Two Mercs At Once

Maybe its just time that Daybreak creates some form of cross server grouping instances that force people into random PUG's to accomplish something for xp. Because I sure as hell can't find people to group with whenever im on.

I thought you said...

Objections to having multiple mercs (I believe these are unfounded at this time):

• Some people are afraid that even FEWER people will want to group with them.
• Some people believe that AFK farming is an issue, and that mercs might exacerbate that imagined problem.

Pros to having multiple mercs:

• Plat sink, which has been requested by players (for some reason).
• Allow even more players to complete more content and reach higher levels and join the higher level community, keeping the game alive.
• If a real life person becomes available to join the group, it is easier to drop a merc than it is to drop a boxed toon. First, there is the attachment we get from any real toon that we spend time on. If I drop one of my boxed toons, I am cutting into the progression of that toon. Second, just about everybody can play as well as a merc. But some players can box 6 toons better than other players can play a single toon. Extra mercs might make boxing a little less appealing and actually encourage grouping.

Non-issues (either irrelevant or self-correcting issues) to having multiple mercs:

• DB's loss of revenue from losing boxed accounts. This could be made up by charging for merc access (even on a monthly basis).
• "Game tuning". Mercs are less effective than boxes. There is no change needed.

The biggest arguments I gather from this thread (and from many other threads) are from people who just can't imagine any way to play the game except the one they use. And who absolutely don't want anybody to enjoy the game unless they are doing it their way. People who are stuck in 1999. EQ is not competitive, so just like your mother used to say, "quit worrying about what everybody else is doing". If you have all the done (like a lot of people do), all you are proving is that you have more free time than anybody else. Live and let live, brother.

TDS and TBM is still very challenging for a undergeared and possibly skilled 105 to do with 1 merc. I doubt anyone enjoys having to kill in the lvl 90 hotzones at 105 for xp.......

Frankly, DB's complacency in boxing and/or their failure to address or understand why people box to begin with lies at the root of this issue.

They don't understand that people don't want to wait around to try and finish supposedly easy "group" content.

They don't understand why people box. There are so many boxers on the server I play on and I can only presume it's mirrored everywhere sans TLP.

I for one, FULLY understand why they box, but forcing people to box versus just giving everyone some semblance of the same tools (albeit much weaker) alludes them.

More people would play and stay. More people would be around in case that group does form, but you know what, they don't have twiddle their thumbs waiting and can do something productive.

Just a quick note on the "AFK Play" rule: This was ninja-added (with no announcement) to the knowledge base very recently. In 17 years, EQ has been intentionally vague and inconsistent about what their rules are and how they enforce them. If you make friends with somebody who works there, you get very different treatment. If nobody notices you, you will likely never have any issues doing just about anything. It about as fair as the playground: you just want to be sure you're kissing the teacher's butt before you go teasing poor little Jeffrey for playing by himself in the sandbox.

Is that why people box? People have been boxing this game since when it was in diapers. What was their reasoning back then?

Just the fact that it's a lot easier now on one computer has opened the doors for more people to do it and they do it.

Linear progression has been around forever. Sure, it's more pronounced now and seemingly rigid, but that theme really hasn't ever changed. The fundamental aspect of progressing through certain aspects to key, gain access, whatever has been around since as long as I remember.

Boxing is a necessary evil to do things. People just weren't attuned back then or technically capable. This change just more or less sanctions it, officially, and giving everyone the same, albeit more meager version of boxing.

PUGs and "pure grind" were never popular and that was the problem. They were required, and that turned away a huge number of potential players. Some people are satisfied and even challenged by playing just one character and killing the same mobs in the exact same way for a year. And some enjoy waiting around in POK until they have enough people to group with. But most of us don't call that fun.

Allowing boxers adds life to the game and so do mercs. Failure to recognize that is more evidence of being stuck in "the good old days" of faded memory. The people who enjoy the mindless grind have the TLPs to play on. Go enjoy, but let the rest of us do something different! It does not affect you.

If EQ had remained a grind game (not that it isnt now but it is better) it would be long dead or only simulators running, it wasnt the content it was always that grind that wore out people.
It was and in reality somewhat remains the game's greatest flaw and I will be danged some actually worship it. Want mindless never ending soul crushing grinds with the marginal company of strangers just check out the TLPs pugs.
Must sound like heaven.
Ive no problem with multiple mercs but my income does not depend on that being the right thing to do nor do I know if it can be done without serious stability issues, leave that one to those that draw paychecks.
I can work with what we got now and defer to the wisdom of Rudyard Kipling and the devil I know.

