The obvious xp problem

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Veteran 99, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Xyphen Maximum Augur

    Those numbers are inaccurate. I actually tested the theories folks have outlined in the previous threads by comparatively grinding. I six box Warrior, Cleric, Rogue, Ranger, Bard and Shaman. The Warrior and Rogue used 3 group missions (EW, GD and Velks) prior to 115 and the rest of the characters only used EW and GD. All characters completed solo progression. Gear ranged from GMM, TBL T2/3 and ToV T1 (all non-raid). Ranger, Bard and Shaman were missing augs in several slots and the only characters with max AA were Warrior and Cleric.

    Grinding Tizmaks and Kodiaks in GD, here are the actual numbers for a 30 minute yield:
    • % normal XP per kill per mob level (90/10 ratio): 0.04% [112], 0.05% [113], 0.06% [114]
    • % normal AA per kill (90/10 ratio): ~7.9%
    • Fight duration on kodiaks: 19 seconds (lowest), 26 seconds (average), 39 seconds (highest)
    • Average down-time: 4-8 seconds
    30 Minute Yield No Lesson: 64 mobs, ~3.2% normal xp, 5.1 AA [31.3 days per level, 160 AA]
    30 Minute Yield w/ Lesson: 64 mobs, 6.4%, 10.2 AA [20.2 days per level, 206 AA]

    Therefore, the estimates using lesson:
    No tasks, missions, or collections: ~4 months from 111 to 115
    All solo tasks, Tier 1 missions and no collections: 38 days to go from 113 to 115

    Here are the achievement dates for my Cleric:
    LEVEL 111
    Hero of Eastern Wastes (Mission): 12/18/2019
    Hero of Great Divide (Mission): 12/19/2019
    Partisan/Mercenary of Crystal Caverns: 12/19/2019
    LEVEL 112
    Partisan/Mercenary of Great Divide: 12/20/2019
    Mercenary of Ry`Gorr Caverns: 12/20/2019
    Partisan/Mercenary of Eastern Wastes: 12/21/2019
    LEVEL 113
    Mercenary/Partisan of Kael: 1/3/2020
    Mercenary/Partisan of Velketor: 1/3/2020
    (grinding...)
    LEVEL 115: 1/09/2020
    Hero of Kael: 1/14/2020
    Hero of Velketor: 1/20/20 (also max 115)

    I'm not a superhuman. I'm not raid geared. I took over a week off in between for the holidays.
  2. Sappas New Member

    My only concern about how the exp is set up is that it is going to result in people running out of things to do rather quickly.
    In the past most people I think leveled up first and then did gear/progression. Now leveling and progression are basically the same thing. And while it is nice to get new gear, if you have already done most of your progression/leveling then it is hardly a major "to do" item.
    You can't even switch it up any and gear first and then do your leveling and progression. The only gear you can wear for the most part that is much better than GMM, etc, requires lvl 115. Not that the T1 gear isn't better, but it hardly requires a huge time sink for most since you can buy most of it dirt cheap in the bazaar.
    That said, I still like this expansion WAY WAY WAY better than the last one.
    Yinla likes this.
  3. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    You may not be superhuman but you have almost the perfect group. Many of us can't get that.

    Let's see:
    • Warrior. Best tank in the game (or at least supposed to be, I've seen SKs tank better with by taking HP from the mob)
    Because the warrior is such a good tank, that means you cast less heals, which means you need fewer healers and/or they can also do dps between heals.
    • Shaman. Mobs get slowed. Again, fewer healers / more healer dps. Also, more melee dps for group from shaman buffs.
    • Rogue. Massive dps.
    • Ranger. Massive dps
    • Bard. Boost melee dps by a huge amount.
    Unless you went with a zerker/wizard, I cannot think of a group that does more dps. In fact, your group might do more dps anyway, with bard and shaman boosting melee dps.

    So yeah, I take your "30 minute yield" with a mountain of salt.
    Vumad, Corwyhn Lionheart and Mintalie like this.
  4. Whulfgar Augur

    100% nailed it.. Not a single person can logically argue with this post and remain a credible individual.
  5. Zanarnar Augur

    The real question is, if you want to be forced to level on rails (follow a set path of quests) why not play WoW? That's pretty much the only reasonable way to level there and is one of the things I hated about it. Everquest use to have multiple paths to getting leveled up. Now its just one, follow the tasks as they lead you around by your nose.

    I can easily see why people are unhappy with this change, to try to pretend its always been this way just shows your lack of credibility. (see I can do that too? whats the point though) Basically with this expansion they've made what was a valid play style largely non-viable. What did they gain from making the change, and if they didn't gain something, why did they do it?
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Gremag like this.
  6. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Doesn't help that you cannot use the new gear until you get level 115, but the T2 missions can be rough on a tank and they cannot use the new gear to make things easier for themselves.

    Catch 22, need to do the missions to get level 115, cant do missions as new gear is needed, but cant wear new gear till level 115.
  7. Whulfgar Augur

    Nice..

    One: Never said its always been this way .. this is your way to put words into my mouth in a bait an switch .. because you can not argue against the VERY casual player who posted what I supported in the first place.

