The Necro DoT Revamp

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Hadesborne, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. Hadesborne Augur

    So, let's talk about the Necro DoT Revamp. I know people are going to a lot of troll posts to follow. People will post pictures of some horse being beat or some other nonsense. Yeah, funny stuff. Also, people will say that BECAUSE we have not heard anything from the devs on this that the devs are actually "stating" to us that this will never happen. Yet, I cannot help but think that it may still be on their to-do list. It may just be down the list a bit. After 3 years of waiting for something that was promised to be done, and then given to EVERY other DoT class, I must ask: "Devs, is this still a possibility?"

    By actually performing this revamp to every other class and not the necro class, you have increased the viability of these other dot casting classes and set the necro class behind even more. There already was not a great reason to "Main" a necro due to the lack of synergy in the grouping game with their core mechanic. (By the way I will head off the slew of necros, that don't understand what they are saying, that will post how they are amazing in groups and get groups all the time) Necro mains were willing to overlook this due the necro's wide skillset they could employ as well as the good amount of DPS that class could dish out on raids compared to other classes. Now, unfortunately, the necro class is woefully behind when it comes to raid DPS and that is even with battle meming and stacking around 1-2 full bars of dots. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to play a necro at a high level in raids. I have found myself casting far more spells than any other caster throughout the entire raid, and yet i do far less DPS. Is this fair?

    Devs please help.
  2. Monkman Augur

    I actually think the lack of dev comment is an indicator that it is not off the table. They are quite quick to comment “no” on other requests or questions about future changes to gameplay. I just don’t think they are in a position to give a timeline for when the changes will appear.
  3. Prathun Developer

    This question came up several times in the recent AMA. Collated our answers here and despite my best judgment, didn't snip out Alan's responses. ;)

    3. Necro dot revamp, ever happening? Other revamps seemed so successful.
    Jonathan: When time and resources allow, we will tackle consolidating necromancer DoTs.
    Ed: What Jonathan said. It’s important and also much too risky to rush.

    28. Necro dot revamp please
    Alan: /sigh. I have given my answer to this way down below. It's my trick to make those of you asking the same question over and over again read the whole thing to find my answer. So there!

    34. It's been said twice, but why haven't Necro dots been re-worked? They are so far behind every other dps class…
    Alan: Actually, it's been asked three or four times since the bottom. Keep reading for an answer. Next time, don't bother asking a question that has already been asked several times. It's just mean and annoying!

    51. Necro dot revamp?!?!?!?!
    Alan: see below

    59. Necro dot update going to happen?
    Alan: We still want to do it. But you know as well as I do that necros are by far the most complicated DoT class and will take a huge chunk of time to revamp. As soon as that time can be scooped out of our spell guy's schedule, we'll do it. Unfortunately, it probably won’t be this year.
    Ed: It’s the most complicated class to consolidate, so it needs the most time. Doing it poorly is worse than not doing it at all.

    Edit: formatting
    snailish and Yinla like this.
  4. Sheex Augur

    Since everyone seems to be ignoring the Ever-Favored class with these repeated questions...what about the SK dot revamp? Should be much simpler, and we too have been waiting all this time~
  5. Hadesborne Augur

    Thank you Prathun! Your communication on this is so greaty appreciated.

    As far as the SK spell revamp, a great portion on their dots are necro dots as well.
  6. ~Mills~ Augur

    Appreciate you taking the time to reply and being as forthcoming as you can but its been 3 YEARS! This is exactly why many of us said right from the start why aren't you starting with necromancers first. Priorities change, resources change, time, stuff, etc you don't make the problem worse both by revamping others first and by continually adding stuff that requires npc buff slots and just keep saying well we would like to when we can but time, resources, etc are now all gone to tackle it. How about on live since this is going to be a level cap increase you start with those dots and only those dots. Then circle back to older dots when there is time, since most of these TLP concerns didn't even exist when this entire process started.
  7. Aegir Augur

    Maybe they are revamping the other class DoTs first to see how they Impact the game, thus gain experience on how to work the Necro Revamp without having to re-tweak it the whole next year before hitting the spot.
  8. Dythan Augur

    Maybe it's taking longer and more manpower then they thought, to disable lev in Plane of Fire. Devs are working on the higher priority stuff first.....
  9. ~Mills~ Augur

    They winged it without understanding much and then got gun shy and now they "don't have the resources" at this time. Some classes dots are still broken to powerful because they don't fully get it and others got shafted with mana costs that shouldn't be. They had ample input and requests to help from very very knowledgeable people who offered to even just chat with them some before heading down the same path. Yet they repeated the same errors 4 or 5 times in a row.
    Spellfire likes this.
  10. Hadesborne Augur

    Actually this process was started in Feb. 2016. Phinny was well underway by that point. Ragefire and lockjaw were even further. I just needed to point this out to keep the facts straight.

