Test Update 02/10/16

Since people don't seem to know how SPA 168 works (I'm sure warriors do!)

Lets say a mob has a MIN_DAMAGE of 100 and a BASE_DAMAGE of 250. Normal min hit would be 100 + (1 * 250 + 5) / 10 = 125 (all int math, + 5 gets us the rounding we need, unsure how they do it exactly, but rounding like this matches my parses) and max hit 100 + (20 * 250 + 5) / 10 = 600.

Then lets get DP with SPA 168 with a base1 of -30.
Min hit = 100 + ((1 * 250 + 5) / 10) * (100 + -30) / 100) = 117
Max hit = 100 + ((20 * 250 + 5) / 10) * (100 + -30) / 100) = 450

I am pretty sure that they said aggro was being counted twice on spells that "did damage" AND "had a hate override". SK terror spells were actually improved vs. the other ones.

Wait a sec, so your agenda is just to seek a kind of "revenge" because you think warriors hated mages and made them nerfed ? Rofl.

No, I'm just not as forgetful as others when it comes to what the Warrior community has done in the past. But I've long moved past Mages and Necromancers being the targets of developer hate, and have taken both a Warrior and a Knight up to 105 in the past year, and am, of course, waiting to see which I ought to continue using.

If all tanks do have the same defensive skill, then thats my bad, not at my home comp so cant check, and I thought there was a diff.

I have plenty of log files showing while running unholy getting hit for 50k+ 4 times in a row in the same round. Now I am not the most geared SK, but running 204k hp and 15k ac with all my bells and whistles, yeah sadly I do get rounded often, even with 36% disc running. Maybe its just terrible luck on my part.

as for the hp, yeah I just took a quick look at magelo based on hp and saw the 15% difference, but even 10% makes a big difference and is the difference between being rounded and not. Then you put in the fact that you will get another couple K from cleric aura, that makes it even wider.

A warrior created a thread a while back about how stout and fg along with def prof clocked in around the same mitigation as LS because it pushed the DI spectrum down so far. SK with challenge get 1/3 the benefit that warriors do from stout + fg, it also has stacking, cast time, and resist issues, something that the war ones don't have.

Warriors have poorly documented advantages that are not being taken into account in these discussions, mainly because the calculations required are harder to understand, for example how armor under soft limit affects damage take. The formula for that has never been revealed by the developers but discussions have been had on these forums and others about it, for example: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/armor-class-and-you.160

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-acv2.210028/#post-3078126 only thing missing is caps/returns at all levels

Simply put, when Elidroth gave Warriors Defensive Proficiency back in 2014, he was going past 13+ years of Everquest tradition during which Warrior balance against Knights were strictly in the "innate" advantages they had, and the existence of Last Stand. To a degree, it was a positive change because Warriors were indeed becoming too one-dimensional - ie they were only used for Last Stand. But Elidroth went too fast in the other direction and it resulted in a massive amount of change in class balance in a short period, resulting in today's situation.

All of this is primarily to just remove the difference created by Elidroth's changes in 2014. Although it feels as though it was so long ago, as a matter of fact, the huge distance that opened up between Warriors and Knights was recent.

Thanks, but do we have a post explaining the function for "mitigation armor" and damage take?

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...e-melee-still-crap.224298/page-3#post-3297852 is the closest we got.

Okay, so we don't know their specific function, unfortunate, because it makes it so much harder to talk about these issues.

Just a minor change: it actually began in Veil of Alaris in 2011.

Uhhh, there's like 1-2 guys saying "hahaha we need it, how does it feel!".

Everyone else is saying they think it is probably overshot in its current form, but given it's been in game for like negative two weeks so far, it's hard to comment with a lot of specifics. But by all means, keep foaming at the mouth, panicking, and accusing SKs of somehow duping the devs and downplaying their awesome raid desirability. It's so productive.

Pet aggro is just as bad. Couple of dots and the necro is tanking. I thought the February patch was supposed to fix the January patch? Which destroyed all the work in the December patch? Whatever you did for February HAS NOT worked, and needs REVISITING again, and lets be honest, you need to get this fixed fast if you want to keep individuals playing.

Linking the swarm pet timers change? You have just destroyed the group and soloing necro. Swarm pets bring dps to a group (as kills are too fast for dots, and we can only cast 3 of our 5 switfs since they share timers too) and allow us to solo, since our main pet is a LOT weaker than mages and beastlords so we need 2 or 3 swarms to solo since everything summons. Necro is supposed to be the soloing class after all. What is the justification for this, other than to help drive EQ into the ground and cripple your income (your wages) through more people quitting?

