The Elephant in the room

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by demi, Jul 30, 2021.

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  1. Alena Elder

    It is always interesting how people speak about unfair advantage. This game is not only about comparing the p.length. Some people like me are playing pure for fun. I don't need to have some "better" gear "than" the next player in town. I only want to solve some nice quests, see my toons grow, talk to others and help from time to time other people who struggle more than I do.

    Perhaps some who are so eager to agitate against everybody who is not playing there style should think about, that not everybody is playing TLP to be "better than" somebody else or playing "raiding game" to be able to stroll around with the latest acquisition or are in competition with others. Heck I even didn't set up a trader in bazaar for ages because it is boring stuff and does not enhance my gaming experience. Reading things generalized about having unfair advantage makes me sometimes laugh while I think about.... which advantage COMPARED to others while I only play my personal game "against nobody" but mostly "WITH somebody else". I pity some of the guys who are so afraid being in worse condition than the next "so-called friend"...

    Some are simply playing their personal game, group from time to time to have some nice talk with others while playing and give a "something damp" about comparing or improving self-esteem.

    Botters who are always harrassing people like Ewwq on Antonius Bayle are surely a thorn in the side of every server but as long as they let me play my game and don't block quests or friends then I could not care less. If I lack time then I can even buy in bazaar some nice stuff. Not everybody is student or "social burden for the state" and has so much time to play - some simply want to have some relaxed time with a game and/or a talk with other fellows while playing. And if some have the opinion that "time sinks" or "stupid repetitive game mechanics" are a "challenge" then I am sure - it is only one thing: they have done that stupid stuff and want to have the pride walk. They can have it. I don't care about these people either. I want to have fun and therefore I pay for the fun, not for a wrist torture. And if this means that I pay for 6 accounts to box a whole group and some additional stuff to handling them without much hazzle, then I will do it. And I hope that I never meet some of these egomaniacal antisocial guys in this "so-called social game" here who are so eager to agitate so much generalized about EVERYBODY who is boxing (non-afk-play with tools)...

    Some are simply boxing that game RELAXED and if third-party tools help to avoid a wrist restrain because that game has some stupid repetition idiocy then so mote it be. And as long as there are no active hacks on the client done or as long as no afk-play (=botting) is done then DGB is OK with it and everybody should be ok with boxers (non-afk play with more toons) on live servers too which is not forbidden either. On TLP some of the mentioned tools are not working as far as I know. And if used on TLP then DGB knows the guys because they got the code to monitor it. And if that game is not playable anymore without all the tools then this game is dead because it is stone old, graphics sucks, audio sucks, bugs sucks and usability sucks. These tools bring back a bit usability and excitement which has gone lost in the last decades.

    I had some nice talks in the past about this issue with a couple of GMs. And I am always surprise what people are writing BS here in the forum about rules and bylaws...

    And it is more funny to see the hypocrites who are agitating against "third-party tools users" while they are clearly using them by themselves, visible in their playfield or even on video in this forum. Know the guys ingame and inforum and reading their posts sometimes leaves me amazed and sorry for them...

    And if I remember back in my raiding times - I met a couple of players who are simply unfriendly selfish guys I never want to meet again. Boxing let me decide to play any time with anybody or nobody and if my job does not allow a longer time frame then at least I don't have players who behave like drama queens or are insulted only because somebody has to stop playing every 10 minutes because of some real life duties... think about that...

    oh.. and I don't care about the guys here without backspine who shiver while others talk about "third-party-tools"... I simply make my statement.... :p
  2. Velisaris_MS Augur

    I started to type out a response to your pathetic screed, but you know what? You're just not worth the effort, and everything you said is complete nonsense. The fact that you so vigorously attack someone who says they want to get rid of the cheaters tells me all I need to know about the kind of person you are.
  3. Unoneemoose Played since Beta. Seen it. Been there. Done that.

    yes, everyone does. youve shown letting your ego override your common sense is yours. feel free to try to correct me yet again, further proving my point.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    Annoying thing about this situation is that by reporting the people they think are botting, Velisaris_MS is doing everything reasonable they can to address the issue as a player. In some PvE games (and previously in EQ) it would be reasonable to derail a bot crew, if only temporarily, by introducing a little chaos in their group by training them.