    I understand that people will complain that it has been 3 years and I want to jump in and say the same things, but I will suppress the complaints and say: I just hope that in the future, there will be a time when this can be prioritized. AND that I really, REALLY appreciate the communication from the Devs on this subject.
  11. ~Mills~ Augur

    Correct but there were not as many tlps as there are now, others classes dots hadn't been changed yet and many other tlp changes hadn't taken place or were in a different state then they are now. This started as a live problem and should start there and if that means ignoring dots from 110-1 for now because they just don't have the time then so be it.
  12. taliefer Augur

    cant really blame other players for asking about this over and over when its such a big deal.

    can also understand wanting to take the time to do it right, and not having the time. but maybe im missing something obvious, cant you do it one line a time? specifically, i cant really understand why the necro fire dot line(boil blood, etc) cant be condensed in the same way the druid magic dot line (stinging swarm, etc) was. both are simply dot lines with a large negative resist check.
  13. a_librarian Augur

    What I've read into the dev comments is they haven't started the process. I think the most likely way this gets done in the next 12-18 months is if some insane galaxy brained person does all the math and design work behind this as a proof of concept and the devs implement changes based on it
  14. Genjo New Member

    What exactly is the Necro DOT issue? I am sorry just want to be informed.
  15. ~Mills~ Augur

    On live its requiring 18 different spell sets for a few different weaves of 16 plus dots to be competitive with peers all while dealing with an ever shrinking debuff cap with continual additions.

    I imagine on the TLP its very similar with amount of dots required and keeping pace with other classes who have had melee revamps or other classes who did already have dot revamps handled. In an era where there might not even be enough dots to stack to keep up so your running 10 or 14 or whatever and still losing out in any setting.
  16. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Their DoTs stack is the issue. They also gave Necromancers several lines of an AA that innately extend all their DoTs by several ticks.

    This means that Necromancers are able to maintain about 20-30 DoTs on bosses. NPCs have Debuff limits already meaning you cannot have more than about 2-3 Necromancers in your raid before their DoTs start bouncing and not taking hold because there are too many Debuffs on a boss. It also impacts every other class that uses Debuffs.

    To resolve this they need to do what they did with every other classes DoTs. Make DoTs within the same line of spells not stack with each other, and increase the damage and mana cost of the spell so that you can basically cast just the highest level one and spend the mana and do the damage that you would’ve had you casted the highest level as well as the next 6 lower level versions of the spell (which Necromancers currently are doing).

    The problem with this is it basically involved revamping hundreds of spells or about half the Necromancer spell book and is very difficult to see how it will balance out when all is said and done. Really what they need to do is just go 1 DoT at a time and fine tune it. Start off with the Pyre line and see how that goes, adjust accordingly and move on to the next line.
  17. Accipiter Augur

    In my (considerable) software development experience, the length of time an issue has been pending only bumps it up the priority scale infinitesimally.
  18. Forcallen Augur

    Hopefully the bolded above doesn't apply to the new dots to come for 111+. Aristo has to spend the time creating, tuning, etc those new dots anyway so being June I don't see how you guys can't find a way to get him more time or help so that come October or November there is time to make adjustments to those dots to at least get the process moving.

    I offered years ago to help create the data for necro dots as long as it wasn't just going to be trashcan'd or waste my time (even did rk 3 for all new dots for RoS beta as an example in the beta forums). In an attempt to get the necro dot revamp done well and avoid all the mistakes you guys repeated for every other classes dots. IE we just want to use less dots and ramp up a bit faster but not have a complete overhaul of the class and create a situation of knee jerk nerfs over something being tuned in a manner it never should have been to start.
  19. yerm Augur

    Necros are SO weak right now that its actually really sad and reflects a pathetic lack of concern on the dev team. It's actually far more reaching and brutal than how rogues are on classic start tlps but people don't stick it out long enough to see the lull. Meanwhile the class requires absurdly more complex effort to still be behind.

    Do SOMETHING for necros.
  20. Toruch Fleshrot Augur

    My necro needs some luvin.

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