GoDR/F2P change? You just destroyed the raiding necro. Flesh to poison was designed to work with GoDR to help with the insane number of hoops we have to jump through to get twincast dots. F2P is now useless and our burn is severely crippled. What is the justification for this, other than to help drive EQ into the ground and cripple your income (your wages) through more people quitting?

Manaburn change. Ok, this was expected, and is the only change acceptable.

Nerfing down DPS on any class just means they will have to nerf the hps down on raid mobs sooner than they would have otherwise to let the other half of the guilds have a chance at beating them.

No need to mess with necro DPS they are self limiting on raids. if you have 3 or more you have to stop other classes from dotting to make room for necro dots and with 4 necros and debuffs that's about it. So no matter what it looks like there is a max amount of DPS a necro can contribute on a raid.

They are the balance to the burst DPS of wizards. Between Mages, Necros and Wizards it should be balanced such that a sustained level of DPS can be achieved with occasional burst higher as wizards and mages abilities repop. IE wizards and mages start strong and as they begin to slow down Necros get ramped up and keep things going.

Well, see, the problem with that ideal is that currently Wizards are the best spell DPS in just about any situation.

To be honest there is no reason for a Knight not to be able to tank like a Warrior, at least for a limited time..A knight should fully be able to be integrated within a Warrior lineup, even if it's for a 3 minute duration.

Kinda funny you see the Warriors here talking about niche's but adamantly deny other classes have such a thing..I could bring up a few said classes but I don't think I really have too.

No changes have been done to the Warrior class, why are you guys even here?

I think the more serious change here that we should be upset about is that they are nerfing Necro DPS, the MB nerf probably should have been done a while ago..But the other nerfs they are throwing out are kinda harsh..You guys are supposed to be the master of sustained DPS..

I guess burstained ftw now?

Why is it that a majority of the warriors on these boards view other classes getting something as a nerf to warriors? That is not a nerf....at all.

Hell, as a magician if they made earth pet potions I would be perfectly fine with it. Then all of the anti-mage crowd could see how limited pet tanking really is

Knight's Sedulity does stack with Defensive Proficiency and Unholy Guardian. (I didn't test UG + DP stacking, but they shouldn't)

Okay, first some math. I did these fights naked with minimal buffs. (I ended up getting SHM buffs to boost my endurance so I could cast UGD but those don't really affect these parses) Also no extra AAs but some Innates that I bought to try to boost my naked endurance to cast the disc

Test Sixty Five has a MIN_DAMAGE of 128 and BASE_DAMAGE of 251 (at least the one beating on me) So the formula MIN_DAMAGE + (Roll * BASE_DAMAGE + 5) / 10 (all int math so truncation)

Parsed numbers: 153, 178, 203, 228, 254, 279, 304, 329, 354, 379, 404, 429, 454, 479, 505, 530, 555, 580, 605, 630. (http://i.imgur.com/MWukhWU.png)

So now for predictions flushing out the formula to account for Defensive SPA

MIN_DAMAGE + ((Roll * BASE_DAMAGE + 5) / 10) * (100 + SPA(168)) / 100 + 1)

Predicted numbers with -5 SPA 168 (Knight's Sedulity)
152, 176, 200, 224, 248, 272, 296, 319, 343, 367, 391, 414, 438, 462, 487, 510, 534, 558, 582, 605

Parsed numbers http://i.imgur.com/KvrVKEt.png (which all but 1 matches? not sure about that, close enough)

Now KS + UHD if they stack -41 168:
Predictions: 143, 158, 173, 188, 203, 218, 232, 247, 262, 277, 291, 306, 321, 336, 351, 366, 380, 395, 410, 425

Now if they don't match -36 168:
145, 161, 177, 193, 209, 225, 241, 257, 273, 289, 305, 321, 337, 353, 370, 386, 402, 418, 434, 450

Parse: http://i.imgur.com/5lEixRm.png which matches if I had -41 SPA 168 which means they stack

Now what about DP + KS maybe there is a special case!

-30 predictions: 146, 164, 181, 199, 217, 234, 252, 269, 287, 304, 322, 339, 357, 374, 392, 410, 427, 445, 462, 480

-35 predictions: 145, 161, 177, 194, 210, 227, 243, 259, 275, 292, 308, 324, 340, 357, 374, 390, 406, 422, 439, 455

Parse: http://i.imgur.com/S9s85nO.png which matches -35

Feel free to continue all discussions here.

For any bugs, please post them in this new thread to help keep things organized so that we do not miss anything.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/test-update-02-10-16-new-bugs-only.230718/