    However, in EQ, training is against the rules and the GMs are so under-funded that they can't do much more than respond to rock-solid evidence of rule breaking. So the bot teams game the system by knowing how to prove they were trained and thus use GMs to defend their operation.
  5. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Sometimes I wish I could take the situation into my own hands (training or DPS race a bot crew) but I do not want to risk a suspension (for training or harassment) or a bad reputation (ironically, the botter may blast you in General).

    Credit to the GMs for responding to petitions swiftly. I have had a faster or more effective response by updating/reopening the petition after the canned response. Be sure to explain what is suspicious (simultaneous sitting/running, spell casting pattern), how the camp can be exploited (TS items or non-lore Type 5 augs), how you want to avoid conflict (by petitioning), and how the botter is locking down/disrupting gameplay for others.
    Skuz likes this.
  6. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Hmmm..... No I rarely ever let my ego get in the way of things. Feel free to continue messaging me I am happy to reply :)
  7. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I believe a hard stance on cheating and toxic playstyles, is necessary, if Darkpaw want this game to survive in the long term.
    An mmorpg with a tainted reputation is almost impossible to save.

    Everytime they start a new server, veteran oldtimers return, only to drop the game again after 2 weeks, due to their play-experience being ruined by cheaters and people not respecting the original "play-nice-policy" from the good old days.

    That is what will eventually kill Everquest!
    Sokki and Nennius like this.
  8. demi Augur

    this coming from someone who's own guild condones usage of 3rd party software I s bx to be specific .. who knows if M q is being used or not but your own forums speak louder than ever..

    if your really against cheaters then how can you be in a guild that allows the usage of said 3rd party software ? if i was so adamant about cheaters and thought that all 3rd party software is the root of all evil i would not align myself to guilds or friends who use such software ..

    Oh and I know in your rules section you state that using any cheats is against guild policy , however this is a snippet from your forums :

    « on: May 05, 2021, 07:06:06 pm »
    Hi All

    Loads of [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] sites who seem to avoid explaining the basics. I have a very simple team atm Monk + mage. I want mage to be primary and monk dps.

    I have managed to setup keys so monk will heal / fd/ assist by pressing button on the mage (eg) 1 to heal on monk and then using 1 via [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] to activate 1 on monk and hey presto heal. Done the same for burns.

    For some weird reason I cant get earthforce (EF) to work. I have F assigned to EF and pass F via [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] as before but zip happens

    I also can't seem to get the monk mash bar to work via mage. NUM 6 is my mash key on monk and passing this down via [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] has zero effect.

    I also cannot get an [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] key press to activate a particular hotbutton on a hotkey toolbar. I need to assign some key combo to the hotbutton on monk and use that via [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] [works for burn but not mash bar of earth force]

    This has to have been solved .... anyone care to enlighten me ?

    oh and I love this one ..

    • God-like Member
    • [IMG]
    • Posts: 2.047
    • Keeping rezzers busy since 2003...
    Re: [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] help

    « Reply #6 on: May 09, 2021, 01:43:25 am »

    Afaik, [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] is not a cheating tool. It allows you to send key-presses to boxes in the background, and has some fancy picture-in-picture functionality.

    But you still have to control everything manually and provides no information, not present in the standard client, which makes [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] ok.
    « Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 01:49:16 am by Jumbur »

    forums edited the actual software used but its I s bxr ..

  9. Hora New Member

    I think you need to find a different scapegoat. I was told that none of the special tools or whatever work on the TLPs (by design).

    So if you can't blame it on the scary cheatermonster, then what's the reason? Maybe the veteran old timers remember that even with some QoL improvements this game is a slog most of the time.
  10. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I never said I S Boxer was cheating, and as you can see, we allow it in my guild. M Q and botting will earn you a guildkick however. Some of the guildies use GINA and other parsers, but it is not required on raids, as long as you can react correctly to emotes.

