement and I have my own wish list of what I'd like to see in terms of abilities and disc ideas for the class, what areas we need some help and what areas we don't as well as what's rationally sound and what's just wishful thinking. I know my opinions differ than a lot of other tanks but we play differently and to each thier own so long as you have fun and the game is balanced. I might go into more depth of them, but it would be wasted on these forums sadly.
There are many warriors who feel that knight mitigation is too close to warrior's one. On raids bosses, we still have a small edge. Xorsazis is right on the fact that healers are the main responsible of you living or dieing, whoever tanks. But as knights have less mitigation tools than us, if they are able to stay alive like us MT raid bosses, it means that their self healing is also useful somewhere. This is not the closest gap in recent history. A few years ago, when knights received their 36 % mitigation disc during Rain of Fear expansion, knights were the most closer to us. At this time, knights had also their 2 dmg cap mitigation discs. Warriors didn't have Dicho Shield, No Time to bleed (came in COTF expansion) and nice mitigation tools like Warlord Tenacity or Warlord Bravery were like 1 hour refresh time versus 20 min now. Probably I would say they were likely equal to us at this time when we were not under our defensive disc. This is at this moment that not too long after warriors received defensive proficiency. The result was that warriors became the best tank in raid over knights on adds and bosses because mobs were buffed up to compensate for this. So that's why if you boost warrior passive mitigation, you will go back to the same problem. So the difficulty is to find how warriors can gain back some mitigation over knights, but without that they become "overpowered". It's interesting to read suggestions of people to see how it can be handled. For me, boosting our passive healing over time abilities is an idea. Also, feel free to still post your suggestions about various warriors improvements you would want.