    Did they take away all xp gains per kill ? Thats weird .. cause I swear I must be bugged then just last night I caught 40% of lvl 114 in a pick up grp just killing .. no quests .. just killing.
  8. Whulfgar Augur

    100% absolutely wrong.

    T1 ToV group gear is better then TBL Adamant (Best TBL grp gear).

    Which means .. you absolutely can upgrade every single item via ToV T1 grp content gear.. then do ToV quests / missions .. Just as easily as you could at any other point in time in game.
  9. Whulfgar Augur

    ToV xp per kill IS bad .. dont try to get it twisted .. but its not soo bad as to be literally zero.

    Get out there make friends .. join their grps .. and for the love of all things holy do not split the level / AA xp .. go either 100% in one way or the other.. This will help more then you know when grinding levels.
    Smithwick likes this.
  10. Zanarnar Augur

    OK, I never said they took away all XP either. (shrug) However they did setup progression on rails and keep replying to people saying how poor the XP is that they should just do the achievements to get reasonable gains. (my argument, that you clearly ignored as you have no response to it. Progression on rails is wow or other modern mmo's, not EQ... well not the EQ I remember fondly anyways.)

    In the end, it doesn't matter to me as I'll never play live EQ again, but I really have no idea why they chose to make achievement xp the only reasonable way to level up. Short sighted, long sighted, near sighted, no sighted. I just don't get the point of the change.
    Gremag likes this.
  11. Laronk Augur


    Really in group content Knights are pretty awesome, paladins can stun a good percentage of the trash and both paladins and shadow knights have a ton of self healing. This guy's example is just tizmaks in GD. It could be done with any of the tanks easily.
  12. enclee Augur

    I think it plays out well in the short term, but like you said it’s short sighted. What’s the number one complaint people have about EQ? It’s the difficulty finding groups, and now leveling without achievements is significantly increased in time required. How are they going to handle leveling, when ToV hits the summer months and the population dips or the next expansion when ToV is a ghost town?
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  13. Laronk Augur


    I think they should add exp to all the merc tasks and partisians so people want to repeat them for aa/exp making it easier for those who don't find groups to maybe find groups.
    Fanra, enclee and Yinla like this.
  14. Whulfgar Augur

    Dont need to respond .. to some one who is crying about lack of xp .. who "claims" they quit an never again will play EQ.

    Better to leave the real responses to those of us who still pay to support the platform we still love to play. Have fun in which ever you choose to play (emulating EQ)
    enclee likes this.
  15. Gremag Journeyman


    You hit the nail on the head. DBG already put a central planner as lead in their Planetside 2 game, I am worried the DBG EQ team is following suit. Forced game play is never good game play. Game designers need to stop thinking themselves smarter than 1000's of players. Not every game designer is a Sid Meier or a Steve Jobs.

    'Know' your customer, don't say 'no' to your customer.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  16. code-zero Augur

    It's no mystery why the devs would want to encourage following a progression track for leveling. They spend a lot of time and effort developing that content with its storylines and itemization and all and from experience they know that there are people who fully intend to ignore everything that they did and who would be quite happy with some new maps with lots of camps and fast respawns all of which require no imagination at all
    Kaenneth and Whulfgar like this.
  17. enclee Augur

    Well, if people are choosing to use content that’s different from what you design then you should adapt to your customers and not expect your customers to adapt to you. It’s 20 years in, people are set with their expectations and reasons for playing EQ. Also, it doesn’t have to be a choice between one way or the other. The game can and has accommodated both methods.

    Personally, I don’t mind it but I can see where someone who prefers to grind isn’t happy with 0.030 to 0.060% per kill in new expansion zones.
    Vumad and Fanra like this.
  18. code-zero Augur

    You know, it'd probably been a good thing if for the past several expansions people DIDN'T start threads with titles like "I'm going to grind it out in <whatever 2 expansion old content>, where are you going to grind?"
  19. Zanarnar Augur

    Lifetime Sub, and I play on the TLPs (well, I was gonna but mangler isn't really doing it for me this time around so I'm probably just gonna bum around on Agnarr for now.. which is a shame since I blew about 30$ on xp pots leveling up). I just don't like live EQ. (last tried during RoF-TDS. The latter killed it for me)

    I'm also not crying, just struggling to understand the change... or rather the need for it. Since I'm not playing ATM, forumquest is how I get my moneys worth ;P
  20. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    The following is just a guess, as I really don't know what Daybreak is thinking.

    Daybreak is forcing us to slow down. And I'm sure that is their desire. They stupidly (in my opinion) think that if they make it harder, then the min/maxers and non "casual" players will have more to do. What they don't want to face, is that those players will burn through the content anyway, maxing out their level and AAs no matter what. It might take them a few weeks or months more, but it will happen. By catering to the "elite" they leave the more casuals in the dust.

    It's like making your goods luxury to appeal to those that can afford it. It works great, if you have enough rich people to buy it. But if Walmart decided to raise prices 70% across the board, they would lose 90% of their customers.

    Daybreak seems to have decided to slow down the 10%, leaving behind the 90%.
    Vumad, Corwyhn Lionheart and Mintalie like this.

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