    Are you saying there is no botting or cheating on the new TLP servers?
    I am playing on live so I just assumed it was a problem on TLPs too, based on TLP forum posts.
    It would be nice if I was just wrong and misinformed. :)

    It would be even more nice, it they*) didn't work on the normal servers too!

    *) I assume "special tools" here, refer to M Q and "harry potter"-maps and whatever people use for botting...
    Raccoo likes this.
  11. Tucoh Augur

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  12. Accipiter Old Timer

    People can and do cheat on the TLPs. Extensively. The exception is Rizlona where those tools are allowed and using them is not cheating. On the TrueBox TLPs, the real cheaters acquire versions of the software that will run on TrueBox despite the speed bumps put in place to prevent it. The honest folks just get penalized with TrueBox.
  13. demi Augur

    So let me get this straight .. you want a hard stance on cheating . you dont think I s bxr is cheating but M q is ? because i s bxr doesnt automate ?

    I dont use M q but if I did and i'm at the keyboard would that be ok or because that software can be used for evil and some peeps do, it should be banned and not allowed ?

    I agree that a harder stance needs to happen but for the afk'ers and bot armies NOT for the casual joe/jane who are always at the keyboard .. im serious that the average EQ player is prolly hitting 50+ they/we have issues that come with age .. should we give up the game we love and have supported for the last 21+ years . some of us are home bound cant or dont go out due to circumstances .

    when i first started playing back in 99 i could play for 20+ hours straight now i cant sit and play for more than a few hours and even those few hours i play my wrist and fingers and eyes hurt . being able to use i s bxr allows me to control most of my box'd crew with just a few key presses (broadcasting ftw).

    I'm sure there will always be nay sayers and will say if your that old or older you should retire from EQ if you have to use a 3rd party software to play any game ..
  14. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Correct, and because I S boxer doesn't let you warp around or lets non-tracking classes track. I S boxer does not affect the game, it merely affects how windows handles the game... and that makes it OK!
    Why would someone use M Q if I S Boxer is allowed, if not for the cheating options that M Q provides?
    And yes, M Q usage should be a banable offence.
    Raccoo and Khat_Nip like this.
  15. demi Augur

    well just speculation cause i dont use m q , however I've heard it has an autofollow that is way better than EQ ?
    thats really all ive heard about m q .. I know (cause ive seen) toons auto engage mobs and auto pull from far away . now that I dont approve of ..
    also from what i heard here in this thread that it has a live map mode or something where it show's you where every mob is live, that also I think is wrong and of course warping to said mob .. so i guess ive heard or seen alittle more about m q ..

    maybe someone who has more experience with m q would like to share why they prefer m q over i s bxr that cant be done with i s bxr and isnt full automation .. ?
  16. demi Augur

    also most of these burn em at the stake for using 3rd party software bundle i s bxr into that category as well .. they dont want any 3rd party software that makes it easier for the end user.. even if it does not automate ..
    Jumbur likes this.
  17. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I believe that Darkpaw intentionally made(or at least keep) autofollow bad, because they want diminishing returns on mass boxing. The spirit of the game is not about generals leading wast personal armies around in solitude.
    It is about cooperation.
    A bad autofollow is one of their gentle "nudges" in that direction. I think most people accept "small scale" boxing nowadays.

    Large scale boxing is difficult and cumbersome by design.
  18. Tappin Augur

    Here we go again with, since I use this third party software it most not be cheating nonsense.
  19. Nennius Curmudgeon

    As tempting as it might be to think this, it should be remembered that autofollow had issues when the game launched. Long before boxing was even a concern. Now if you were to try and argue an ulterior motive for why it hasn't been improved in recent years you might gain some traction with your argument.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Jumbur like this.
  20. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    True, originally it was probably just technically difficult to implement correctly, which is why I added that parenthesis. :) I don't think the devs anticipated boxing at all back then.

    They probably could fix it now, if they wanted too. Mercs can often stay close to you (or are allowed to warp to you if it fails), The fact that autofollow doesn't work the same way, is a deliberate choice.
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