@Rumblerum, I'm pretty sure we're on the same side of this debate, but why do you think boxing is an "evil", necessary or otherwise?

Tinay, I will pointedly say the issue is NOT about having two mercs, we already have that capacity. Ergo any damage done in terms of trivializing encounters is already accepted by DB.

The question is why is it ok for a 2 box but not for a solo. Please encounter trivialization and cheating are NOT affected by this question.

Well, its nothing against boxing as I used to do it; it's just a figure of speech in regards to why people do it in regards to the game itself.

I don't see people complaining about boxing, but the minute we propose that hey, why don't we give everyone those same tools without having to box, people cry out loud.

Do we all turn a blind eye to boxers? That's what it seems like in my mind considering one state is acceptable and the other, slightly weaker version, is not. I don't understand that.

People may have bitched and moaned about it, but that misery brought us together. That's how we met other people and formed friendships. Developing a good reputation so that groups would seek you out was important. That's where we spent time chatting (less button mashing so we could actually type and play). The forced social dependence is what addicted many of us to this game.

Lack of grinding and perma camped zones has removed the need for people to seek out others for groups. We're all doing things at our own point in the linear progression/check box achievements within our own sandboxed instances. Finding a group is much easier when nearly everyone needs/wants to do the same thing using limited game resources. When nearly everyone is trying to accomplish different goals, there is little incentive for random people to come and help.

Well, you bring up a good point. I think the need to box because of that has expanded (recently) not because they changed linear progression, but because the game has expanded from three expansions to a I don't how many.

The amount of different progressions, especially to new or returning players, is vast versuses trudging through Kunark > Velious etc.

It just compounds the need to box even more.

2 accounts with 2 mercs vs 1 account with 2 mercs does not even function remotely close to the same as alot of classes can be literally played to their full potential with just macro'd buttons and spells.

This started in PoP, well before mercs. The problem here is poor design decisions with a constant change in direction from the design staff, with poor, or more likely, non-existent future planning.

@Segap, I agree with your statements about the past. The world was different when EQ came out, and that old model no longer applies. It's sort of analogous to cell phones and the Internet: We no longer have to change our behavior to be included in a group. Now, there's always a group for everybody. EQ will never be like those old days because nobody will pay to play a downgrade (from contemporary offerings).

Your second paragraph, to me, screams that the REAL problem is lack of content. For the first month or two after the release of TBM, I grouped more than I had at any other time. It was the first expansion in 17 years that I was high enough level to play the expansion when it was released, along with all the other people who were doing it at the same time. But for the other 10 months, while we hope for more content, we need to be allowed to play the game in a way that is enjoyable to us. And in ways that allow more people to level up and enjoy content that CAN be played with other real people.

A box can do 4x the dps, healing, etc of a merc with little to no effort other than just mashing 1 key.

Economically speaking, I think they would make more money, directly and indirectly, by allowing such measures simply from a quantity perspective.

Now me hear me out, I've explained this before, but I will again.

I'm already at my end, I can sense it. I never see people in the zones I'm in and if I do, they are boxers (I'm speaking from a newly-minted heroic perspective).

Now by offering this, I would probably stay and play for a long time, at least to a level where there might be people to readily group. If I stay, I pay. If I don't, they collect nothing from me.

The indirect financial benefits are numerous. Assuming there might be more people like me or in similar situations, just the mere fact of having more people around directly effects those opportunities for other people to group. And by doing that, more people might be inclined to play more, pay more. It really is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

By not doing it (and me not wanting to box again), what are the cost/benefits? I didn't spend a dime to box and I have no intention to do it, so there's no money loss in that I never spent it to begin with, but they may lose me as a single-paying customer (this isn't a threat btw, just a hypothetical).

And, that self-fullifiling prophecy goes both ways. Less people, less chances, and more people might quit.

Correct. There have not been any sound arguments made here that would lead to the conclusion that allowing multiple mercs would make anybody more powerful than they already are (through boxing). Mercs are considerably less powerful than boxing, which is already allowed.